Woden's Wondrous World of China

[Woden]

Turn 44

The barb camp was still there and no barbs around, +50 gold for me!   I am bringing the slinger back to upgrade and protection the settler for city 3, should be out in 6 turns. With the gold, I bought the expensive entertainment district tile in MS for 110 gold. I wanted to buy it before costs went up in the next couple of turns when I finish PP. As a side note, since I have more civics then techs and there are more techs (67) than civics (50) in the game, anything that scales because of progress through the tree is going to be dependent on the number of civics I have, at least for now. 

I move the archer and warrior to my north up and see...




More desert, potential Petra site. I also reveal a barb camp, will attack next turn. There is more land up here than I though, may be able to cramp a few cities but yet to find fresh water. I mine the mercury and shift the tiles around in MS. 




I work the mercury instead of one of the bananas because I am hitting the happy cap and want to slow growth. This will bring production and science up a little. I will shift back once I get the first settler out, or maybe not.

I ended up spending a little time adjusting my pins....




I decided I want my city #3 on the stone. This will bring the campus location into 2nd ring and cost less to buy. I want to crank that out shortly after I settle it and will chop it out after I finish the Pyramids.  I moved the Hanging Gardens to the rice in city #4, then I can get a commercial district where I had the Hanging Gardens, to add another +1 culture to the planned theater district. I also planned out City #5. I am going to start a holy district in this city,so I can put down the Mahabodhi Temple in the woods. I also marked a location for the Terracotta Army in JC. Now I have locations for everything but Petra. 

I discovered something looking at the victory screens. If you look at cultural victory....




I think you can tell who is putting out the most culture per turn. I know Russia has a higher culture rate than me (at least at the start of the turn, JC grew and my culture is now larger). But it looks like TheArchduke is listed higher than me, I think he was putting out more culture than me. I will check again next turn to see if I am on the top or at least in 2 turns when the monument is done in JC.

[kjn]

City #3 is rather distant from MS. You don't view that as an issue?

[Woden]

City #3 is rather distant from MS. You don't view that as an issue?

Not really, by settling it and city #5, I pretty much cut off access to my land. I think it might be vulnerable at first but I am think of starting a warrior as its first build and keeping an archer around. I am also not going to stop building settler in the next 30 or so turns. I plan on kicking 3 out of MS and then shifting duty to City #4. I actually am think of harvesting the rice right when I settle it and starting a settler right away then use the overflow from the Pyramids to finish it and just keep on making settlers until my land is full. City #4 has enough food that it should grow, even while making settlers. I won't be able to produce them very fast, so I will also kick out 1 or 2 from city #3 and #5 for that side.  Once the 3 settlers are out of MS and the builders are out of JC, I am going to start making units to protect myself. 

Also, once I get the 100% Wall's card, I will throw down walls in all my front line cities and my capital. I should be pretty safe unless somebody tries an early rush but I plan on pretty defensive front line cities. I am also going to send my currnet builder over there once I quarry the stone. That way, when the Pyramids finish I can chop out the campus but if someone tries to move on the city before teh Pyramids are done, I could chop out a unit.

[Woden]

Turn 45

Not much to report. Wheel finishes, my warrior and slinger are heading back to MS. Barb spearman attacks archer, I attack spearman and I did a lot more damage to him then he did to me. Oledavy got a civic and my science rate has increased to the point of reducing the turn-times to the cost 50 science techs down to 2 turns.




I should speed right through them. I might wait to chop the settler until I have more food in the box to keep up the science rate and maybe mask the settler. May even chop the jungle to have the city for sure grow. Builder, monument, and PP due next turn. JC should grab the 2nd stone in 2 turns. I am actually a little worried about that tile. It looks like Russia is working on a Larva and my quest for Nan Madol is to build a holy site, if that is his too, it will probably grab the tile because it will have 2 envoys. Hopefully he is at least 3 turns out from finishing.

[Woden]

Turn 46

I actually played this turn this morning but did not have time to write it up, so I will have 2 turn posts back-to-back.

Big turn...




I get my first real government. I select Autocracy for the extra 10% wonder production. G&R due in 12 turns and then I will start building wonders. Mt first policies are...




