TheArchduke makes the transition from CIV V to CIV IV..

[SevenSpirits]

ORG is worth something, yes, but how do you quantify it? I know that I build courthouses and cities everywhere but that that's not good play, so ORG would work great for me (making a bad decision I tend to make cost less), but how about for someone who has their building and expansion discipline down pat? Compared to say FIN/EXP/CRE, how would it rate with you at the helm?

In fact, I quantified it in my pbem43 thread. Go check it out!

I think I see what you're saying about the multipliers. Pretty much all of my analysis so far has been slider independent, so I tend to look at raw commerce/hammer/food output. It doesn't help that the cost of an individual citizen isn't made very clear in the base interface. Do you have a rule of thumb you use for that? I know it varies heavily on map and distance.

I use the estimate of 2f 1c. More info here: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5589 (link has no spoilers)

What makes a library key? Is it just when that library can get you your early academy or is the keystone that lets you whip out the universities for a fast Oxford?

I mean to get the early academy, yeah.

Local/Global optimization comment makes sense to me. Not sure how I'd effectively evaluate which "cheap" techs do me the most good to go out of my way for the beeline. Here in this game, for instance, it's pretty clear that I needed to get currency and civil service before pushing towards guilds; but it's not clear if getting Construction/Engineering pre-guilds will buy me anything, if I can just keep buying Xenon off.

Yeah, it's really hard to evaluate things like that.

[Sareln]

Gold gold gold. Azza pushes a war Chariot near an area where I just have settlers and workers. No standing deals with #1 or #2, but I don't think either of them is as opportunistic to try and stab #6. After all, they don't want me running into the arms of the other.

Just in case though, I offer to buy the War Chariot for 30 GP. Perhaps he'll bite? Who doesn't like gold after all? (That's a 50% markup over the WC's hammer cost...)

[Sareln]

Azza - Nil
Catwalk - Rolling 20T NAP, OB, Borders Agreement
Xenon - OB
Waterbat - No Contact
Superjm - NAP until T98, OB

Current Diplomacy State (T95):

Azza - OB
Catwalk - Rolling NAP, OB, Some spices gifted.
Xenon - NAP until 104, 200 GP due to him T104
Waterbat - OB
Superjm - NAP until T98 OB

Want extensions on NAPs from Neighbors. Can probably just get them from Superjm and Catwalk, will probably offer Xenon GPT instead of lump sums unless he state a preference; eg, for the next round offer 11 GPT or 250 at end of term.

[Sareln]

At the end of T97, we passed Xenon in score to move into 5th place!!

We're going to whip some of that away next turn, but we'll also be starting a Golden Age, transitioning into Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, and Organized Religion, and basically revving the engine.

I'm really tempted to see if we can land Philosophy in the GA and then transition to Pacifism at the end, but I think we'd be better served getting our basics in order. That and Org Religion is a perfectly fine civic for what we find ourselves doing (building a bunch of new cities!).

[Sareln]

Superjm won't respond to our NAP request?

I guess I try and kill him with Phracts then?

[Sareln]

GA has been going for two turns now. I've one-turned Construction and Horseback Riding, and it looks like I'll be able to one-turn Metalcasting as well (Gotta love the neighbor bonus right?).

At that point, I need to decide whether to go Machinery or Feudalism First (need both to get to guilds). I'm inclined to Feud. Basically, do I want to put my overflow hammers into Crossbows or Longbows? .

[Sareln]

GA So Far:

#1 in GNP at the expense of every other Category, but boy howdy is that a helluva #1. I wonder how long before someone tries to call this bluff of bluffs? They have about 3 - 4 more turns (50%+ on that estimate) before I can whip Cataphracts all freaking day.




In Foreign News Catwalk wardec'd Azza. It is yet to be seen whether or not this is an opportunistic strike or the start of something bigger. As an interesting point, though I'm not sure how much it matters, Xenon has landed Catwalk's Christianity (AP) and so could be forced into the war if he is not careful / willing to pay the unhappy penalty. Bad place to be, I should spread my own chosen religion (Buddhism) to make sure that doesn't happen to me.

If they have a secret deal in place to bum-rush Azza this will be fascinating.

