PBEM9 - Ruff Spoiler Thread

[Ruff_Hi]

Well, that answers that question ...



Oracle to Pegasus
Mids to Macki / CIPMAC

Here is where the settler whipped 2 turns ago is going ...



And Woodie II is waterskiing around the islands looking for a suitable location for the settler I just whipped out of my capital ...



City Count
CIPMAC - 6
Kodii - 5
Pegasus - 4
Sylon - 6
Ruff - 4

[Ruff_Hi]

email from Macki re the sugar island ... did he see my warrior?

i was looking at the save today and i was thinking that we may have an agreement about setling the islands.I supose you know where my capitol is, if you dont know i will tel you is near the island wich have a sugar and a fish near it,taht island is very closo to me and because i dont know how to tell diferent i will tell you directly, if you setlle ther will be like an act of agresion towards me.And i will sustain my point early in the game i didn't know that is a island near my capitol and when i discover that Sylon was ahead of an setled there, i will have to adress that somehow.Dont get me wrong i have nothin aginst you but right now i have danger near my borders(ye Sylon could easly gain the circumvalation bonus and boat be any time), and having you ori anybody else on that island will annoy me .I will send a message nearly the same to pegasus and Sylon.And you know i have been seen way beter islands than this one but is very important for my security.And i know is near your land as well but is not near your capitol.
Diplomacy is not my strong point neither english but i hope you understand what i said.

I like the guy ... no pre-amble, no 'dear' or 'wonderous leader' ... just a bald statement. You totally know where you stand ... assuming that he keeps talking to you.

My reply (unsent for now) ...

Hi Macki,

What is your handle / name ... is it Macedonus or Cipri?

I actually have a warrior standing on the sugar island now (or last turn - cannot remember which). I did see your city culture (your capital?) and it was close ... very close. So as not to threaten you, I will not settle that island. I did however put a 'City?' sign on a tile that looked pretty good to me - next time I get the save, I'll tell you which tile I would have settled on that island.

However, I am looking at the other islands to settle - you already have 1 (if not 2) cities in the center (Wonderland) that I cannot hope to get close to (that land is too far away from me). As such, I need some of those islands to compensate.

Don't worry - I totally understand your message so your diplomacy (and English) is clear.

Regards,

Ruff

This note is 'unsent' at the moment as I am unsure about the 'MediumTurquoise' section ... will that tip him off and cause him to rush a settler over there? Should I divert my 'Sealing City' settler to the other large island that Sylon told me about (that I haven't defogged yet)?

Edit: sent it as is, including that island comment.

[Ruff_Hi]

email from Sylon ...

Dear Ruff,

It might be a bit premature, but I would like to float the idea of a settling agreement between us. A settling agreement would prevent aggressive settling, and allow us both to focus on settling other more important areas first, while also freeing up our tech paths for more critical techs, as opposed to being forced to grab iron working immediately. What do you think?

... and I managed to catch him on Google chat ... this is worth reading - lots of good stuff in it ...

• Ruff: you there?
  what did you have in mind re settling?
  
• Sylon: Ah, good morning.
  I'm not too familiar with google chat, but I'll try.
  
• Ruff: morning?
  what is your time zone?
  
• Sylon: GMT+8.
  
• Ruff: wow ... India?
  
• Sylon: It's 11:26am here.
  Singapore.
  
• Ruff: ok
  I'm in NY (USA) so it is 10:27 last night here
  
• Sylon: I see.
  I won't keep you up for too long, then.
  
• Ruff: np
  just been watching Aust clean up England in the ashes
  I have a screenshot of our possible future border ready ... lets discuss!!!
  
• Sylon: Alright then.
  
• Ruff: firstly - all of your land is my land
  lol
  
• Sylon: Well, if you can take the maintenance costs, sure.
  My economy is running at a mere 40% science as it is.
  
