[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[suboptimal]

You might, depending on how far the Nazcan galley(s) have traveled. However, considering I've covered most of the same territory I don't know how much we pick up (unless the city-state's map info includes prior suzerains).

[roland of gilead]

You might, depending on how far the Nazcan galley(s) have traveled.  However, considering I've covered most of the same territory I don't know how much we pick up (unless the city-state's map info includes prior suzerains).

once you see something you see it forever. The question is does a city state get your map info when you Suze it.

we could find out for science. the flip side of course is when i lose the Suze someone might get ours. 

will try to find out somewhere.

[suboptimal]

Turn 77

Engineering is done. Given that Roland is going to finish Horseback Riding before me and has the boost I divert to Construction to unlock lumbermills and get the inspiration for Games & Recreation. Theology completes next turn and the run to Mercenaries begins. There’s another development – CMF/Marcopolo have declared war on Nazca. I don’t have anything that I could use to poach the city-state from them as my nearest galley is 5 turns away in Al. They’ll likely be surprised that I’m settling Big Island, though. This isn’t exactly a bad thing since it means that Woden & Kaiser would lose six envoys between them. Roland, save your envoys for elsewhere. We can mark that down as a liberation target (along with Vilnius).

I have a notification that my warrior was attacked by a barbarian. I take a closer look and see that in Roland’s screenshot the spearman wasn’t hiding...it was dead. That’s fine. My warrior crosses the river to clear the camp, getting me 50 and 3 era score. Slinger hits the warrior across the river for 28 and the swordsman moves down to the salt. Next turn I’ll retreat the clearing warrior back across the river and start working it up towards Graceland. To the north of the action slinger disembarks and spots the redlined slinger still on the Holy Site marker. I’ll need to track that one down. Confucius reaches the southern coast and the settler is in Graceland proper.

To the north the warrior on Midway moves north and just finds some tundra hills. Galley closes in on Japanese territory – I think I’ll head east, though, to locate their core:




Southern galley moves to the northwest and finds where the action might be:




I also meet Archduke and get 3 era score for meeting everyone. More on Archduke in a bit; I use the remaining two movement to go west past the Japanese galley:




The city with the RND is literally named “(Official Visit)”. If you take a careful look to the SW of “Bristol Channel” you can see the blue borders of a scientific city-state. Guess which was I’m headed next turn? That’s likely Mitla.

Now for Archduke:




He’s got five cities total and Official Visit is not his capital. Right now his yields are on par with my own, though I’ll get a read on his generation next turn.

It seems we were set up with us and the Woden/Ljubljana crew in the NW quandrant of the map and the other four in the SE quandrant. Looks like TBS may have been trying to set everyone up as a plus sign without putting the east & west branches too close to each other. That also means that Big Island is in the center of the map and is a good spot to be.

Graceland will be buying a settler in three turns. Seven turns to settle A. I’ve got the but not the population. My era score rolled in big this turn – two more for a normal age, fourteen more for another golden age. Roland, thoughts about upgrading the other warrior on Big Island just in case CMF/Marcopolo send a settler to the island? I’d do the upgrade in 7 turns after A is settled and I’ve got the iron to do so.

In looking at my generation, time to recoup the spent (2 turns), the build time (8 turns) and my timeline for Graceland (3 turns) I decide to buy the builder in Diamonds rather than slow-building it. I’ll get the tea plantation out next turns, the deer camp three turns after that and then I’m going to put in a tundra lumbermill at OC three turns after that. It just acquired a tundra forest with good appeal so it’s getting 2 per turn and would be a 142 tile with a lumbermill. I’m not working it right now because I want raw and there’s a 13 forest to the east of the city. Diamonds will put a turn into a granary, build the temple and then finish the granary.

One other note – I rearranged B’s pinmap on Big Island. I considered shifting the city center to the SW to get the bananas first ring but that exposes the city to attack from three coast tiles at range 2 instead of just one.

Woden, Kaiser and Ljubljana all saw milpower decreases this turn, Woden the largest.

[roland of gilead]

Turn 78.

Fun one.

First Nazca going is not good. We will want to liberate that one. Others may be more pissed off about that than us though short term. It's also a strange one for Russia to take out but they probably feel they have to get in on the act.

What is the question around a second sword? I can send iron i will very soon be producing 10 a turn and be maxed out on that.

