SPOILER - Dazedroyalty's Thread

[dazedroyalty]

To Scooter:

Scooter,

You're right, we're not far from settler time so things do need to be worked out quickly. Since you were honest with me, I'll be honest with you. I'd prefer if you were able to work something out with SleepingMoogle for the southern spot. Now that he is back communication should be possible again (I concede I forgot he was out of town! Whoops!). However, I do want to work a good relation out between the two of us as I think we could benefit well from working together.

So, I would suggest this path forward. Test the waters with SM. If he sounds favorable to a southern expansion plan, that could benefit us all. If he is adamant about settling north, then we can work out the details of what would be a fair concession for you to have rights to the fish to my south, your north.

Till later,

Dazed

To SleepingMoogle,

SleepingMoogle,

I have to confess that I forgot that you were out of town! Whoops! I did not mean to be anxious or pressure your response.

I have not met any neighbors besides yourself and Scooter. If my guess about the map is correct than my northern neighbor must have sent his warrior north and has not made his way to me yet. If I do meet anyone, I will let you know and pass along your whereabouts. Feel free to do the same for me as well.

I would be glad to agree to avoid your borders until you can establish yourself. The agreement I made with Scooter lasts until T20, ensuring that a warrior along a border would not be a threat to rush in. I would be glad to make the same deal with you. I will not approach your borders if you will avoid mine.

Whiskeyjack will find my borders if he heads 6N and 3E.

Let's stay in touch!

Dazed

[dazedroyalty]

Sorry for not updating the last two turns. Life over the weekend was crazier than most and gmail kept giving me a temporary error (500) for about 30 hours. Not that I needed my email to update about the game, but I was annoyed with the internet in general. So instead I gave Epic 27 some time. Not sure if I'll have it done in time for reporting or not.

Anyways, now that the week is starting, things should go back to normal. Look forward to more of me posting my thoughts and plans while you secretly laugh that I don't know what I'm doing!

[dazedroyalty]

Okay we're back in action. I assume since all the players are pretty good at posting in their threads lurkers know most of the negotiations going on regarding settling (what I wouldn't give to know all that....) so I'm not going to go back and post the diplomatic messages I missed over the weekend unless someone asks. I'll just update the most recent:

From SleepingMoogle:

Hey there Dazedroyalty,

No worries about the email outage. It's not really something you had any influence over, and it's still early enough in the game where it doesn't really matter. In any case, what scooter noted is true, although 'set on taking the site' is probably too strong a wording to describe the situation. Presently I simply favor settling the site as the lay of the land is better for me than the southern tiles.

I did meet my southern neighbour Twinkletoes this turn and sent him an initial greeting. By process of elimination that probably means you'll find Serdoa to your north eventually.

Regards,
-Emperor SleepingMoogle I

and Scooter:

Dazed,

No problem about the delay - yeah I saw your post and figured that was probably the problem... That's bizarre about gmail locking you out - though I had that happen with my personal account a couple weeks ago so I've definitely seen that happen before.

Okay I can do that - yeah once you see the game, if you can give me a description of where it's at that'd be great. Unfortunately I don't think we can trade screenshots until Paper so we'll have to go by description. Should be able to figure it out though.

I actually met Serdoa's warrior just northwest of your borders, so yeah if you move NW or W I think you'll see him, though it depends on where he last moved. He's actually out of sight for me now, but I see his borders now. He's the same distance to you as I am to you, so you'll see either his warrior or his borders pretty quickly. He confirmed that Twinkletoes is to his north and SleepingMoogle has confirmed (just an hour ago actually) that TT is to his south, so we've confirmed the theory that the strip wraps all the way around - for a likely Toroidal world wrap.

Sounds like he's going to settle north because he said he either worked out or is close to a deal that will give him the port between himself and TT, so you should be able to get the port to your north if you don't slack off .

scooter

Basically, it seems like everyone is settling north. I had basically decided in my mind to agree to a settling treaty anyways because there is no hope that I would beat anyone since I'm not EXP. So here's what I asked Scooter to cede to me:



If he agrees, I think that's a pretty good deal. I'll get the coast to my north (hopefully) and then have a city to my southwest to help provide a strong border against Scooter. I didn't push for a free missionary because 1) he might call my bluff, knowing he can get there faster and 2) i'm still hoping for Confucianism in my land!