• Ruff: ok, I will work towards getting my civ to afford the maintenance cost and then get back to you
  yeah - noticed you really really pushed to get that city in Wonderland
  
• Sylon: Yup. Thessaloniki costs a whopping 7 gold in distance maintenance at size 1.
  Still, the gold makes up for it.
  Now, regarding the settling agreement.
  The first and most important site I have in mind is 1W of the jungle hill, or 4W of Thessaloniki.
  
• Ruff: I can see horses 2 N of some sugar
  lets talk in reference to those horses
  
• Sylon: Alright, let me load up my save. Hang on.
  
• Ruff: ditto
  
• Sylon: My proposed site is 1N of the horses. The sugar goes to you.
  Most of the riverside land is plains, which is still useful, but marginally less so than grassland.
  Is that site alright with you?
  
• Ruff: 1N of horses is flat ... not on a hill
  
• Sylon: Yes, it is. I suppose I could settle 1W of it, on the desert hill, though that gets me a useless coast tile.
  
• Ruff: if it was me, I would be settling on the desert hill 1W of your location
  but ,,, either is totally find with me
  for your info, my next city is going 4S of the horses
  
• Sylon: I'm still weighing the two options; 1N of the horses allows me to reinforce Thessaloniki easily pre-engineering.
  I see.
  Ah, so that explains the worker on the hill.
  (Passed by it this turn)
  
• Ruff: feel free to settle anywhere N of the horses
  pls talk to me if you want to settle in the row containing the horses (or S of that row)
  
• Sylon: Well, I have my eye on a port site on the central sea.
  
• Ruff: oh - and I have a workboat about to enter your land for route defogging purposes - that ok?
  
• Sylon: It's a bit far from the horses, so I'll use Thessaloniki in reference to it.
  Sure.
  
• Ruff: workboat will continue through your land and onto Macki's
  
• Sylon: Alright.
  It is worth noting that Mackoti's coastal capital is 12 tiles away from your newest city... Cubs, I think.
  No, Giants.
  It's 6 tiles S and 6 tiles SE.
  
• Ruff: I found his capital ... well, I assume it is his capital
  S of the sugar / fish island
  
• Sylon: Yes, that's the one.
  Speaking of which, how are the islands over there?
  I can see two islands, though I've only uncovered the southern bits of them.
  
• Ruff: still mostly in the fog
  
• Sylon: I see.
  
• Ruff: did find that banana island you mentioned
  
• Sylon: Ah, yes. I'm still looking to defog the northern portion of that island.
  Speaking of which, Pegasus has access to the archipelago, too.
  
• Sylon: Well, I have my eye on a port site on the central sea. - - ........<--- where is this port city??
  
• Sylon: Either 4S or 3S of Thessaloniki.
  
• Ruff: hmm - would totally seal my off from Wonderland
  
• Sylon: That's true.
  
• Ruff: which is good and bad
  
• Sylon: Then again, it's completely settled already.
  
• Ruff: Wonderland?
  
• Sylon: Pegasus has a settler heading there this turn, so he'll grab the last chunk in the east.
  Yup.
  
• Ruff: I can see Macki's city, yours and the old Barb
  
• Sylon: That went to Kodii.
  Mackoti grabbed the hill 3NE of Thessa.
  
• Ruff: right - so my game plan is going perfectly
  
• Sylon: Sorry, 2NE 1 E.
  
• Ruff: the 4 of you fight each other to death and I just potter along in the background
  
• Sylon: Be sure to grab the islands.
  
• Ruff: wow - did you lose your FP corn
  ?
  
• Sylon: Yup.
  7 food tile, gone just like that.
  
• Ruff: well - I will send you a missionary when I can to help you out
  
• Sylon: He would have got the site east of that, too, with gold/gems/two corn/sheep, if not for Pegasus' settler heading there now.
  
• Ruff: where is peg sending his settler?
  
• Sylon: East of Mackoti's hill city.
  
• Ruff: ok
  now, re that Bay city you mentioned
  do you have any gold, silver, gems that you aren't using?
  
• Sylon: Unfortunately, I only have one gold and gems tile.
  
• Ruff: and have you considered setting 1 SE of the gems?
  still on a river, still picks up the fish
  
• Sylon: Oh, right. That's an option, too.
  That's fine with me also.
  
