OSG-31: Land of the Lounge Lizards

[haphazard1]

Some really good turns, Psillycyber! Solid progress against the Alkari, and lots of new tech acquired. Finally we get enough range to start making contact with the other races and learn more about the diplomatic situation. Glad we survived the council vote.

Klackon tech is very scary. I think we have to avoid war with them for now -- they would chew up our fleets with ease, and even our new fusion bombs would not do much more than scratch their worlds. And if they hit our planets with doom virus.... Taking the war to the birds, and then maybe seeing if we can pick up more territory from the minor powers, seems like a better bet than trying to hit the bugs. If we can keep the peace with them, it does not look like we would lose the council vote any time soon. Although that could change if they keep pulling ahead with atmo terraforming and more terraforming tech to grow their worlds. Maybe we can chase them down with more time, if we gain more territory first?

[Psillycyber]

There really aren't a whole lot of non-Klackon worlds to the east. We can now leapfrog to the two Darlok worlds (their capital is 8 parsecs from us, which we can now reach), so that's an option while we tech to anti-matter bombs (no point in starting fights with the Klackons until we get better bombs). And there's always the Bulrathi. Actually, our ground combat is decent enough that we could probably invade against them, especially considering how many high-pop worlds we have. So, yeah, there are other options if we want to keep our fleets busy until we have the tech to go after the Klackons.

There's also the possibility that conquering Altair will put us in contact with the Meklar. Although I'd be hesitant to pick a fight with the Meklar since they are one of the few races that will still vote for us (along with the Darloks), and we might need the Meklar vote in 2449 if we don't have better terraforming tech by then. Let's see..assimilating Alkari territory will give us another 3 votes (13 total), so if the total votes are fewer than 39 in 2449, we'd have a veto bloc. (There were 35 total votes in 2424). And if we don't pick a fight with the Darloks, and they don't get conquered by the Klackons, I guess we could count on their votes too. But I have to wonder how long it will be before the Klackons start putting shields on their ships that nullify Darlok missiles and allow the Klacks to start taking over the Darlok worlds...

[haphazard1]

It does seem likely that the Klackons will eventually take over the minor powers that they are at war with -- their tech and production advantage will just be too great for the smaller empires to resist. So we will lose those votes eventually...unless we take them over ourselves.

We need to be careful not to lose a council vote, so timing specific war declarations or attacks may be tricky. But I think we will need to grab any worlds we can get to give us enough mass to try to compete with the bugs. It just does not look like going directly against the Klackons would work with our current relative tech situation.

[shallow_thought]

Skimmed the report over breakfast - made for nice, happy reading. I'll pick the save up later and have a look.

There's only two ways to win this:
a) Beat the Klackons
b) Get votes from everyone except the Klackons

... and I'd have to double check if the second is even viable with the way the bugs are expanding. So (a) it is. With Anti-matter bombs lined up next in weapons research. 10-40 dmg against 21-layer shields should open up some options. Doesn't mean I won't look to snipe some worlds from someone else (Darloks?) in the meantime if diplo and military constraints allow (to deny them to the bugs if nothing else). Plus, still some Alkari worlds to pick off.

[Psillycyber]

The Klackons already have a veto bloc of votes to themselves, so it's not a question of if we will have to go to war against them to win the game, but when.

To be honest, as soon as we get antimatter bombs wouldn't be a horrible time to attack them since they have yet to put their newest, scariest toys on any of their ships. By that point, we will probably have consolidated our Alkari conquests and finished Class VI shields, which will make our planets impervious to any of their theoretical megabolt cannons or hard beams, as well as any nuke bombers that they might care to build. The only thing that could harm us then would be doom virus ships, and that's if they were lucky enough to put the doom viruses on an all-around decent ship (such as one with fast speed and cloaking). If their doom virus design is mediocre, it can still be countered with repulsor beams or enough merc missile bases or warp dissipators or a fighter fleet, etc.

Note that I have not build a shield or missile base at Kulthos yet, since the Alkari have not been enough of a threat to justify it yet, and we still have a NAP with the Klacks. But you'll definitely want to build bases there and at our other new Alkari conquests before taking a swing at the Klackons...

