[PB62 Mjmd] Let the Bullgine Run!

[Mjmd]

  What the fuck did I just listen to?

A poor remake of a classic Canadian folk-song about an important piece of Canadian history.  The Saskatchewan wheat-pirates were once almost as famous as the Swiss navy.

Since Thoth feels so strongly I renamed the city and am just going to post a warning that if you didn't like the version I used, don't listen to this one.



I couldn't fit the whole name though (1 letter short). Also note all the people up to 3 cities. Naug and Van nauturally and then Tarkeel/Civic have Fable down to 1. Van is settling for gold, but in a less egregious location than one I had originally. I was kind of hoping to get culture in there and that Van WOULDN'T settle right away. 

[pindicator]

He really could have bullied us with early game culture too. We're a little lucky he didn't plant 1N of that spot.

[Mjmd]

He really could have bullied us with early game culture too.  We're a little lucky he didn't plant 1N of that spot.

I'm assuming it was either a food consideration or wanted the 2h tile. But nonetheless I'll take what I can get!

[Mjmd]

T41

UMMMMMM this game is going to be unbalanced AF.

Notice the lovely 2nd in food. Good you might say; why thank you. 



Now notice the rival worst land area and Tarkeel / Civac up to 4 cities......... Bing is now also down to 1, but Naufrager would be up to 4 if he took capital, so assuming Fable capital was one that got taken. Poor poor greens. Ya feel bad for them. Mind you guess which 2/7 people voted for small / tight map and got it.......... YAAAAA maybe shouldn't listen to greens on map size.

My power is actually very high thanks mainly to archery.

I do wish I had thought about my worker a bit more. I was just like oh ya obviously I farm that tile since its probably the safest opportunity to do so and I could move there after roading, but now I'm wondering if I should have done 5 cities 2 worker opening and had it start the long roading trek north OR if I should have had it chop out another worker at capital. Ah well. Pin do you think I should go farm the other floodplain in 5 turns or should I go mine that river grassland hill that all 3 cities can share? My plan with Last Sask now that Van has settled for the gold is to turn it into a whipping post to produce workers so leaning towards farming, but just having another improved tile they can all share is also tempting (now kind of leaning that way).

[Mjmd]

T46

So Bing and Fable capitals were captured and they were eliminated. The only reason to play is to see if T/C or Naug wins. I hereby release you Pin to general lurk. Mind you like most of what I do (when I think about it) this is calculated. I'm hoping Pin you join me on a future map that isn't hopeless and also get more CK3 updates .

So I've made no secrets this map is um "special", but I still like Commodore and since I've deviated from non actual sea shanties and game is a joke for me, this seems like an excellent game to pull out other songs (joke, modified, ect). But anyways this city name should make Commodore happy. If I remember correctly he likes Kipling and this is a modern rendition of the 'Tree Song' poem.






SOOOO Vanrober settled ON copper. This obvious creates a super awkward situation where in order to get the sheep he HAS to make his culture SUPER awkward for me. SOOOO I instead settled it  . I had to tech myst which I hadn't planned on doing this early, but in return I eventually get a city that is almost as good as a capital spot....... But for now it is slow. I did send him a joint war with Naug. I was going to do both against Naug and Tarkeel, but he actually hasn't met yet. The ONLY hope we have is to somehow live with a long border between us peacefully as I don't think either of us can easily kill the other. Sadly Naug and Tarkeel don't border or maybe we could hope they fight directly. The only glimmer of hope if Van and I don't fight each other is there is I believe wild praet barbarians assuming between the two runaways. The other balancing to my spot is Van could actually settle an INSANE spot towards former Fable which would take my wet rice. It would also grab the hill pig and the gold. Seems fair to me.

Capital should have grown to 4 this turn, but T44 a barb warrior showed up east of capital. I had to work forested hill to get chariot exactly this turn. Barb indeed entered T45 and stepped on my rice this turn (I had a back up warrior in case chariot died,which it took a lot of damage for the 98% odds). Point being it was already 1 turn behind whip timer. Now its two. HOWEVER, this does present an opportunity I think* I'm taking. I was going to mine the hill worker is on, but instead I can move worker to a forest and road it in time for worker that comes from capital to move then to forested hill and start roading NW. I can then overflow into a settler and chop it out (maybe with some growth turns in-between).

[Amicalola]

The only reason to play is to see if T/C or Naug wins... 

So I've made no secrets this map is um "special", but I still like Commodore and since I've deviated from non actual sea shanties and game is a joke for me...

Genuine question: In PB56 after Noble did something similar, you spent most of the game thinking a comeback was possible. To the point that afterwards I felt guilty for being such a downer. What do you see as the difference here? Something mechanical to do with this game, or are you just more jaded now?

[Mjmd]

The only reason to play is to see if T/C or Naug wins... 

So I've made no secrets this map is um "special", but I still like Commodore and since I've deviated from non actual sea shanties and game is a joke for me...

Genuine question: In PB56 after Noble did something similar, you spent most of the game thinking a comeback was possible. To the point that afterwards I felt guilty for being such a downer. What do you see as the difference here? Something mechanical to do with this game, or are you just more jaded now?

