[Spoilers] Whosit is playing for second

[Whosit]

Barbarians are getting handled. They pillaged a farm but it's not a big deal as I'm not really using it right now.




Loyalty dropping more, probably due to loss of pop from Settlers spawning.




Government Plaza and Commercial Hub going down. CH will be worth +3 gold. I also realized that if greenline has made 2 Settlers, one may be coming this way, after all. Also, I'm now thinking that the road I'm seeing is a route from former-Venice to Korea's capital.




And production in Burmese to compare.

There would have been 11 modified overflow, or possibly 9, or 3 "real" overflow from the Galley into the Builder, which would get 10.1 from production that turn. 16 invested to 31 this turn. Sadly, cannot see decimals even though the game tracks them. But the overflow turned into about 5 points of production. Taking away the 30% ilkum boost, that's about 3.8.

This is making me lean towards my theory that the game tracks "real" and "bonus" production, and applies real production first. Producing the galley with the 100% production means I get 8 real, and 8 bonus production. 5 points of real production were needed to finish the galley, leaving 3 real and all the bonus production for the Galley goes away. The overflow production then gets the 30% bonus for the builder.

The one hole of data here is where the extra prod came from, though it could easily be that the galley was really like 60.8/65 production, so that would explain it. Again, hard to say for sure since I can't see the fractional production in-game.

Since it was a standard turn pace today, I'm crossing my fingers that I will get the save before I have to leave for work in the morning.

Oh, quick guess at Korea's district costs:

Techs: 8/77 = 0.10
Civics: 5/57 = 0.08

Commercial Hub: 102 production
Government Plaza: 57 production

Arirang estimated production: 15 (3-4 turns)
Scarborough Fair estimated production: 6.4 (16 turns--likely less when it grows again)

[Whosit]

Since I had some free time, I went back to my spreadsheet and tried to decipher what the Khmer were doing. They are easier to track than China because they've been investing so heavily into Holy Sites and Shrines, I have a rough idea when their great prophet points increased.

Will be curious how close I got to guessing their opening.

Capital: I wasn't tracking data until Turn 7, so I did miss some important info. I believe that the Khmer settled on Turn 3 (2 turn delay). First production was Warrior/Builder (probably that order). After those two first units, Settler began Turn 17. Would finish Turn 25. Then Holy Site begins (63 prod cost). Oh, Capital was briefly size 4 on turn 24, then back to 3 with Settler. Grew back to 4 Turn 31. Holy Site finishes turn 31 and is +3 or greater bonus. I'm assuming +3 (river + mountain?), but could be +4. Cap grows to size 5 turn 39. At this point, hard to tell exact builds, especially without Military Power data. I know that a Settler was finished Turn 50, and a Shrine Turn 51. My gut says build was Slinger > Slinger > Shrine/Settler. Unfortunately, no idea what it might have built from this point forward. I think it is Size 7 as of Turn 60.

Instead of 2 slingers, might be another builder. I could be overestimating city production at each size.

City 2: Founded Turn 29, began Holy Site immediately, which finished Turn 44. Then straight into Shrine. That finished Turn  56. I think this city is size 4 or 5 now.

City 3: Founded Turn 56. Not enough data to guess what it started.

Techs: First tech was Astrology (got a boost with Natural Wonder). Then 2 tier 0 techs.... My guess is Pottery and Mining. Then about 53 science was invested in something. I would throw a dart and guess Writing with a boost. Then on turn 47 was next tech, 35 science invested. I'll say Irrigation with boost. Next Tech takes 12 turns, and I think about 80 science was invested. I'm going to say Bronze Working with the boost. Turn 59.

Alternatively, maybe not writing. I'm not sure that the Khmer met anyone until relatively recently...

Civics: Code of Laws finished Turn 18. Then I think Archduke split research between Foreign Trade and Craftsmanship, hoping to get the boost for FT, but ultimately researched it without the boost on Turn 45. Then researched Early Empire with boost Turn 56. Finished Craftsmanship in 1 turn.  Currently teching State Workforce. I expect it to finish around Turn 67, give or take.