I select Conscription for my 2 archers, Agoge because I want to build a few units, Ilkum for builder production and Colonization. I will switch of Ilkum(?) in 12 turns for Corvee. Then I will start building wonders (I will get to that in a minute). Vilnius gives me the inspiration for Theology, which is useless because I would have gotten it when I build Stonehenge. I should have out the envoy into Zanzibar.  Speaking of city-states, I got new quests since I moved into the Classical Era: Zanzibar wants a great scientist (should get), Vilnius wants a trade route (do-able); and Toronto wants the inspiration for G&R (won't be getting that one). 

Builder finishes in MS, start a settler (due in 5). I move the settler to chop the forest in the west. After I passed the turn, I changed my mind and I am going to have him chop the jungle next to MS. Does anybody know if growth from jungle chops is instant? Might be away of hiding the settler. Monument finishes in JC, start a builder. Fun thing, finishing the monument instantly grabbed the 2nd stone, last turn it had 3 turns left. Awesome, I need that stone for builders. Here's a look inside JC. 




Picture says warrior but I changed it to builder. I am working all 2/2/0 tiles, this city has no high food tiles. Up north, I move the archer one tile closer to the barb camp and attack the barb spearman. I should have done that last turn, then I could have taken the camp this turn. I will get it next turn and kill the spearman the turn after. he will get a free shot but I the archer has a promotion and will heal after I kill him. Warrior moves north, finds more land. That was about it for the turn. Didn't take any screenshots of the score, so nothing to report. 

Now that I am in Autocracy and wonder building starts in 12 turns, I will lay out how i am going to get 4 or 5 builders, 2 warriors, and 2 settlers out in time to build wonders. I have been racking my brain to find the best road map to set things up to pound out some wonders but not hinder expansion or protection. I am going to need addition units because everything I want to do is far away and Russia's scout is still hanging around. If he doesn't leave in the next few turns, I might take him out. Anyways, I'm going to try and abuse overflow a little to help production. Ilkum provides +30% production but Agoge provides +50% production. I am builder in JC right now. By the time he is finished I will have the stone tile and will use the builder sitting inside MS to quarry it before he leaves for city #3. It will take the new builder 2 turns to get to the stone. mean while I will be working on a warrior that will take 3 turns. By the time I am ready to harvest the stone, the warrior will have only 1 turn left and I will get 50% more out of the stone than 30% more. I will roll that overflow into the builder and it should only take 1 or 2 turns to complete. I will repeat this with the other stone and hopefully get another warrior and builder out in 4 or 5 turns and then work on another builder right around the time G&R completes. 

In MS, I am building a settler (100 cogs) right now, out in 5 turns. I will speed that up with the jungle chop from my new builder in a couple of turns. It should take a few turns off of it, so it might complete on T48 or T49. I will then start another settler for city #4 and chop the forest where my entertainment district is going. With the chop, that one (120 cogs) should only take 3 or 4 turns . Next, i will build a builder in about 5 turns. 

Now, my current 4 charge builder will chop the jungle and the forest and then I will have him move to city #4 to harvest the rice when it is settled and then move back to MS to wait for the Pyramids to finish. My current 2 charge builder will quarry the stone at MS and then move to city #3. the first builder out of JC will harvest both stones and then move to city #4 to put a charge into the Pyramids and then move to MS to do some wonder building once the Pyramids are complete. the second builder out of JC will head directly to city #4 to build the pyramids . The third builder out of JC will go to MS to work on wonders and the last builder out of MS will go to city 4 to complete the Pyramids and then build the Hanging Gardens. I probably will need one more builder (probably out of JC) to finish the Oracle and Stonehenge in MS. I do get a free builder from the Pyramids, so maybe have him complete the last 2 wonders and build 1 for the Colosseum. I plan on overflowing the wonders in MS into an entertainment district, should get something near 50 cogs. 

Once city #4 is settled, I am going to harvest the rice and start a settler right away. then overflow the Pyramids and Hanging Gardens into it (if it is not done by then). In city #3, I probably will start a monument at first, then when the Pyramids are complete, chop two of the forests into a campus and start a library so I can build the Great Library. I was think of building a unit first but I thin I will need a guard unit for the builder when I move him over there and will use the first warrior out of JC.  

so that is my plan for the next 15-17 turns. By the end, I should have at least 4 wonders and 2 on the way and I should be fairly protected. My northern units should be back by then unless there is a bunch of land in the north and they can guard the 3rd settler for city #5 out of MS I plan on building after the builder. I will complete the entertainment district after the settler, depending on how long it takes. I will also try and overflow the Colosseum into a commercial district.