In the north, I met Serdoa:



I finished the Ivory camp so next turn I have to decide what to do with my worker. I can't chop yet so it's farm or mine. I'm leaning towards farming since I can do that without wasting a movement turn. Since I want to move onto a forest and start chopping the turn I finish BW, it doesn't seem worth it to do one turn of mining.

[Sareln]

Okay we're back in action. I assume since all the players are pretty good at posting in their threads lurkers know most of the negotiations going on regarding settling (what I wouldn't give to know all that....) so I'm not going to go back and post the diplomatic messages I missed over the weekend unless someone asks. I'll just update the most recent:

Umm, I don't. :neenernee. Could you data dump the diplo e-mail pretty please?

[dazedroyalty]

Okay, I'm trying to find an easy way to update on all the diplomacy. If you have read everyone else's threads (i.e. are spoiled) then all you need is the last message in each quote, which is my newest response.

Here was my greeting message to Serdoa (still no response):

Serdoa,

Well met! It's good to make contact with you in the game. I'm glad that you are my neighbor to the North and I look forward to a strong working partnership and lots of fun. How is everything going for you?

It is clear, to me that we are on some type of wrapping island that goes N-S. By process of elimination, TwinkleToes must be to your north. If your warrior moves one tile S or one SE, you will be directly next to my northern border.

I don't have long to write now, but wanted to say hello!

Dazed

Here's the full background with Scooter. Sorry to anyone who's seen it all. If RB has spoiler quotes, I'd use them:

Dazed,

I sent him a message earlier today, so I'm hoping to hear back from him in the not-so-distant future. My preference is on the northern spot, but I will see what I can work out. I'll just be blunt so you are aware of it - I'm going to make absolutely sure that I get one of these two port spots... It's my top priority... I am fine with not getting both of them (that's an unreasonable expectation), but if I don't get a deal worked out with one of the two of you, I will probably have to resort to racing to one of the spots, which will inevitably make one of the two of you not like me very much if I get the site (not what I'd prefer as relations have been very good with both of you so far). It's a tough spot to be in, but I've got to make do with what I've got. I think you'll understand where I'm coming from on this...

So I guess I'm just making that note - that if someone doesn't blink and accept a deal, then I'll do what I have to to get the spot. I don't mean that as a threat at all - I just thought I'd maybe shed a bit more light on why I was pushing that deal. Just a thought - if you end up getting that site, you'd be bordering a holy city... I wouldn't even be *trying* to fight you culturally, but it would happen. 7 culture/turn can be tough to deal with in the early game (9/turn once I add a terrace, 11 after library)... And yes this is just me trying to talk you into going north instead, but you can't blame me for trying right??

Well whatever ends up happening - I think we can all blame/thank Krill for giving us such a crazy start that causes this. I mentioned in my thread that I love that this game already had interesting diplo starting as early as turn 7 or 8, which is a rarity for a no tech trading game.

scooter

Dazed,

Just a quick note as I'm short on time - but SleepingMoogle wants the spot between us... So you could say I'm very set on the spot between me and you. For what it's worth, I've met Serdoa and I get the impression he is more interested in the spot to HIS north, so the spot between you and him should still be open..? So...what's your thoughts? Anything you have in mind that you would like for that spot?

scooter


Scooter,

Sorry for the delay getting back to you. You probably saw in the IT thread that my gmail was down over the weekend. To answer your earlier question, I go to an Anglican church that is a pretty unique combination because it is Anglican, Evangelical and Charismatic. If you're wondering what that is like... hard to describe! :P I have to say, any church in Hawaii sounds pretty great!

Back to the game, I'd be willing to let you settle the fish site. In exchange I'd like to discuss rights to the corn site to my Southwest your NW. I'm at work right now and don't have a recent overview photo in my thread so I can't get into details at the moment. I'll look at it over lunch (I just got the save my way so it'll be coming to you in a few hours) and we can has out details.

Where did you meet Serdoa? Will I find him soon too since I've been loosely following you north?

Dazed

Dazed,

No problem about the delay - yeah I saw your post and figured that was probably the problem... That's bizarre about gmail locking you out - though I had that happen with my personal account a couple weeks ago so I've definitely seen that happen before. That IS a unique combination - very interesting. I can imagine why it's difficult to describe!
Okay I can do that - yeah once you see the game, if you can give me a description of where it's at that'd be great. Unfortunately I don't think we can trade screenshots until Paper so we'll have to go by description. Should be able to figure it out though.