• Ruff: I would be happier if you settled there
  do you have a religion?
  
• Sylon: Nope.
  Speaking of which, Kodii founded Judaism in Hastings.
  
• Ruff: where is Hastings?
  
• Sylon: ...Quite far away. I'm not sure if you've uncovered any landmarks I can use to describe its location.
  It's next to his capital, so it's on the other side of the world.
  
• Ruff: not in Kodii's land
  but I will put a sign on my map for info
  T85 is automatic NAP renewal time ... next turn
  
• Sylon: 5SE, 9 E of Thessa.
  Well, let's renew it then. Though it's automatic.
  
• Ruff: you happy to renew NAP ... or even push it out to T120?
  
• Sylon: Sure.
  
• Ruff: done re renewal
  and Done to T120
  now - you interested in trading iether gold or gems to me for the length of the game for my first 2 missionaries?
  
• Sylon: Hm... I'll have to think about it.
  And take a look at the map. Hang on.
  
• Ruff: no rush ... I think that we have accomplished enough from this little chat
  
• Sylon: Mm, yes.
  Though, if it's not a bother, could we continue discussing things?
  
• Ruff: where are you re tech? I feel as if I am behind the average
  
• Sylon: Currently teching slowly to currency.
  
• Ruff: sure thing re discussing
  
• Sylon: If I don't, my economy will crash.
  
• Ruff: do you have monarchy?
  
• Sylon: Thankfully, I have scientists. Not so thankfully, Mackoti grabbed the Pyramids.
  Nope.
  
• Ruff: what about CoLs? Maths? IWorking?
  
• Sylon: Math.
  The only religious tech I have is Mysticism, which I started with.
  
• Ruff: for various reasons, I am about half way done on CoLs, Monarch and IW
  keep on swapping around
  
• Sylon: I don't think anyone is running C&D in this game.
  I got bored of it myself at around Turn 25.
  Oh, right. Regarding the fish/sugar island you mentioned earlier.
  Just yesterday, or perhaps the day before, I got a message from Mackoti telling me that if anyone settled there, it's war. Just a heads up.
  
• Ruff: Macki sent me a note about that ... "settle there and I hate you" was basically what he said
  
• Sylon: Of course, I didn't know they had fish and sugar.
  Ah.
  Well, at least he's consistent.
  
• Ruff: I said "sure, no problem ... but I am taking the other islands
  for compensation on not getting any of wonderland
  
• Sylon: Mm. It's a pity you didn't get the GLH.
  
• Ruff: never even got started on it
  
• Sylon: I'll try to share as much info on the islands with you as possible to speed it up.
  I see.
  
• Ruff: my woodie II warrior is currently on the banana island - will have a complete picture of it in 2-3 turns
  
• Sylon: Huh. My workboat will be swinging by for the second time (Two vertical circumnavigations!) in 2-3 turns.
  I'll be sure to say hi.
  
• Ruff: have you done the E/W circumnav yet?
  
• Sylon: Nope. There is no route.
  
• Ruff: ahh
  
• Sylon: I looked through Pegasus' lands, too, but no luck.
  
• Ruff: hey ... interested in gifting me that WB?
  I need some clams netted
  
• Sylon: Hm. Alright then. It'll be too long to get it back to my core anyway.
  
• Ruff: you can have the one that is entering your land once I can see a route to your cities (for the city trade)
  
• Sylon: Alright. That sounds good.
  
• Ruff: perfect
  anything else? this chat is getting better and better
  
• Sylon: Though, it's currently 2SE of the wines on Centralia Minor, so it might be a little too far away.
  
• Ruff: ??? last comment has me confused
  
• Sylon: Eastern end of Banana island.
  So it's about 7 turns or so from your lands. Possibly 8 or 9.
  
• Ruff: no no
  there are some clams on the Western end of banana island
  those are the ones I need netting in about 2-3 turns
  
• Sylon: Ah, I see.
  You've settled there already?
  
• Ruff: in about 2-3 turns
  
• Sylon: I see. I should arrive there, then.
  