[Woden]

Turn 46

I actually played this turn this morning but did not have time to write it up, so I will have 2 turn posts back-to-back.

Big turn...




I get my first real government. I select Autocracy for the extra 10% wonder production. G&R due in 12 turns and then I will start building wonders. Mt first policies are...




I select Conscription for my 2 archers, Agoge because I want to build a few units, Ilkum for builder production and Colonization. I will switch of Ilkum(?) in 12 turns for Corvee. Then I will start building wonders (I will get to that in a minute). Vilnius gives me the inspiration for Theology, which is useless because I would have gotten it when I build Stonehenge. I should have out the envoy into Zanzibar.  Speaking of city-states, I got new quests since I moved into the Classical Era: Zanzibar wants a great scientist (should get), Vilnius wants a trade route (do-able); and Toronto wants the inspiration for G&R (won't be getting that one). 

Builder finishes in MS, start a settler (due in 5). I move the settler to chop the forest in the west. After I passed the turn, I changed my mind and I am going to have him chop the jungle next to MS. Does anybody know if growth from jungle chops is instant? Might be away of hiding the settler. Monument finishes in JC, start a builder. Fun thing, finishing the monument instantly grabbed the 2nd stone, last turn it had 3 turns left. Awesome, I need that stone for builders. Here's a look inside JC. 




Picture says warrior but I changed it to builder. I am working all 2/2/0 tiles, this city has no high food tiles. Up north, I move the archer one tile closer to the barb camp and attack the barb spearman. I should have done that last turn, then I could have taken the camp this turn. I will get it next turn and kill the spearman the turn after. he will get a free shot but I the archer has a promotion and will heal after I kill him. Warrior moves north, finds more land. That was about it for the turn. Didn't take any screenshots of the score, so nothing to report. 

Now that I am in Autocracy and wonder building starts in 12 turns, I will lay out how i am going to get 4 or 5 builders, 2 warriors, and 2 settlers out in time to build wonders. I have been racking my brain to find the best road map to set things up to pound out some wonders but not hinder expansion or protection. I am going to need addition units because everything I want to do is far away and Russia's scout is still hanging around. If he doesn't leave in the next few turns, I might take him out. Anyways, I'm going to try and abuse overflow a little to help production. Ilkum provides +30% production but Agoge provides +50% production. I am builder in JC right now. By the time he is finished I will have the stone tile and will use the builder sitting inside MS to quarry it before he leaves for city #3. It will take the new builder 2 turns to get to the stone. mean while I will be working on a warrior that will take 3 turns. By the time I am ready to harvest the stone, the warrior will have only 1 turn left and I will get 50% more out of the stone than 30% more. I will roll that overflow into the builder and it should only take 1 or 2 turns to complete. I will repeat this with the other stone and hopefully get another warrior and builder out in 4 or 5 turns and then work on another builder right around the time G&R completes. 

In MS, I am building a settler (100 cogs) right now, out in 5 turns. I will speed that up with the jungle chop from my new builder in a couple of turns. It should take a few turns off of it, so it might complete on T48 or T49. I will then start another settler for city #4 and chop the forest where my entertainment district is going. With the chop, that one (120 cogs) should only take 3 or 4 turns . Next, i will build a builder in about 5 turns. 

Now, my current 4 charge builder will chop the jungle and the forest and then I will have him move to city #4 to harvest the rice when it is settled and then move back to MS to wait for the Pyramids to finish. My current 2 charge builder will quarry the stone at MS and then move to city #3. the first builder out of JC will harvest both stones and then move to city #4 to put a charge into the Pyramids and then move to MS to do some wonder building once the Pyramids are complete. the second builder out of JC will head directly to city #4 to build the pyramids . The third builder out of JC will go to MS to work on wonders and the last builder out of MS will go to city 4 to complete the Pyramids and then build the Hanging Gardens. I probably will need one more builder (probably out of JC) to finish the Oracle and Stonehenge in MS. I do get a free builder from the Pyramids, so maybe have him complete the last 2 wonders and build 1 for the Colosseum. I plan on overflowing the wonders in MS into an entertainment district, should get something near 50 cogs. 