I actually met Serdoa's warrior just northwest of your borders, so yeah if you move NW or W I think you'll see him, though it depends on where he last moved. He's actually out of sight for me now, but I see his borders now. He's the same distance to you as I am to you, so you'll see either his warrior or his borders pretty quickly. He confirmed that Twinkletoes is to his north and SleepingMoogle has confirmed (just an hour ago actually) that TT is to his south, so we've confirmed the theory that the strip wraps all the way around - for a likely Toroidal world wrap.

Sounds like he's going to settle north because he said he either worked out or is close to a deal that will give him the port between himself and TT, so you should be able to get the port to your north if you don't slack off .

scooter



Scooter,

I just met Serdoa too! Thanks for the heads up.

I'm glad we were able to work out a settling agreement rather than having to simply race. For a point of reference, I'll use your irrigated corn because I know we can both see that. The site I would like is 2W and 5N of that corn.

I was looking at the other starts for some of the PBEM and I'm really glad for Krill's hard work on ours. Obviously, there's lots we don't know yet, but I especially appreciated the plains hills start. That speeds everything up.

Dazed

Full update on SleepingMoogle:

SleepingMoogle,

I have to confess that I forgot that you were out of town! Whoops! I did not mean to be anxious or pressure your response.

I have not met any neighbors besides yourself and Scooter. If my guess about the map is correct than my northern neighbor must have sent his warrior north and has not made his way to me yet. If I do meet anyone, I will let you know and pass along your whereabouts. Feel free to do the same for me as well.

I would be glad to agree to avoid your borders until you can establish yourself. The agreement I made with Scooter lasts until T20, ensuring that a warrior along a border would not be a threat to rush in. I would be glad to make the same deal with you. I will not approach your borders if you will avoid mine.

Whiskeyjack will find my borders if he heads 6N and 3E.

Let's stay in touch!

Dazed


Dazedroyalty,

It's good to read that we both prefer to allow each other to grow without the threat of early incursions. If your agreement with scooter lasts until turn 20, I'm happy to set that that turn as the initial limit as well, although extending it further can of course be considered. The Malazan capital of Unta can be found roughly 10 tiles south of Cheddar, so it is quite possible the agreement were to expire before we would even be able to reach other!

In any case, it is my understanding that scooter and yourself are currently in discussion about the land that lies in between your Civs. He has sent me a message to discuss a similar agreement, and it might be interesting to share the fruits of these negotiations with each other. If this is something you prefer to keep confidential though, then I'll understand and respect your decision.

-Emperor SleepingMoogle

SleepingMoogle,

My email cut out over the weekend at a bad time since sensitive diplomatic negotiations are in progress. Scooter tells me your set on taking the site to your north. I have tentatively agreed to allow him to settle straight north in exchange for settling a corn site to my southwest. Nothing is set 100% yet but that's where we are at the moment.

Any other exciting news down south? Up in the north not much is happening.

Dazed

Hey there Dazedroyalty,

No worries about the email outage. It's not really something you had any influence over, and it's still early enough in the game where it doesn't really matter. In any case, what scooter noted is true, although 'set on taking the site' is probably too strong a wording to describe the situation. Presently I simply favor settling the site as the lay of the land is better for me than the southern tiles.

I did meet my southern neighbour Twinkletoes this turn and sent him an initial greeting. By process of elimination that probably means you'll find Serdoa to your north eventually.

Regards,
-Emperor SleepingMoogle

SleepingMoogle,

I just ran into Serdoa but it seems like it will take a while for my southern warrior to meet TT since he is still recovering from that courageous lion battle!

I think it is worked out so that pretty much everyone is moving North for their first city. The only person I don't know about it TT.

Dazed

I think that covers it.

[Sareln]

Excellent, thank you much.

[dazedroyalty]

Let me update you on what I'm thinking about in this game right now. My main thought process has been wishing that I was EXP. If I could do it all over again, I would pick very differently. Of course, it's still early. Maybe my Cre and Org will come back to help out after all.