Really glad we have started to secure big island given the map layout. Especially back from the coast.

now we have some big big news to digest. Up in the NW i explore a bit more and kick myself a touch.



Gone and bloody found Valletta. could have found it ages ago if i had thought to embark that slinger ages ago. but only gone and found Valletta in what i presume is a safe position. Also got a quest which i am 5 turns away from completing anyway. Build a Holy Site.

Stick an evoy in it immediately as i am producing units in capital currently and i have 2 kicking about anyway.

are valetta the best city state in the game? probably....

you were right Sub eash civ probably has a pet CS. I like mine.

One thing to consider is do you want to Suze it first if possible as you have a bigger faith economy. For me i probably want to build some walls once i have monarch before suzing it. I have other uses for my faith just now. I also want to get my faith up fast as possible.

Buy the worker for Jebel to that end. i should get my faith income up to 60-70 a turn over the next 10 turns or so.



A look at loyalty on the islands. If you look at that small island between me and woden I have been watching that. it was at -20 when i founded goldson and -13 a few turns ago. -11 now my culture is pushing back on him.



I should still be able to settle east Vilnius if i have the chance. Which is debatable.

Something strange happening at goldson looks like i have walls but i don't. Hopefully that confuses the other teams at some point.

[suboptimal]

Let's see...

- The question about the second sword is whether or not we want more military power on Big Island in case Russia/Australia send a settler up to the southern end.

- Valetta is a good find. Hopefully it will be ice-locked like Antananarivo.

- I think we each get an envoy into Valetta for the capital unit build bonus first. I'm thinking it might be a good idea for me to suzerain once the jongs are out in order to buy walls and perhaps monuments across Big Island. We should examine civics progression, envoy generation and quests to determine if you can/should go to three envoys before or after me. Likewise I'll need to decide on the upcoming turn where my Theology envoy goes - Valetta or Antananarivo. Valetta may be the right move since the +2 to ships becomes +4 and that would let me move a citizen to the wheat for some faster city growth.

- Loyalty is primarily based on population and distance. As Borna's population grows equal to and larger than Vilnius (which it will due to housing and availability) the culture there should get easier to deal with. Once you even it up it might be worth getting a settler there and taking the inland city site NE of the mountain.

- Vilnius has 5 housing and is at 4 population (the granary looks complete in your screenshot). It's going to be slow growing for quite a while which should help with the loyalty on East Vilnius.

- Regarding the appearance of walls at Goldson that's normal and shouldn't confuse anyone. Whenever you start a building within a district its graphic appears within the district - until the defense bar appears everyone will know you're building walls. The graphic for the wall will change as you get more production into it (I believe at 1/3 and 2/3 complete) but it's just eye candy until they're done. Have a Good Time would have a wall graphic but there's no room for it with the canal graphics. The other thing to note about this is that if you were to select walls, put them at the front of the build queue and then immediately switch over to something else the graphic would still appear.

- I agree that the push onto Big Island looks like it will pay (big) dividends, especially since none of the cities can be taken by direct naval attack. I need to decide if any additional Holy Sites will be going in as first (or second) districts on Big Island. I'm leaning towards 2nd/3rd since the temples on the mainland will add another 8. Midway will likely go Holy Site first given the adjacency. We also need to decide/discuss City D but given the attack on Nazca I think that's now a given to keep them completely off the island.

[roland of gilead]

For the sword i would wait for now. I am building gold and have iron so we can always do it at a drop of a hat. I do need gold to buy tiles once Petra city goes down. i need to buy about 5 tiles there, though may be able to get that number down given Petra will select 2.

It would be good if you can Suze Valletta first but as you say we will need to see how that goes. I won't have faith to spare for a good while so no rush for me to do so short term.

Goldson isn't building walls and i don't believe has any production in them. I must have selected them at some point as you suggest. Forgot how they look from the other teams perspective Doh.

I agree City D looks to be needed.

We will need to have a look at upcoming Eurekas and Inspirations sometime soon but let's see what Horseback Riding reveals.

[suboptimal]

Turn 78

Theology is complete. No policy changes. Valetta wants me to send them a trade route. I have no route to them to send one. . I’ve been attacked by the barbarians on Big Island. I go there first. Slinger attacks the warrior, deadlines it (1hp). Sword moves next to the slinger. Warrior attacks warrior, kills it. Recently arrived slinger moves into the marsh and inland. Settler moves south, Confucius embarks. The barbarian slinger and warrior are both under 10 hp and should die next turn. I expect the warrior will suicide on the slinger since it’s in rage mode.