Next Topic:

Here's Adrianople:



Sadly I'm not going to be able to get the GP out before the end of the GA since I'll be dropping Caste for Slavery on the last turn of my GA, and even worse we're going to be running the risk of popping a Great Spy. I can't really do a whole lot about that. Here's the GP plan:

• Merchant - Research Printing Press, Bulb Guilds, Whip Phracts, and go kill someone with them, probably Superjm .
  
• Scientist - Research Printing Press, Bulb Education, Tech Drafting and Rifles whilst using whips to produce Cataphracts for Deterrent and 2-mover Smashers post Collateral.
  
• Spy - Cry. Pop a 2nd GP out of the Capital post-haste (alot of GP points stored up there from the wonders) and grab another GA.
  

[Sareln]

Should have done this a while ago, and a lot of these things have been floating along in my head, but let's go through them shall we?

• Forbidden Palace
  
• Globe Theatre
  
• Hermitage
  
• Heroic Epic
  
• Ironworks
  
• Moai Statues
  
• Mt. Rushmore
  
• National Epic
  
• National Park
  
• Oxford University
  
• Red Cross
  
• Wall Street
  
• West Point
  

Lime are things worth building in a game where you're behind and thinking of a culture vic.

1. Constantinople - Oxford University / Iron Works
   
   Bureaucratic Capital, high science multiplier to take advantage of the commerce, Iron Works to stack on top of the Hammer Bonus. Iron Works ended up here because there's a severe shortage of hammers available in my core, and the Capital has the best long term production with plenty of river tiles.
   
   
   
2. Adrianople - National Epic / Hermitage or National Park
   
   With the densest concentration of food available, this city is a natural fit for a National Epic and therefore GP Farm. However it's also a border city, so the Hermitage will help me secure this border if we stay in a peace setting. In the event of a run at a culture victory, Adrianople would be one of my 3 alongside Constantinople (lots of wonder culture already in place with cottages to go) and Trebizond (tons of food to run more artists). Yes, I'm hedging. The other option is to build the National Park here, which would be worth about 3 specialists.
   
   
   
3. Trebizond - Globe Theater / Wall Street or Hermitage
   
   Lots of grassland and access to fresh water, along with a grass corn and grass rice tile it doesn't need to share means I can grow this city until the food runs out. Post-Bio, that's a lot of food. In the meantime, running hereditary rule I can double-whip Cataphracts in a central location and put the overflow towards the Globe - my research target post Cataphracts & Unis (depending upon the GP).
   
   Later on in the game, add Wall Street and run merchants here with full gold multipliers to help support the highest science slider possible. This seems to be intuitively good, but I can pull up the numbers later.
   
   In a cultural push, Trebizond could probably run more Artists than the NE fueled Adrianople at full capacity, but getting the NE into Adrianople earlier rather than later (Trebizond isn't in position to do it right now!).
   
   
   
4. Iconium - Moai Statues / Heroic Epic
   
   Good food, some hammers available, and I really need more production, so Iconium with it's 9 water tiles fits the bill here. Pigs, Cows, Clams, and Whales give the city some needed growth and production as well. Since it's reasonably high production post Moai, add the HE when it becomes available and pump units and ships out of it as we need them.
   

[Sareln]

GA has been going for two turns now. I've one-turned Construction and Horseback Riding, and it looks like I'll be able to one-turn Metalcasting as well (Gotta love the neighbor bonus right?).

At that point, I need to decide whether to go Machinery or Feudalism First (need both to get to guilds). I'm inclined to Feud. Basically, do I want to put my overflow hammers into Crossbows or Longbows? .

This decision ended up being Machinery. Larger neighbor known tech bonus to funnel my GA GNP through. Does anyone know if the known neighbor bonus gets normalized out of overflow like the known tech bonus does?

[Sareln]

Oooor Superjm could come rolling across the border with a bunch of Knights, that could happen too!

Time to whip units and make him work for it. Catapults in near cities, HA's in far cities, double whips next turn (can't revolt into slavery this turn) then dry-whips into Maces for near (need high str. units) and more HA's for far.

From there, I think I tech towards Engineering (Pikes & Road Movement).

God Bless theArchduke for keeping his inner cities on hills though. .

I'm going to lose that Great Person though

In other news, Catwalk landed Taj and double-revolted into Nationalism and Theocracy.