I believe that the Khmer have not built any monuments, campuses, or have any significant boosts to either Culture or Science. That aligns best with the timeline I've calculated (I may have underestimated Science output a bit, though). I'm going to guess the Khmer have 2 or maybe 3 luxuries hooked up. I think that they have a relatively small military.

All in all, I think that Archduke is doing the Khmer thing of getting a lot of food and a lot of faith. Lack of culture and science is going to be an increasing problem going forward. Wonder what governor was picked. Faith guy? Or someone more standard? Score-wise, Khmer are middle of the pack, closing in on Korea.

If my analysis is anywhere close to reality, I'm going to list the Khmer as NOT A THREAT, at least at this time. Unless Archduke is going to actually try to go for a religious victory (impossible, players can just declare war and condemn missionaries), then faith is going to get banked. Khmer are going to get a normal age, so no spending faith with Monumentality. Sucks, to be sure. Since that faith can't be turned into military until they get a Tier 2 government and the appropriate Gov Plaza building.... that's a far way off if their culture output is as low as I believe.

If I were to make contact with the Khmer, I would try to use them as a trading partner.

[Whosit]

Played turn but had to get to the office after so no pictures right now. Got my golden age, and aside from the game being dumb about amenity distribution, doing very well.

One curious thing is that Korea's culture went up by 2 and I cannot figure out the source. Maybe time will tell.

Venice is now losing 2 loyalty per turn. Not sure if greenline already slotted in a loyalty boosting card or not, but either way, taking the city has proven to be a poison pill.

As previously stated, I'll be focusing on infrastructure as long as I can since I am a little underdeveloped in that area. Still only 1 complete district in my empire. I also want a granary in Bengal asap but it would take too long to slow build. I think I will chop it out once I can move Magnus out of the capital. More population means more loyalty pressure (and all the other stuff more pop gives).

[Whosit]

Turn 61 pictures:






(2nd drought there so far.)


 


 




I actually had no idea that you could see this breakdown.




And then I just played turn 62.




I'm sure greenline is just trying  to shoo me away, but I'm still going to block access to Zanzibar. (Though looking at the loyalty map, I don't think Korea could hold this, either!)




This looks like greenline spitefully cut me off from contacting China. But greenline did not spend any money.... So is this a hilariously ill-timed auto tile buy from a city about to revolt? Well, this is certainly obnoxious. Anyway, Mo Li Hua is below 50% loyalty, so it has a -75% penalty to growth, and a -50% penalty to all yields. >:3




Decided to promote an archer with Garrison since turtling is my plan, and my Encampment positioning gives me a wide field of fire.


 







This actually cuts a whole turn off of the Commercial Hub. (I had to go back and juggle the citizens around to get the UI to update, just to make sure the bonus DID apply the same turn I got it.)

In two turns, my science output will go from the 17.1 you see in screenshots to 22.9.  I'll be ahead of Korea by a stretch. I don't expect greenline to like seeing that.  

I also decided to go Astrology > Celestial Navigation (unboosted, or 120 science). Right now, the UI says it will take 8 turns at current science levels. By my calculations, it will take me only 5 turns in reality. So I can slap down a Harbor in Burmese in 7 turns! I may wait to actually build it until I have Veterancy slotted in (when Bengal would build its Barracks).

And the builder coming out of Burmese will 1) quarry stone for boost, 2) mine iron for 2 boosts (and iron), 3) chop woods at Bengal (with Magnus). This should 1 turn a granary. 4) mine that hill. I think that will happen Turn 73 or 74. A ways off, sadly. The city badly needs that extra housing.

I guess that's about everything.

[Whosit]

New Korean city. Lightens the pressure on former Venice somewhat, but that city is still losing loyalty.




Will try to delay the Settler. There's no 1-tile chokepoint here for me to block, but hopefully the Zanzibar warriors will dance around in a helpful way.




Com Hub with Free Inquiry bonus. Also, with Classical Republic, gives an extra point of housing so Bengal will grow. It still needs a Granary to get to size 7, though.




I believe it is Krill/China who built an Encampment. I will see if I can keep Strategos slotted in until I finish my own Encampment.