Once city #4 is settled, I am going to harvest the rice and start a settler right away. then overflow the Pyramids and Hanging Gardens into it (if it is not done by then). In city #3, I probably will start a monument at first, then when the Pyramids are complete, chop two of the forests into a campus and start a library so I can build the Great Library. I was think of building a unit first but I thin I will need a guard unit for the builder when I move him over there and will use the first warrior out of JC.  

so that is my plan for the next 15-17 turns. By the end, I should have at least 4 wonders and 2 on the way and I should be fairly protected. My northern units should be back by then unless there is a bunch of land in the north and they can guard the 3rd settler for city #5 out of MS I plan on building after the builder. I will complete the entertainment district after the settler, depending on how long it takes. I will also try and overflow the Colosseum into a commercial district. 

I will then need a few builders to improve my land but I might be close to feudalism by then for +7 charge builders. I won't take long much to improve new cities when I am there.

[Woden]

Turn 47

Another day with two turns, one before work and one after but unfortunately I had to work late today and did not get the save passed in time for Singaboy, so tomorrow will be a 1 turn day (maybe not).

First, I have my archer take the camp for +50 gold!




He also reveals a land bridge. I guess the coast north of MS is an inland sea. I think I might put a city on the forested hill for a canal city. Then I can move ships in and out of here if I want to build a navy. I can also get a +2 harbor between the fish and crab. I may actual build Petra hear because...




I move my southern warrior up on his way back to JC and find a slinger sitting on the sheep. I bet he is planning his next city somewhere here. The only fresh water spots are on the silver, the sheep and the tile north east of the sheep. I hope he settles on the sheep or silver, otherwise he might grab all the tiles southwest of JC. I might want to buy one of them next turn or at least keep my warrior close to see when his settler is coming. I should go and stand next to his slinger and see what he does. Actually, what I really should do, since I have the production and tech edge, is build a bunch of units and take his ass out but then I won't get my wonders and I really want to see what impact that has on the game. Anyways, I will attack soon enough. Also, I have caught up to oledavy in tech, we both have 7 (oh ya, I finished irrigation this turn and started writing). I know from the GP screen he has a campus (making 3 ppt) and I am pretty sure he has Currency. He should be cruising through the techs, which means he is researching the expensive ones. Maybe Mathematics or Horseback Riding? He could be going for an early Petra. I don't want to let him have it, I could build it in less than 25 turns from now. We will have to see. Of coarse, I could be paranoid but in SP games where I find a nice desert location, I gear my entire civ to try and get it out as soon as possible. Hmm, I think the settler out of city #4 will go up there and I will need a builder as soon as it is founded. And of coarse I will have to get to Math. We will see how thing go. 

Anyways, his stupid scout is still around. Ok, time to force him out. 




I move the slinger out of JC, north along the road. My archer is on the jungle tile protecting the builder and I have another slinger is the east. I will converge on him next turn, if he doesn't get the picture I will kill him. then maybe I will take out his slinger in the south just for fun. I know he has a warrior down by Vilnius but I think he has a couple more somewhere and maybe another slinger. If I had 295 gold, I might think of using Vilnius' army to attack him (if you could do that, never tried). Anybody ever try attacking someone with a just a city state's army (without you yourself declaring war)?

[Woden]

Turn 48

Another 2 turn day! I must say that I am really liking the pace of this game. Hopefully we can keep it up with the weekend coming up.

First, I move the warrior in the north, west and find more land....




I wonder if there is a land bridge here to a portion of the continent and the some of the other civs are not east but west? I will send the warrior to find out. Could be blocked somehow. Archer in the north kills spearman and will promote next turn. In the south, the slinger is gone but when I move my warrior up towards JC, I find...




A Russian warrior standing on the tile I suspected he was planning on settling his next city. I buy the jungle hill next to the encampment before he takes all the southern tiles. I will probably buy 1 or 2 if I can get the gold before he settles. I want the flat tiles south of the stone for farms. Or the tile picker takes one of the south ones instead of the north one it is saying. Fat chance!

At MS, I chop the jungle for 23 food and 23 production (actually 33.5 with Colonization).