Mainly I just wanted to smash someone with Praets and then it kind of looked like it was possible. But IMMEDIATELY after the main difference was that I figured you and Lazteuq would snap up a lot of the in-between land, which there was a lot of / was of pretty good quality (mind you Lazteuq didn't do that and instead settled a silly city next to Gira, but I digress). This game the best land is the capitals. Like I can't punish either Naug or Tarkeel with a plant. Its possible Vanrober can a bit more (like spot indicated), but overall capitals are king on this map; there just isn't that much good land to even try to grab. The other difference is it didn't look like from either Fables or Bings graphs they saw it coming and therefore the resources required from Naug and T/C probably weren't as much as Noble had to to fight AT / hold you off in PB56.

I'm also a little more jaded and very frustrated at this map, which doesn't help. But as usual I'm not giving up! I however did stop simming when copper was revealed and I meant to do another round........ This already caused at least 1 for sure mistake and I suspect the FP farm was another.

[pindicator]

Sorry you're feeling despondent on the game. If we had some decent land nearby I might say we could REX our back to stay in contention ... but nothing around us really is the same quality as taking a neighbor's capital. (One reason I was pushing you to rush so vanrober so much.) I don't think I'll general lurk yet. For one, if this map really is this unbalanced it isn't going to be a fun one to lurk. For two, I don't think you're quite out of it yet

I'll try to get some CK3 updates going. I haven't played in forever. New Path of Exile league has really sucked me in. (Playing Righteous Fire for the first time and it's a blast!)

[Mjmd]

If we had some decent land nearby I might say we could REX our back to stay in contention ... but nothing around us really is the same quality as taking a neighbor's capital.  (One reason I was pushing you to rush so vanrober so much.)

So my plan such as it was was assuming people would fight and I could pickup some easy territory without getting bogged down early myself (as Van is no longer a push over). Sadly instead we had two green players get absolutely wrecked....... The other factor was Vanrober moved to a better early game capital (I can't argue for overall balance or long term potential, but his is CLEARLY early game faster). I mentioned to Pin, but the last micro I did for this game wasn't for me, I did a bit of Vans and he could have had a warrior to my wheat the same turn my warrior could get there T21............ So clearly a warrior rush was out. Skirmisher rush had the same problem with overall him just being faster. 2nd city on horse for chariot rush I don't know if 2 back to back chariots from capital would have been good enough, but I only had 1 warrior to defend a forward plant and I admit to being afraid of multiple warriors just insta killing it. I think the best chance would have been the last plan we discussed for two chariots from the fog T44. We had originally decided against because we saw the on copper plant and due to time to get to stage point Van would have graph knowledge of. I think the odds were best with that last plan, but probably sub 25%. HOWEVER, when I settled city #3 it was pretty clear Fable was getting run over, so MAYBE it would have still been the way to go odds wise. BUT at the time I thought Bing and Naug were just having a "don't let Bing hook up copper" war, so my original plan to pick off weak players after a fight still seemed ok. /shrug.

Just to talk a little bit more with what I look for in a possible comeback game. There are two factors missing from this game that others I've played in have had. 1) you need some kind limiting force for the leader. The best counterweight is to border another strong civ (think Noble bordering Amica PB56). Naug and T/C I think* don't border or don't border much (maps small enough they might?). 2) Need some kind of expansion path for myself to make myself stronger. Think Jowy and me splitting GKC in PB60. There's no hope of attacking anyone weak. I can either attack Van and hope to run over (I have my doubts) OR what I  plan on trying is to see if we can get a quick 3 v 1 war vs one of the strong with some praets providing distraction while Van and I HA. Best plan I can think of atm.

Anyways T47 Van met Tarkeel so sent diplo I meant to last turn. I think I figured out a way to chop my way to a couple cities really fast hopefully. Have workers coming out of both Eliza Lee and Barge Ballad. Figure chop and give cow to capital to produce two settlers. One going to sweet spot NW as planned and other to grab the gems.

[Mjmd]

T50

Nothing has really changed empire wise, so just posting demos.


Anyone notice anything strange (hint look at pop). I'm not posting, but T/C power graph has kept going up, but SD recently double played? Are the in a stand off? Only SD can be that low on pop, which is really bad for our chances. I honestly can't say when it happened, because I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have.

Anyways, mad at that barb for showing up this turn. Had just moved chariot west and now it had to move back. Naug has been sitting monitoring whats in my new city AND I DON'T LIKE IT. Vanrober hasn't sent back any diplo, which I don't understand why not. I understand long unstable border, BUT two opponents picked up capitals for free and evidently the rampaging Praets I was hoping for probably aren't going to happen......

Vanrober seems to be getting granaries up before expanding more? Has one in his capital. My plan of chop two settlers is going as planned. Next turn whip a worker in Barge to go chop. Hoping to get pottery myself T55 same turn I settle new city. As I'm winging it I haven't done math on when next settler will come out, but it will pay for itself with the gems.