Claims aside, Bigger and Tasunke both briefly attacking each other early on and then not following up on any of each others' suspicious activities later is a scum tell to me.
on to the claims. Azza clearly either has the lockpick or (if he's scum) has a teammate that has the lockpick. Because this is an item that village wouldn't be afraid to immediately counter claim. Now he could be scum and intending to claim "I must have been jailed by bigger night 1" but he must know that we probably wouldn't believe him if he did, should tasunke be lynched and flip vig. Trying to push a 1:1 trade with a vigilante isn't an attractive play for scum when the vig might screw up and hand the gun over to a scum. My opinion is that if azza is scum with the lockpick and tasunke is village, he would only be likely to call tasunke out if he genuinely did try to steal from tasunke and found nothing. Now I can buy that tasunke might have been lying yesterday as village, but there'd be no excuse to continue lying today after we demanded a proper claim.
what about tasunke's scum motivations for falsely claiming vigilante? Wouldn't that ultimately lead to his death because tasunke could hardly survive a 1v1 with someone claiming "actually I had the gun night 1"? Well, he might have felt locked into claiming it at this point and just wanted to draw out the real vigilante. Now if azza is village, scum wouldn't also be able to steal the gun tonight, but it would at least ID who is confirmable town that the scum have to get rid of; or they could try some targetted manipulation today in the hope that the gun would be passed off to scum. So there's potential motivation there beyond the usual tasunke craziness.
So I think tasunke is lying. Azza isn't necessarily confirmed if Tasunke flips guilty though, because the lockpick is a slightly scummy item as novice pointed out, and scum might have decided to bus Tasunke if he was doing a claim likely to be busted by a counter-claim anyway.
BTW I don't think the real vig actually needs to claim as things currently stand.
Selrahc Wrote:The only way it can work out well is if the scum know where the gun is, and are planning to murder the person before they reveal themself, but after they pass the item.
Which can't work, since passing occurs dead last in the night phase, after all possible kills...
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
Hum. It also doesn't really make sense that Tasunke would be trusted if he revealed he was the vig, unless he knew in advance about the fact that a mafia was going to be killed. So taking on an incredibly risky scheme.. just in order to claim an unverifiable vig? I mean, he didn't even know that the vig was going to shoot.
Maybe he was trawling for reactions to his vig hint to try and flush out the vig. But then he apparently doesn't have the lockpick, so what can they even do beyond just killing the vig? Um.
Hmm.
Is there any plausible reason Tasunke would lie about having the gun as a villager?
(January 7th, 2013, 08:06)Selrahc Wrote: Hum. It also doesn't really make sense that Tasunke would be trusted if he revealed he was the vig, unless he knew in advance about the fact that a mafia was going to be killed. So taking on an incredibly risky scheme.. just in order to claim an unverifiable vig? I mean, he didn't even know that the vig was going to shoot.
He was hinting at one of many items - Jailer, Bulletproof, Vig. The night actions forced him into a Vig claim.
@Selrahc yeah I was a bit confused working through Tasunke's scum motivations too. Besides what I posted there's also the Tasunke X factor though, he comes up with ideas that make no sense to anyone else.
Trouble if he's a villager who is still lying for some incomprehensible reason, I don't see how we can distinguish that from lying scum.
(January 6th, 2013, 17:44)waterbat Wrote: @village: there is the possibility that a scum holds the vest and they decided not to night kill. I know likelihood of thus is low, but wouldn't be granting confirmed status because of it. Let serdoa pick out all the scum and lets lynch them as proof of alignment.
Thats interesting. But why should scum forego its nightkill and have me claim the vest? That would be wasting a night for nothing. We have no role to save me, so at best I leave through N3, because N2 they probably go for Tasunke. Well or maybe not. In general village is more likely to shoot themselves than scum, so maybe they will kill me N2 and hope for Tas to get lynched the next day.
Anyhow, what really is interesting is your last sentence: "Let Serdoa pick out all the scum and lets lynch them as proof of alignment". Just because I am a confirmed (mostly) villager does not make me know for certain who are the wolves. Making this suggestion was so extremely anti-town of you waterbat, that I wonder that no one even picked up on it. Anyhow
waterbat
(January 6th, 2013, 20:02)Merovech Wrote: I think a lot of things revolve around uberfish's identity...
(January 7th, 2013, 00:33)Merovech Wrote: Hmm. Obviously, this makes Waterbat look bad, although I'm keeping my vote on uberfish. I also don't want to forget about Selrahc. I mostly voted for him because I really didn't want to see Rowain hang, but he didn't exactly give me an innocent vibe, and he seems to have slipped off the radar.
Merovech, plese explain WHICH things revolve around uberfishs identity, you unfortunately were very unspecific.
I haven't read past this post (just woke up) but I'm going out to a little bit, so I wanted to make sure I didn't forget to answer this.
The most important factor in my intial voting for uberfish is that I think his day 1 arguements and votes were pretty scummy. The N1/D2 wagon on Tasunke also didn't make him look great at first glance, but part of me wants to say that a talented scum would be aware that a vig claim by Tasunke would make him look very bad...but I guess that is outweighed by the scums' need to get him to claim.
If uberfish is scum, like I suspect, the. I think that makes Selrahc look a little less scummy )be uaee the two of them together basically created the Rowain wagon, and it seems dangerous for two scum to do that (unless that's what they want me to think...). I was also thinking at the time that a scum uberfish would make Zak look bad, although I will have to reread to remember exactly how Zak played day 1.
An innocent uberfish would make Selrahc look pretty scummy, I think, but at the moment, I think uberfish is more likely to be scum than Selrahc.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 6th, 2013, 17:44)waterbat Wrote: @village: there is the possibility that a scum holds the vest and they decided not to night kill. I know likelihood of thus is low, but wouldn't be granting confirmed status because of it. Let serdoa pick out all the scum and lets lynch them as proof of alignment.
Anyhow, what really is interesting is your last sentence: "Let Serdoa pick out all the scum and lets lynch them as proof of alignment". Just because I am a confirmed (mostly) villager does not make me know for certain who are the wolves. Making this suggestion was so extremely anti-town of you waterbat, that I wonder that no one even picked up on it.
I would like you to answer waterbat why you made such an antitown-call. Right now, I think it would be best to lynch you and just wait till tomorrow to see if another villager comes forward to claim the vig-shot from N1. We do have to catch at least 2 more scum anyhow, and you together with Selrahc are imo our best candidates right now.