I hope this means the forest chop will be worth 67 cogs! Settler due next turn, then I will start a settler and it should finish with the forest chop 3 turns of production. Russia's scout is sitting on the road so I fortify the slinger. Hopefully he moves out next turn. I don't want him hanging around because I am going to move a lot of builders around and don't want him to snipe one if I forget to protect it.

[Woden]

Turn 49

Second of the day!

Finish writing, start Astrology. Up north, my archer shoots at the barb scout...




The screen say the should die but he didn't, still has a few hit points. Must have gotten a bad dice role. I will kill him next turn. Settler out of MS and I move him to meet up with the slinger I had out scouting. I start another settler in MS and move the archer and builder towards the forest chop. 

I get a notification that "An unmet player has been defeated". My first thought was did someone get taken out but everybody is still on the top part of the screen. 




I check the score and oledavy jumps in score. He must have killed a city-state near him.  I also noticed he is leading in religious victory. He must have moved into Autocracy. I think this because when I started it, I couldn't figure out why I was making 1 faith/turn then I realized it was Autocracy. That or he is working a faith generating tile but my spidey senses are think that if he would go into Autocracy if he want to build a wonder, such as Petra or the Pyramids. I will have to see, nothing changes in my plan. It would suck if he built the Pyramids, I really want the extra charge. 

While I was checking the victory screen...




Russia's military power jumped between turns. I think he finished archer and upgraded a few slingers because he has little gold left. Also noticed he is making more gold than me at +18 and has an envoy in Zanzibar. I also saw something curious down by Vilnius...




Where is he going with that warrior? Hopefully east but is he trying to sneak up by my capital to snipe something? I will have to keep track of him. i wonder if he realizes I have vision on Vilnius? Also looks like he is building another Lavra in his second city. He might he going for a religion. He doesn't have any Lavras finished yet because he is not producing any GP points. He better not be thinking of attacking right now., I have a higher science rate, culture rate and can kick out units quickly. I will have to keep an eye out for him.

[Woden]

So it looks like I won't get a turn today as TheArchduke posted he is out for 24 hours for a wedding but I wanted to write down thoughts on oledavy and try to work out what he is doing and if he is going to build a wonder. The following will probably be ramblings but I am finding as I write these posts, it really helps think about what is going on.

First, let's break down what I know.

He seems to be taking the lead and starting to snowball. He captured a city-state and his score went from 49 to 60 with the empire score going form 19 (2 cities and 9 population) to 30 (!) (3 cities and 15 population). He might have grown this turn too because I think a city loses a population when captured so the CS would have been pop 7 and Toronto is only size 6, so I guess sit is possible for a size 7 CS. But he also has at least a campus, which I think gives +3 to empire score, so he could have 3 cities, 12 population, and 1 district.

Civic-wise, he has 7 civics and I am pretty sure he has PP finished and probably skip Military Tradition or Mysticism. He is probably getting a lot of culture from attacking the CS. I am 90% sure he went for Autocracy because he is producing at least 1 faith per turn. Of coarse, the captured city could have had a faith resource. I don't think he has one in another city because it was only this turn that he pulled ahead of me on the religion victory and since he is before me in turn order, he would be 1st if tied in faith rate. I am also pretty sure a captured city doesn't produce anything on the turn of capture, so that might eliminate a faith resource until next turn. I am not 100% on that, I could be wrong. There is really no way with Gorgo's ability to work out his culture rate, so I have to rely on number of civics.

Tech-wise, we are tied right now with 8 a piece. I have be kicking out the cheap techs to get the wonders available and he has a larger science rate. So, he must be working on the more expensive techs. I know he has Currency since he went into the classical era and that is the most logical choice. You do want to get CDs up as fast as possible for extra gold and trade routes. I will be researching that after Astrology and this game will probably be the latest I get a commercial hub up and running. Lets see if I can figure out his techs. He has the first 3 (Mining, AH, and Pottery), Writing, Currency and I would guess Archery, Bronze Working. This would give him the option to researching the expensive Math, Horseback Riding, and Iron Working. Now, let's try and figure out his research rate. I am pretty sure he met a science CS first for +2 and he has a campus (assume a +2 adjacency bonus) If he is Suzerain, it is another +2 for the campus. He could have completed a quest and earned at least 1 envoy from a civic, so it is totally possible. His palace gives him +2 and 12 population gives +8.4. That gives him an assumed rate of 16.4 beakers per turn and a range of 14.4 to 19.4, depending on adjacency bonus. Any which way you look at it, it is a lot better than my 9.6. He does have Currency, which I don't but we should not be at the same number of techs, unless he is researching something expensive. Iron Working and Horseback Riding are 120 beaker techs and Math is 200. This is where my I become suspicious that he went into Autocracy.