• Ruff: right - perfect
  
• Sylon: Unless, of course, there are two banana islands.
  
• Ruff: good point
  
• Sylon: In which then it would be quite the comedy.
  
• Ruff: well - the end of the banana island I can see has wine, silk, beaver, dye
  and banana
  
• Sylon: I can see wines, silk, deer and crabs. I don't have the eastern end unfogged.
  
• Ruff: ok - guess I should just cross my fingers
  
• Sylon: Vertically, my workboat is about ten or so tiles to the south of Kodii's lands.
  
• Ruff: please come by the Southern route ... clams are on the Southern shore
  
• Sylon: Alright.
  Hm.
  3 SW, 9 S of Hastings.
  
• Ruff: not that I can see hastings ')
  
• Sylon: Are we on the right island? Because the banana island I know is quite far away from Giants.
  Don't you have it marked on your map?
  
• Ruff: sort of
  
• Sylon: Well, I suppose it is quite a headache to map tiles in the fog.
  Well, I suppose we'll just have to cross our fingers.
  
• Ruff: well - lets park the 2 banana island theory until I have defogged it a little more
  
• Sylon: Alright then.
  What about the workboat?
  
• Ruff: well - if we find each other ... then YES PLS
  if not ... then ... I don't know
  
• Sylon: I could use your workboat, but can also whip one out of Thermon.
  I was originally thinking of swapping workboat + Something else for a missionary.
  
• Ruff: I want to find as many of your cities as possible
  need to be able to see them to trade with them
  
• Sylon: Then take your time and scout around.
  
• Ruff: I'll tell those sailors to get their paddles out
  
• Sylon: I don't think so. I got trade routes on a city Mackoti founded which I didn't unfog.
  Or rather, they were founded after I scouted.
  That might have been it.
  
• Ruff: hmm - maybe I only need to be able to trade with you
  
• Sylon: I've defogged the tiles they are on, however.
  
• Ruff: ok - I take it all back, I already have trade routes wtih your cities
  
• Sylon: Well, in case it's the first one, I suggest scouting with the boat which found fish/sugar island. Look for Rhodos, to the SW of it.
  I see.
  Ah, right. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I founded Rhodos to the West of Mackoti's capital.
  It's on an island, so trade routes are worth 3 commerce.
  
• Ruff: Macki mentioned it
  said you could boat him from it
  
• Sylon: Two commerce if it isn't foreign.
  I can. It's one turn from my borders to Mackoti's capital.
  
• Ruff: he cannot be happy about that
  
• Sylon: If I had gotten circumnavigation, I could hit his capital without him even seeing my galleys.
  
• Ruff: how well protected is your city in Wonderland?
  
• Sylon: He's not, but he still signed an NAP with me until T125.
  
• Ruff: well done you!!
  
• Sylon: Two chariots, with copper, holkans and archers.
  Also, it was his idea.
  I trimmed his original offer of NAP until T150 to T125.
  
• Ruff: guess your closeness to him forced his NAP hand
  gives him comfort too
  
• Sylon: Perhaps. It would seem he doesn't want to antagonise me.
  Anyway, moving on to the Eastern front.
  
• Ruff: did you hear anything re the Peg / Kodii war?
  
• Sylon: Pegasus and Kodii will be competing for the islands between them.
  Ah, yes. A quick border skirmish.
  Kodii has since founded Boundary II.
  
• Ruff: that cost Kodii a city
  same spot?
  
• Sylon: 1SW, on a hull.
  
• Ruff: ok
  and now Peg is sticking his head into Wonderland
  sounds like a fun time is brewing over there
  
• Sylon: Well, I can't reveal too much. Open border honour, and all. Hastings I found with my workboat before OB, so it's fine.
  Mm. Thankfully, I'm not bordering him.
  It's actually quite a hard city to defend.
  (Not in borders yet, so it's fine)
  The pass to his lands is extremely narrow, and just on the edge of the Mali-Turkish border.
  
