[SPOILERS - PBEM17] novice and spaceman - Suryavarman of India

[novice]

Chat with Darrell:

me: 4v1 is a bit too much for us
we were rather looking for a shipbuilding partner so we could both tech deeper into the tech tree
Sent at 18:44 on Tuesday

darrelljs: tbh I have limited interest in attacking rego
there doesn't seem to be any upside to it for us
I'd surely cheer you on

me: well you're closer to him geographically than we are

darrelljs: really?
we are a ways away

me: I think so?

darrelljs: I think are nearest cities are probably 15 tiles apart, at least

me: Jamaica -> T-Hawk
and Horse Island -> Pindicator

darrelljs: I guess I don't count horse island
but yes jamaica to t-hawk is probably closest

me: your square is closer than our square

darrelljs: I guess
Sent at 18:52 on Tuesday

me: so the only one you would attack long term is us?
Sent at 19:03 on Tuesday

darrelljs: sorry, was in transit
no, you are not the only one we would consider attacking, just the most likely one :P
I thik the diplo right now is in a big state of flux
I could easily see you going from adversary to ally, and I could see existing allies becoming adversaries

me: good to know

darrelljs: tbh the biggest roadblock is probabkly my earlier action, and fear that you hold a grudge and look for a chance to stab me (not that it wouldn't be justified)

me: that should be nothing but a little speed bump
of course we wouldn't stab
what kind of payback would that be

darrelljs: yeah
I'm pretty convinced you are taking the high road

me: besides, we already vented by razing hong kong

darrelljs: yeah
I hold no grudge over that
obviously
well look, I'll give you somethign a little more iron clad then
but it has to stay between us, okay?

me: sure

darrelljs: so my understanding from dave was the whole rego thing was your idea
I wasn't very keen on it, as I mentioned

me: kind of

darrelljs: but I can understand how you woul dbe reluctant and want to back out if I am not joining in
so, either I can join in with a llmited role for limited rewards, or I will bow out but give you a guarantee I won't exercise our NAP while you are at war

me: but that still feels like a 4v1

darrelljs: well if I don't join in at all its 3v1
Sent at 19:15 on Tuesday

me: tbh my fear is that you have game-long deals with Dave and Shoot

darrelljs: I do not have game long deals with dave or shoot

me: phew

darrelljs: I don't even have active deals with them that differ substantially with what we have
what I do have wtih dave and shoot is some goodwill. being misled by dave on his tech path kind of got rid of some of that
off the record
I'm not krill, I'm not going to go and attack him
but i'm not really going to trust him anymore either

me: he wasn't supposed to get music?

darrelljs: He told us he was doing an astro beeline

me: seems reasonable with you getting lib

darrelljs: Yeah

me: astro is what he should have done

darrelljs: Franly the cost of getting lib the way I got it was pretty marginal, the main reason we did it was taj
settled an ice ball, delayed oxford, etc.

me: so one ga for each
and MoM for shoot

darrelljs: right, he got the music GA, we knew about that one
I did not know about MoM
I had a vague plan to chop it on the iceball island when it was still there that obviously didn't pan out
Sent at 19:20 on Tuesday

darrelljs: (no grudge against shoot over that, he just won the race)
back in 10
Sent at 19:22 on Tuesday

[novice]

In actual game news, we screwed up slightly on tundra island and let Net Borrower grow into unhappiness (I did the same thing while shadow playing). So we should let the city be unhappy for one turn while the chariot from Financial Trap scoots down to take up MP duty.

It might be worth building the National Park in Financial Trap, by the way.

Continuation of my chat with Darrell. It turns out Dave researched Nationalism and finished the Taj Mahal with his Great Engineer. Good play by him. His relations with Darrell went from Friendly to Cautious as a result, though.