Autocracy provides +1 yields to the capital and 10% wonder construction. +1 yield is nice but really not that big of deal. I would have thought that he would take Classical Republic, especially since he is running the +2 GP scientist card. 2 economic slots, 1 diplo, and 1 wild plus the extra wild card. He could have 2 military slots with the wild cards. I think he is save Oligarchy in case someone attacks him but that one also provides 2 wild cards slots with Gorgo's ability. Maybe he didn't want the diplo slot? But most likely is that he wants a wonder. I think the 4 best early wonders are Petra, Pyramids, Colosseum, and the Oracle, in that order. He is not going to get the Colosseum before me, because I can build it faster and am going to overflow some of the other wonders into the entertainment district. He would have to start the Pyramids and Oracle in the next few turns or chop a few forests for them (which means at least 1 builder) and still have to work it for 5-10 turns. Petra is the only real concern I have right now. If he is by a desert like Russia, he might look to get it? Let me work out how fast he could build it. Let say he gets Math in ~8 turns, he has been working on something for a few turns and he won't have the eureka yet. Petra costs 400 cogs and let's assume he has 2 forest chops/stone within the city that provide 50 cogs each. If he runs the +15% production card and Autocracy, he can get 1.25 out of each chop for a total of 150 cogs off the cost of Petra. That leaves 250 cogs to build it. If he sends a few traders to his other cities and has a commercial district by then, he could get a few extra hammers into a city, so lets say the base production of the city is 20, 25 with card and Autocracy. So he could potentially have it on as little as 18 turns. Now, the city probably will not produce 20 cogs unless it is his capital or the city-state he just captured and still that might be a stretch and he would have to shift almost all of his civilization to it. I would say a good window would be 20 to 25 turns.

How fast can I build it? Settler for city #4 will be out on T52, settled on T56 (probably before city #3). Builder that chops the forest will harvest the the rice right away and it will start a settler. G & R will finish on T57 and a builder (out of MS) should be there on T58-T59 to start building the Pyramids (done on T63-T64) and Hanging Gardens shortly after. The overflow should help and maybe I can chop a forest. Assume settler out on T65 with 6 turns of travel, settling on T72. I will bring the builder from the Pyramid with and I should have Math by the time I settle the city, so Petra could be done on T76, which is 26 turns away. Oh that will be close. I hope he is not on a beeline for it and finds a few other things to do. I could save a bunch of 1 charge builders and cu t a few turns off of it or I could send a settler out of MS to the spot but I want to build a few builders for the other wonders. I will see if I can cut off a few turns as turns progress. Of coarse he could be researching Horseback riding and not even thinking about wonders. I guess I will know if he gets it or after the game and I read his thread or if I am getting close and there is a lot of traffic in the lurkers thread.

I wish I wasn't so interested in seeing the impact of building all the ancient wonder in 1 civ. You could never do it in a SP game because the AI loves to build them. I am counting on the fact that everybody else will be focused on developing and I can accelerate that with wonders. My Petra spot is kind of a waste with only 2 desert tiles (that I can see) and a couple of flat desert tiles. If I could get it down by Russia, the game would be pretty much over with 13 desert mines that would produce 2/3/2 with mines and getting up to 2/6/2 later. I had a Petra city in one game with only 7 desert tiles and it built a spaceport and launched satellites before my capital could finish its spaceport started on the same turn. If I didn't care about the other wonders, I would build an army now and go and take the spot but that would mean I couldn't get the other wonders up quickly and it would delay everything another 30 turns. Besides, there is a lot of expansion I need to do in the next 30 turns, so I will settle for my Petra spot. I guess we will see if anybody else wants any of them soon.

Sorry for the ramblings but it is helpful to try and figure out where another player is, I might have to do this analysis with everybody. Maybe next time there is a slow down in turns.