Back on the main land I change Diamonds’ build to a temple. Builder runs over and plantations the tea. There’s no immediate effect other than another amenity. However, the city will grow in two turns and I’ll work that for 2212. First quadrireme at Al is out, second is started. Galley moves SE as a picket and the quadrireme takes up station just outside the city. Al will grow next turn and I’ll start working the wheat. On Midway the warrior moves north again.




That’s a very interesting island. So far the only “external” visibility into that channel is from the coast tile directly 3E of the warrior. That’ll make for a very secure Harbor location. Eastern galley moves east, determines that the Japanese city is a likely outpost settlement:




Down in the Bristol Channel the Japanese galleys have disappeared. Archduke has a settler out, escorted by a galley. I move south/southwest and




It’s not Mitla, it’s Hattusa. They also want me to send a trade route. What’s interesting is that their borders are still open. I should double back and try to reveal a city center to the north – that’ll give us an idea of their unit capabilities.

Envoy time. I send the envoy to Valetta for +2 to units. That, combined with the new population in Al next turn adding another , will drop the time to build quads from 5 turns to 4 as long as I keep Urban Planning slotted. I’ll have another envoy when Military Training completes in three turns but will hold onto it. I’ll get a third envoy with Mercenaries (about 16 turns away) Military Tradition is at one turn and will be kept around for when I need a quick policy change (or flanking/support bonuses).

Nothing new on gossip, Nazca will fall next turn. Curious to see which civ conquers the city.

Looking at the stats it appears that Kaiser is operating at a -1 per turn deficit and Archduke, at +9 per turn, is occasionally financing him. CMF is leading in income at 25 per turn, next best is Roland (21) and Ljubljana (17). I’m at 12 and everyone else is single digits.

Woden’s milpower went up by 50, CMF and MPtF both had their milpower drop by a little bit. Wonder if they’re doing a joint attack on Nazca. That makes it likely it’d be an Australian colony on my next turn since any liberation attempt would activate their bonuses.

Looking at some alternative score tracking I do, we remain first in total score ex Wonders and era score (267) with Archduke/Kaiser in second at 260. In the ETC (Empire + Tech + Civic) scores we’re third at 243 behind Ljubljana/Woden at 254 and Archduke/Kaiser at 245. That will change as our expansion continues.

We also hold the lead on total culture generated (yields + boosts) at 32 tourists (3200 culture generated). All other teams are in the low to mid 20’s so culturally, mainly on the back of China, we are powering ahead in that regard.

[roland of gilead]

TURN 79

Mercenaries who says I don't have an army. Ok it's more Gaul than Rome but it's a basis.



Finish Horseback riding and start Iron Working for Jebel, the good news pours in.



Castles next which lines up perfectly with my civic giving me Monarchy. Petra city is going to be ridiculous and they all line up well together. I also have all 3 of those Eurekas lined up. Eurekas more and more important for me as they get more expensive. Also a route Apprenticeship. All very nice

One issue is i won't get to build much if any light Cav for upgrading before coursairs. What do you think Sub is this an issue?

You have some issues at Midway sub.



Put an envoy into Hattusa



Continue my advance in the NW nothing of note except a Hurricane.

[suboptimal]

Good turn!

Looks like the techs (and civics) have lined up well for us. I wouldn't worry too much about being able to get horses out before coursers. This is a sea map and cavalry units aren't as important as they would otherwise be. Given the short gap between the two techs it's also something that everyone else is going to need to contend with. However, perhaps build one horse and hold it for an upgrade at Mercenaries? (Hmmm....maybe I should do that instead of all swords? ). Besides, you've got time to get some chariots out before Stirrups so if you want some CS 60-somethings running around knights might be the way to go.

I'll likely head for Military Engineering after Horseback Riding.

The quadrireme at Midway is interesting - my warrior might not be alone. However, it also means that getting any barbarian camp cleared will be a giant pain in the ass.

[roland of gilead]

Yeah i can squeeze out for sure and knights are a good shout.

Finding niter would be nice.

Machinery and Education the missing techs. We should be able to find Machinery fairly soon i will get up to 3 archers.