• Ruff: narrow pass is good and bad
  
• Sylon: He can't place it any further north, since there's mountains there.
  In this case, it's entirely bad. It's only narrow in one direction.
  The other side is Kodii's borders.
  In other words, Kodii can cut his city off at will.
  
• Ruff: so why is Peg putting it out there?
  
• Sylon: Gold. Gems. Two corns, sheep. Grassland everywhere else.
  
• Ruff: grassland is a total waste of time
  cannot cottage it
  gold and gems I can understand
  but you have to hold it
  
• Sylon: That's plains you're thinking of.
  
• Ruff: ok, you can cottage it
  but Kodii can then pillage
  
• Sylon: True.
  Well, he has a handful of tiles in what appears to be his backlines.
  
• Ruff: yeah - he only has 4 cities (like me)
  but I feel as if I have quite a few places for more cities
  
• Sylon: He has a massive military, that's for sure.
  You're right, you do.
  
• Ruff: I, on the other hand, have cardboard cuts
  NO TELLING OTHERS THAT!!
  
• Sylon: Most of his land is unfogged, but I can see the edges of it.
  It's plain to everyone who looks at the power graph.
  
• Ruff: lol
  I know
  
• Sylon: His island holdings are also squeezy, with Mackoti on one side and Kodii to his north.
  His future island holdings, that is.
  
• Ruff: so he has Kodii to his North and to his South / East?
  nasty
  
• Sylon: Kodii to North and South. Mackoti to West. East is coast.
  
• Ruff: but if he can take Kodii out - then he will have quite a block of space
  
• Sylon: Skirmishers.
  Creative would also make it extremely tough later on.
  
• Ruff: ok - so it might take him a while then
  
• Sylon: Janissaries might be able to do something, but by then I suspect there would be a tech gap already.
  Also, they signed peace some time ago.
  Oh, but Pegasus got the Oracle.
  
• Ruff: yeah - knew that
  what did he take?
  
• Sylon: Beats me. Probably Metal Casting.
  We'll know for sure if he builds the Colossus.
  
• Ruff: I was starting to think about using it for Civil Service
  
• Sylon: I don't think it would have gone unbuilt that long.
  
• Ruff: but he finished it the turn I was thinking of starting it
  I wasn't really worried either way
  
• Sylon: Funny. I was thinking the same thing, except with the Pyramids.
  I finished Masonry the turn Mackoti finished the Pyramids.
  He has Stone and Marble, by the way.
  Yes, both of them.
  Also, you've probably already figured this out, but everyone as spices.
  
• Ruff: and fur
  
• Sylon: And fur, yes.
  
• Ruff: I've been looking for some resources to trade
  do you have stone?
  I have marble
  
• Sylon: You should get a spare source of Sugar if you settle the islands.
  I have Stone, though I haven't settled it yet.
  I'll trade it to you for free if you when you want to build the Maoi.
  
• Ruff: ahh - I see possible future trade options for building various buildings
  
• Sylon: So long as I'm not using it, of course.
  
• Ruff: and ditto Marble for HEpic, etc
  
• Sylon: Alright. Thanks.
  Speaking of which, Mackoti has a ten EXP Quecha already.
  
• Ruff: how?
  
• Sylon: Oh, wait. You already knew that.
  Beats me.
  It was exploring in your borders some turns back.
  Combat one, Woodsman I and II.
  
• Ruff: was that the one in my land?
  I cannot see him now so I can't check
  
• Sylon: It was.
  
• Ruff: I haven't seen any barbarians
  
• Sylon: I've got a few lurking around Thessa. Killed them for EXP.
  Unfortunately they don't give much when you kill them with chariots.
  
• Ruff: 1XP
  you need to win a 20% battle to land 4 or 5
  
• Sylon: 2 if you attack, actually. Though it was in a forest, so that may have been it.
  
• Ruff: or find a hut that gives you 5XP for free
  
• Sylon: There aren't any huts, alas.
  
• Ruff: playing another game where that happened
  
• Sylon: Though with the way luck has been going in this game, I thankful for that.
  