19:39 darrelljs: ok back
7 minutes
19:47 me: yeah I've been busy tending babies
19:48 we're three techs from Rifling so I guess I was looking for opportunities, didn't quite pan out though
darrelljs: I guess I don't understand?
19:49 From what Dave told me attacking rego was your idea
I don't see what's gone wrong with that plan tbh
19:50 me: really I just approached Dave asking for boats
darrelljs: oh
well, I don't see why he wouldn't give you boats if you still want them
as long as yo uagree not to use them against him
19:51 me: yeah thats my latest counterproposal
19:52 but it seems we have a window of opportunity but no viable targets
darrelljs: dave understood that rego was your target
he could have been confused I guess
19:53 me: no I did say rego was a possible target
(in confidence, btw)
darrelljs: oh
oops
I guess he got a bit eager
19:54 me: but the main point was to buy some boats
yeah, no worries
19:55 I just figured we could skip astro for a while and buy boats instead
and then maybe even use them offensively
darrelljs: EI can be used that way
before frigates
dave's UU plays well now and his UB plays well in a bit, and for the rest of the game
19:56 I don't know why I let krill talk me into egypt
me: StM has an extremely militarized tech path, btw
but I guess you wouldn't know, oops
darrelljs: no, I don't
yet
19:57 I think we get alpha in 2 turns or so
I do believe he has access to caravels
I thought I saw one
it was him or you
me: and knights
darrelljs: well it was in the tentacle area so it could be anyone
without iron?
me: and jans
darrelljs: that's going to be a challenge
jans yes
me: he has iron from dave
darrelljs: I figured when he lost his iron he'd go hard for jans to get it back
19:58 really?
so dave is out of iron then?
or did he have asecond source?
me: popped a second source
19:59 on an island we conceded to him in exchange for ob
darrelljs: oh that's funny
me: hysterical
darrelljs: what luck
lol
yeah i guess its a matter of perspective
its not like you would have popped it there yourself
me: no, but still
20:01 anyway don't you have two sources?
darrelljs: well yeah
but I'm not giving it away
me: for free, you mean
darrelljs: right
can you tell if shoot is paying for it?
20:02 me: they have some fair resource trades too
so it's not a per-turn price
20:03 darrelljs: hmm
I think drafting jans makes more sense
but then drafting jans is probably not very fast
I don't see how he can attack you
without going all out on the navy
me: he needs iron for frigates too
darrelljs: and cannon
yeah
20:04 me: are jans any good? ythey're countered by muskets and newr units
20:05 darrelljs: they kill primitive units
absolutely kill them
they do okay aginst contemporary units
20:06 me: they don't have a bonus against mounted or gunpowder do they?
darrelljs: I mean knights they get a boost, against muskets they dont
they do against knnights
me: ok
not siege?
darrelljs: shock, pinch, cover
essentially like having those three for free
20:07 well, with the ability to take them again
me: you mean shock, formation, cover
darrelljs: I do
me: hmm
darrelljs: mouseketeers are better IMO
me: I think you definitely need to make Dave pay for his Music shenanigans
20:08 darrelljs: lol
music wasn't the issue
he told us he was going to tech music then astro
krill calls that "stealing" taj...I won't go that far
me: well will he beat you?
20:09 darrelljs: Kyan bluffed me off of hanging gardens with a similar deceit
ironically, the HG engineer is what he used to beat me
he got it this turn
me: Kyan has some bad Karma, some of it should carry over
well good play by him I must grudgingly admit
but dishonest
darrelljs: I guess
20:10 Assumign he doesn't pay for it later
me: true
darrelljs: We went from Friendly to Cautious.
One doesn't declare war at Friendly
One might at Cautious, if there is gain
me: well there would be more gain from attacking Dave than from attacking Rego
darrelljs: For us, yes
20:11 But not for you
me: I don't even know where he is
but I think he's not farther away than Rego
20:12 darrelljs: no, he's not
I thought you traded maps with him?
me: no..
darrelljs: hmm
have you traded maps with anyone?
me: no
darrelljs: has anyone scouted you out?
me: rego has scouted our back coast
darrelljs: oh
20:13 maybe that's where it came form, I could swear I got your map when I got his
but it could be just more of your map, not all of it
me: Yeah well I don't think you see Capital, not that its location is any secret
20:14 darrelljs: I can't see much of anything on the south
I see workers chopping forests
on occasion
me: on our continent?
darrelljs: If memory serves, which it does less of late
me: must be our last two forests you saw

[spacemanmf]

Interesting developments. I knew Dave had a Great Engineer as previously disclosed, but I deliberately didn't tell anyone... =)

Incidentally, not much point bringing the chariot down if we get spices hooked up in 2 turns and furs not much longer after that, then we can whip the forge.

The 10t rolling NAP has come at a good time for Shoot. Gives him chance, if he wants, to build up jans to take our iron city. Does that mean we have to beeline Rifling now?

[novice]

Interesting developments. I knew Dave had a Great Engineer as previously disclosed, but I deliberately didn't tell anyone... =)

Incidentally, not much point bringing the chariot down if we get spices hooked up in 2 turns and furs not much longer after that, then we can whip the forge.

The 10t rolling NAP has come at a good time for Shoot. Gives him chance, if he wants, to build up jans to take our iron city. Does that mean we have to beeline Rifling now?

I wouldn't let NB go unhappy needlessly though, so let's move that chariot. Isn't spices due in 4? We need two roads there.

If StM wants to Jan rush us we should make do with the 7 turn warning and defend with cats and muskets. We need to take some risks to stay competitive, I feel. Of course, if his power spikes unduly we can reconsider.

[novice]

I wouldn't let NB go unhappy needlessly though, so let's move that chariot. Isn't spices due in 4? We need two roads there.

Or maybe the gems are roaded already? If so, you're completely right.

[novice]

Honorable Novice & Spaceman,

I regret that we cannot find common ground on the matter of trading East Indiamen for Riflemen. However, my terms outlined in my previous email are non-negotiable.

Regards,
Dave

[spacemanmf]

Roaded gems:

[spacemanmf]

Which reminds me, next turn is T100, so plenty of pics?

[spacemanmf]

I had time for a peek but no time to play, so I'll leave it to you as discussed.

We can build a settler in 3 turns in Gold Rush so that's pretty tempting, right? Can whip the forge in Financial Trap. And we can squeeze 40% research this turn before dropping to max tax next turn.

[novice]

I had time for a peek but no time to play, so I'll leave it to you as discussed.

We can build a settler in 3 turns in Gold Rush so that's pretty tempting, right? Can whip the forge in Financial Trap. And we can squeeze 40% research this turn before dropping to max tax next turn.

Sounds good. Unfortunately I didn't have time to finish playing this morning. I finished the cottage at Capital and worked it to grow in 2. I changed a hill to coast in Investment to grow in 1 (we get more health from spices next turn), and worked the hill in Cornered instead. Started a market in Net Profit.

I'll finish tonight unless you pick it up first.