Put a turn into a granary at Burmese, so Liang will establish next turn, and Builder will finish the turn after with 4 charges.

[Whosit]

Three turns in a day!

No pics because very little new to show. I did get to swap Persia to the second truffles on Turn 64 because it will no longer slow down the completion date of its Commercial Hub. It will also grow at the same time (T67).

Scarborough Fair grew back to size 4 Turn 65. And now ex-Venice is stable, though still below 50% loyalty. However, both Bengal and Burmese will grow in... Actually, Bengal might not grow (in 4 turns). In a couple of turns I will be leaving Classical Republic, so I'll lose the bonus housing (and happiness) that comes with it. Though the Builder coming out of Bengal will chop a Rainforest first thing, so, 5 turns at the most.

My point being, I expect that will put the pressure back on. Korea's newest city will grow in, oh, 6 turns I think? Bengal has a TON of infrastructure build, and the mines that the Builder will put down are desperately needed. Needs to finish Encampment (mainly for great general points), needs a Granary to grow to size 7 so it can build an entertainment complex. Needs that to run Bread and Circuses which should absolutely throw ex-Venice into a revolt.

I'm trying to delay Korea's settler to the east, but the city state warriors aren't cooperating. Though I suppose I could just plant my Scout on the tile that I think greenline wants to settle....

Oh, right. Greenline spent 75 gold to buy a tile in ex-Venice to put down another Seowon. I was kind of shocked at that investment, but I guess greenline feels confident that they will hold the city. With the new city settled on Maize, Korea is earning 10 gpt. I'm currently earning 25 gpt, and it will only go up as more Commercial Hubs finish, and I build more plantations and camps. Once Markets come online.... more gold, and more trade routes!

I have no idea what greenline's army consists of now. It's clearly way bigger than I thought. Power currently 205. I guess we'll see if that's where it tops off. My usual refrain: I need more military, but I want so many other things. However, greenline's recent investment in Settlers and infrastructure is making me think that they are not looking to fight as soon as our treaty wears off. An eastern desert city will give Korea a lifeline for expansion, but containing Korea will be a priority.

Or training up like 6 Legions and containing Korea that way. Though tbh, doubtful I will raise such a force quickly.

[Whosit]

Wait a minute.

Rome on Korea's doorstep.

This IS PB2 all over again!!

[RefSteel]

Hey, at least there's nobody playing Elizabeth of India out in the fog somewhere, right? (And maybe more importantly, it's not a full-diplo game!)

[Whosit]

Well, I don't mind a little diplomacy. lol Seriously though, it wasn't that it was Elizabeth of India so much as who was playing. I bet they could have played Tokugawa of America and still done very well. XD

Turn didn't arrive to me until 15 minutes until I had to leave for work. I played as soon as I got home but looking like it might still be too late for the Brits. Though all in all we've done well to keep a 2 turn a day pace most of the time.

Korea is the first other civilization to complete Political Philosophy and chose Classical Republic. I don't think there's really any good way for me to figure out what policies someone is running, besides guesswork. Power dropped 1 point to 204. Making me wonder if 205 is actually Korea's total power right now. Best way I could divide that up is 4 Archers, 4 Warriors, 1 Slinger, and 1 Scout. No idea how accurate that really is, though. Could be a Spearman instead of an Archer, I suppose.

Japan cleared the Barb camp in their icy north. I also noticed that they are listed as having no luxuries, and yup, their fishing boats were pillaged.




Just trying to be obnoxious, but not really slowing them down much.




Boost to Masonry finished the tech.




Haven't found the barb camp to the north yet, but this land is so dry it looks fairly useless. Right now, they would need immediate Granaries and at least 4 farms to make useful. Definitely not worth the effort at this point in the game when there are greener pastures still. I'm hoping that my early cities in the eastern region will present enough of a loyalty threat to make expansion difficult for Korea. Though I will definitely be getting more Settlers out....

I was thinking about the path forward after Turn 77. I'm going to have a huge boost to my science as my gold districts come online*. It looks like it's giving me a slight edge over Korea, but they are keeping up, especially with their Seowons. That edge will completely disappear at the end of this age. So there's two ways to deal with it, seems to me.