• Ruff: warrior is at 9 now and I just found another barb warrior ... very happy about that!
  anyway - time for me to turn in now
  
• Sylon: Alright then. Sorry for keeping you.
  
• Ruff: really enjoyed our chat
  you ok with me posting for lurkers?
  
• Sylon: So did I!
  Sure.
  I'll just give a summary of it in mine. Nobody would read such a long chat log anyway.
  Well then. Good night.
  And have a very merry christmas in advance.
  
• Ruff: you too - have a good rest of your Sunday
  

Summary of chat

• NAP extended to T125
  
• Settlement agreement for land N and E of 'sealer city'
  
• Chatter about Macki
  
• Possible future trade of gems / gold for missionaries
  
• swap of workboats (assuming we are talking about the same banana island)
  
• situation re Peg and Kodii
  
• agreement to swap stone / marble to speed buildings if possible
  

[Ruff_Hi]

reply from Macki ...

Actualy are both, when i started i played along with a friend wich now does't have internet conection anymore(he is living in small village far away and his modem its broken).Ty for understanding,I hopr you'll get all the islands, i asked that one just because of his strategical pozition.
Regards,
Mackoti

... and if I take it at face value, he has no interest in the islands apart from Fish / Sugar island.

[novice]

Combat one, Woodsman I and II.

That's a 5xp quecha as they start with Combat one.

[Ruff_Hi]

That's a 5xp quecha as they start with Combat one.

yeah - remembered that myself after the chat. Haven't passed that info back to Sylon yet.

[Ruff_Hi]

Settled Yankees a few turns ago (the sealing city), just need to chop all of the jungle away. This turn, I settled 'Blue Jays' - my first non-mainland city on what I am calling Banana Island and what Sylon calls 'Centralia Minor'. Expenses jumped but at least I've put my mark on the islands. I've finished iron working and will have iron at a future city site.

Tech is currently sitting on Polytheism while I save gold - once I get enough gold (and 2 or 3 libraries finish), tech will be on Calendar (I have quite a few Calendar resources that need improving) then Currency (waiting for others to finish that tech so I get the research bonus).

Here is the land that I know (note that the land mass at the top is the same as the land mass at the bottom).

[Ruff_Hi]

Sylon and I chatted about a WB swap - he gifted me his touring WB for Banana-Land and I forgot to gift him my WB. I've asked him what he wants me to do with it.

I have been trying to talk to Peg with zero luck. Will keep trying.

Sent this to Kodii

Hi Kodii,

Just touching base to see how things are going? I'm 5 turns late contacting you about our automatic NAP extension - are you happy to extend it to T115? Are you interested in extending it out to T125?

How are your relationships with the others? I talk to Sylon a fair bit, a little bit with Macki (got to laugh at his city names!) and not so much with Peg.

I see you have a galley out near Banana-Land ... what are your objectives regarding the islands?

Ruff

... and this to Macki ...

Hi Macedonus,

Just touching base to see how things are going? I saw your new city name and had to laugh - seems like you are being very clear with your diplo. How are things working out with Peg, Sylon and Kodii?

Ruff

I don't want to talk about a NAP extension with Macki as I think that may be playing right into his hands. If he can get a long NAP with Sylon and myself, then he can totally concentrate on either Peg or Kodii. I would think he would be looking at taking our Kodii as Peg seems to be trailing (ie weaker).

[Ruff_Hi]

email to Sylon ...

Sylon,

I am getting concerned about Macki. He is doing very well and I wanted to talk to you about how we should respond. He has a nap with you through to T125? Or is it T115? I have a NAP with him through to T100 and I'm not in a hurry to extend that. If I did, he could totally ignore us while working on either Peg or Kodii with the aim of taking the other out. If it was me, I would be trying to work with Peg and take out Kodii.

Maybe if a war was to break out over there, then that might open the door for me (us?) launching a war against Macki. Something to consider.

Ruff

No hidden messages there - I am saying exactly what I mean.

[Bobchillingworth]

So, are you still playing the game as a consummate liar, or did you decide to abandon the idea?