Diplomatically, I've been thinking about the possibility of contacting a neighbor's neighbor and suggesting we work together against our sandwiched neighbor. But I keep coming back to the fact that focusing on war will put me behind everyone else. I'm not feeling an early rush at the moment unless something unexpected takes place. But it may be worth establishing a relationship in order to have that possibility down the road?

If I were to do such a thing (and it is by no means a given) I would have to pick Serdoa or Scooter as the topic. Serdoa is probably expanding away from me (towards TT) whereas Scooter is expanding towards me. It would be great to take out the neighbor who expanded towards me.

Ultimately, I'm disinclined to go to war. Scooter has played two MP games with me and I went for military rushes in both so he'd probably expect it more.

Demographics are okay. I'm atop land area but a bit behind in food. Not being EXP is slowing down my growth curve. I think I need to continue to focus on getting as much land as a I can so that I have the strong base that I can use to catch up with later.

The spot I requested from Scooter is a good one in my mind. It is on a hill for strong defense if needed. It gets two corn that I think are probably "supposed" to be Scooters. And with my Creative border expansions, I will be in a good spot to seal of the west pretty well. I still haven't gotten a response from him so I don't know for sure that he is agreeing.

[dazedroyalty]

Serdoa's response:

Hi Dazed,

thank you for your kind welcome message and excuse me that I did not write one myself yesterday when I met your warrior. It was kind of hectic for me due to some help I had to give to my employees no matter that I should be in vacation right now.

I would agree with your assesment of our land and you are right that TT is to my north. I have not met the one to his north yet as my warrior there got injured by a lion and has to heal first.

I look forward to the next time we speak with each other.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

[dazedroyalty]

Played another turn!

Here's the world as I know it:



The thought crossed my mind that we could be on a map with multiple long islands/continents like the one we all start on. That would make it interesting because a boat couldn't get to all the islands, just the next one. If that is the case, I can't see there being more than three such island/continents. It's not my first guess, but it is an intriguing idea.

I need to remember to switch EPs to someone else. I am so forgetful when it comes to EPs becuase I practically ignore it in SP. I have visibility on Scooter's Demographics now. This is the one that I found interesting:



It's pretty obvious when you build a warrior at this stage in the game. I am ahead by a warrior and Hunting, I think. I'm not gonna super analyze it but something around that seems right. I also know that the Incan capital is size three now:



(If you didn't pick up the theme I chose, this should give it away)

The fact is that Scooter did not get a warrior immediately after his worker. The small bump is probably from a tech. (Does mining give soldier points? I don't even remember his starting techs right off the top of my head).

I'm thinknig that Scooter may have gone straight to a second worker, which might also explain the discrepancy I noted earlier with his farm finishing faster than mine. But that doesn't explain how he is at size 3 already.

So I went back and checked. Scooter started with Agr and Mys which allowed him to get Buddhism and either mining or hunting. Hunting would allow him to camp his Ivory but Mining is on the way to BW. I know I have all the pieces to figure out what exactly is going on but I'm not sure I have the interest and time to sit down and figure it out.

Here's the demographics:



TwinkleToes is the other one who has a size 2 capital, meaning he must be going straight for a settler.

I am going to move my settler straight north. I'm debating the best location for it. To be on the coast, I have to be on flat ground. Part of me wants to go one SW of the more northern fish in order to ensure cultural control, but the other side of me wants to settle as far south as I can to get both fish in order to create a more compact and secure nation, plus get some river cottage options into play. That is my current plan. Hopefully Serdoa dosen't beat me to it.

Speaking of Serdoa, he responded to my message:

Hi Dazed,

thank you for your kind welcome message and excuse me that I did not write one myself yesterday when I met your warrior. It was kind of hectic for me due to some help I had to give to my employees no matter that I should be in vacation right now.

I would agree with your assesment of our land and you are right that TT is to my north. I have not met the one to his north yet as my warrior there got injured by a lion and has to heal first.

I look forward to the next time we speak with each other.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

Scooter agreed to concede the spot:

Dazed,

Okay that's fine, we are in agreement then. And yeah it definitely speeds up the early turn monotony a little bit... Really glad for that.

scooter

Now, I won't be surprised at all if Scooter tries to go south or somewhere else first now that I've agreed to give him the northern spot. We'll see....

[Ilios]

Mining gives 2k soldier points. Wheel is 4k.