[haphazard1]

We will certainly have to go to war with the Klackons to win. But when is the best time? Do we feel we are improving our relative position, or falling further behind? If the bugs are still widening the gap, then we need to be thinking about offense as soon as we have any chance of hurting them -- mostly likely when Anti Matter Bombs is available. (Very glad now that I picked that tech, we will certainly need it.) But if we think we can make up some ground by continuing to absorb planets from the minor powers, then maybe we keep the peace and attack later.

[Ianus]

The best time to attack is when we can. At their current tech levels AM bombs will make cracking their PLANETS a cinch. It's going to be their fleets we need to counter to win, as we did using Repulsors against the birds. So how do we do that?
Looking at their current tech, we can't. With 11 points of shielding on their ships (the worst case scenario) combined with BC7 our Heavy Ions will do basically nothing. Maybe if we can get Fusion beams from the bugs that would let us wear down their ships. The good news is that the bugs don't have a lot of 2-range guns to shoot back at us. Torpedo boats might be a good option if we can get those.

A desperation strategy might be suicide bomber fleets designed to take out bases before being destroyed, then send invasion forces once Klackons ships are distracted, although that is a cheap trick against the AI.

[haphazard1]

Hmmm. AM bombs could crack their planets if we could get past (or around) their fleets. Could be costly in terms of shot down transports and lost bombers, but just going for saturation tactics and hoping to take a planet or two with factories intact might be an option. If we gained useful tech to help close the gap, it could be worth doing even at very high cost.

What about defense? If we can not successfully engage the bug fleets in space, then they will be able to hit our worlds with doom virus ships or possibly bombs (not sure what their bomb tech currently looks like, but we have way less shielding than they do). Starting a war where we can't defend our own planets does not seem like a prudent move. But if we could defend our worlds successfully (maybe a combination of warp dissapator and repulsors?), then risking war for a chance at evening the tech gap could work.

[Psillycyber]

Hey Ianus, we already have fusion beams.  I traded warp dissipator to the Bulrathi for it.  It's in the report. 

My guess is, our best bet against the Bulrathi would be a huge ship with BCV, Class VI shields, sublight engines, class-2 maneuverability, Zortrium, Battle Scanner, Repulsor Beam, Auto-repair, and however many heavy fusion beams and other assorted weapons (maybe a few NPGs for good measure) we can fit.  

Alternatively, if the Klackons are fielding swarms of low-hp fighters, we could try to steal ion stream projector from the Bulrathi and hit them with that.  The ion stream projector always reduces enemy hp by 20%, or a minimum of 1 FOR ALL SHIPS OR BASES IN THE STACK, so if the Klackons are relying on hundreds of 3-hp or 4-hp fighters, that would be the easy way to counter them.  3-4 combat rounds until all ships in the stack are toast.  Note that cloaking or shielding will make no difference for them if we are hitting them with ion stream projectors, as projectors always hit.  (Hence, even battle computers are not strictly a necessity for projector ships, except for initiative).  

Even medium ships are vulnerable to ion stream projectors.  It takes more turns, but it is doable.  A duralloy medium will go from 27hp to 22, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0.  14 rounds of combat to wipe out the entire stack.  Heck, even a stack of Duralloy larges only takes 22 rounds of combat to reduce down to 0hp, even without any other damage being dealt.  And Duralloy huges?  32 turns.  And the highest possible hp ship, a huge with Neutronium II armor and 3600hp?  39 rounds.  So, if we can snag ion stream projector tech from the Bulrathi and build a ship that can survive indefinitely against the Klackons (maybe a huge with max defenses and repulsors, auto-repair, and ion-stream projector (skipping the battle computer)), we could probably whittle down any Klackon fleet for the foreseeable future.

[Ianus]

Huh, I totally missed that Psillycyber! In that case we have the means to break the Klackons: Repulsor huges with as many Heavy Fusion beams as we can manage, plus all of our other toys. Yay!