1) Invest in Campuses

2) Conquer Korea.

#2 is looking more appealing to me.  

How would I go about this? Legions. They'll be expensive to build, and I don't have enough woods to do the trick of having Legions chopping new ones out. I DO have a relatively large gold income. Upgrading units is cheaper than buying them outright. I think upgrading a Warrior to a Legion is 140 gold? I can save that much in 6 turns. Bengal is going to be busy with infrastructure for a long while yet, but after the Pyramids finish, with Agoge, the capital can spit out 2 turn Warriors. Lack of XP bonus is sad but eh.

I want to time this with getting the Great General. I think I can save up enough for about 4 Legion upgrades by the time I get the Great General. I will want to also start a trade route to Korean territory close to the time of the attack. I think with the speed and power boosts the Legions will have, I can definitely take Scarborough Fair. I'll want a Battering Ram, too, just in case of walls.

I think greenline will still have mostly Warriors and Archers at this point. Why do I think that? Korea is going to have to build new units if they want newer ones. Korea just spent all of its cash on a tile, and they're not making enough gold to save up for mass upgrades. I think greenline's actions of expanding, spending on infrastructure, and comments in public threads suggest that they'd much rather play builder than warmonger.

*Burmese is going to become insane. I'm putting both a harbor and commercial hub there just so I can get a Splendid Com Hub (it's really hard to do if you're not Japan). But that will end up with a +4 Harbor and a +5 Commercial Hub. That city is going to be MINTING me money once it gets its infrastructure up!

[Whosit]

OK, did some "back of napkin" calculations.

T66: 11.5 + 2.3 GGP

Bengal
T66: Builder 44/70 +14
T67: Builder 58/70 +14 +27 gpt (Persian CH)
T68: Builder 72/74 +14
T69: Builder 86/74 > 9 overflow into Encampment +11 (grow, no UP) (GG 41.6 pts to go)
T70: Encampment 20/107 +11 +chop (23)
T71: Encampment 54/107 +12 (mine) +29 gpt (plantation)
T72: Encampment 66/107 +12
T73: Encampment 78/107 +13 (mine)
T74: Encampment 91/107 +13
T75: Encampment 104/107 (GG 29.6 pts to go)
T76: Encampment complete (10 or 30 turns depending on Strategos)

T86: Earliest GG. Gold in bank: +/-750

Yeah. Spend on 4-5 Legions. Move out next turn.

Kinda shocked I'd actually have that much if I just save it all up. I will just have to make sure to prebuild a bunch of Warriors to make sure I have enough to upgrade.

I also think that cultural borders only have 1 tile of sight, no matter what. That will be important to try and keep the element of surprise. The road from Bengal to Scarborough will be super important--I'll either have to sacrifice a Legion to buy a Trader, or make sure to build one in advance. I will definitely be completing a Market by then.

Actually... Persian would finish its Market on T83, I think. Traders are 220 gold right now (I have no idea what cost formula they are on). But if gold purchase one, that should be juuust early enough to get the road out right before the invasion. Max surprise, max speed. I need to keep in mind that Districts like the Encampment will increase my costs, as will buildings and any units I need to upgrade between now and then.

EDIT: I actually did a quick guestimate and I think Korea could have 300+ gold by T86 if they spend nothing. That's like 3 swordsmen. I can't exactly hide that I'm banking gold, but hopefully Korea spends on some more tiles and stuff.

EDIT 2: Also, civics/policies plans

Mysticism T69 > Autocracy: Conscription, Corvee, Ch Leader, Strategos
Defensive Tactics for 5 turns (T74)
Military Training for 2 turns (T76)
Finish Def Tactics (T77) > Limes, Urban Planning?, Ch Leader, Strategos
Finish Military Tactics 2 turns (T79) > Agoge, Urban Planning?, Ch Leader, Strategos
Into Feudalism
Drama And Poetry (3-4 turns) when GG is ready (T86) > ???, ???, Ch Leader, ???