Japper and Cornflakes' team thread

[Mikeforall]

yes, we would deff benefit from a road connection, as wel as the resulting trade post.

You might want to consider building a second settler first before continuing the campus, especially if Early Empire will still take a while for you to research. 
After all, we are quite late with settling, so securing a border-front takes priority. 
Especially in your case, since the northwest, where I suspect a landbridge to be if our continent is even slightly mirrored, is still terra incognita. 


There is also something I would like to discuss with you.
It seems so far that we got 'weaved' continents, with all lying in line, two with southern tundra and two with northern tundra. I deduce this based on the fact that my landbridge seems to continue north / northwest, and neither of us got a connection in the lower south. 
This means that we will most likely have 2 oceans: a lower and a higher one. Perhaps even three if we have an inland ocean, though I do not expect that. 
this brings me to you: 
If that lake west of you stretches all the way north, we might be able to make a connection between the oceans by placing cities on the one-tile landbridges. 
This would make it easier for us to maintain a small fleet, since we would be able to move between oceans using the canal-like properties of those cities. 

We however do need to take into account then that those canal-city spots might not be the best settlement spots in terms of usable tiles.

[Japper007]

-I already have Early Empire, have had for several turns, this is why I went with the Campus for now, since I'm about to 50% State Workforce.

-With England in the game, I doubt we have much business going for water control at all. We are much better of going for land-dominance with our Classical/Medieval UU combo... I could try to reroute my settler (who is on his way north) to the one tile choke on the landbridge, it'd be an utter garbage city though and completely exposed to both land and sea strikes. For now I think getting a strong city up there is more important than a canal city.

Also I finish Bronze Working next turn so I should probably consider encampment placement too, now that I do like to have on that one tile choke!

[Mikeforall]

-I already have Early Empire, have had for several turns, this is why I went with the Campus for now, since I'm about to 50% State Workforce.

Apologies, I didn't see you post about it and since we are allies, I do not see your closed borders ingame. 
Doesn't change my standpoint on the settler however. I am fine with the campus, but don't let those 10 turns make you be forward-settled by our yet-unknown neighbour. 

-With England in the game, I doubt we have much business going for water control at all. We are much better of going for land-dominance with our Classical/Medieval UU combo... I could try to reroute my settler (who is on his way north) to the one tile choke on the landbridge, it'd be an utter garbage city though and completely exposed to both land and sea strikes. For now I think getting a strong city up there is more important than a canal city.

It is exactly bécause England is in the game, that we might want to consider canal cities. After all, since we cannot match them in mid-game and late-game navy, it would be more beneficial for us to have one navy that can move around both seas, rather than two separate navies. 
It is not about water control, but about being able to fend off a naval attack if needed. We do need some sort of navy anyways, even if it is just for defence. 

I can however not speak for tiles, so I leave the decision of such a city to you. After all, having a city with just bad tiles is not good either.

[Japper007]

After discovering BW, things are looking up for the canal city to the north:



A source of Iron makes this spot far more attractive, both in terms of yields and for strategic purposes. I'm definitely grabbing it now, it just means I'll need more backfill cities to cover all resources

[Mikeforall]

Turn 33-35

Three rather uneventful turns, have been played. 
I have been pondering about some international questions and future plans, but I will post those tomorrow, likely together with the turn 36 report. 
For now I will limit myself to some domestic happenings. 


Probably the most eventful happening of these turns:



The barbs around the capital have been defeated (although I never saw back that barb-archer after it disappeared in the fog. 
However, just as the barbs were cleared, a scout shows up. It gets a mark above its head and leaves southwest, towards a part of yet-unexplored tundra. 
I swiftly follow it with my warrior. It seems I won't be able to have it escort the settler when it finishes, but I don't like the idea of horses in front of my capital either. 
Due to the AI somehow double-crossing the river (see screenshot) I manage to catch up to the scout, and will slay it next turn. 

As you probably can also see on the background of the above screenshot, we now have improved horses! The trade with Jasper succeeded this time, and we bought a builder from the money. 
With the silk also being improved on the last turn (35) the settler went down to just two more turns! it sure is nice to have 15 hammers in the capital, although it will drop to 13 after the settler finishes. 


Now, talking about settlers:


After much self-debate (and an after-the-fact discussion with Jasper) I decided to move my future settlement spot one tile north-west, onto the rice. 
My reasons for this are as follows:
1. despite me really liking the three hammers on the original spot [forested plains hill], the new spot is better in terms of resources. Not only does it bring all land luxuries (two tea and one silk) in the first two city rings, it also gives access to wales in the third ring. 
And, with the scouting of my warrior last turn, I now found out this new spot gives access to deer in the third ring! Since I have no idea what lies north of this passage, I don't know whether that deer will be contested or not. 
Oh well, we will see. 
2. It is a better strategic position. 
Yes I know, it is not on a hill. However, being next to the mountain will make it easier to close off this passage. Anyone who wants to pass the city, be it friend or foe, now needs to take two extra turns to pass through the east due to the hilly terrain, whereas otherwise you could just cross over the rice. 
With the hills, forests and swamp the western side is also very nice unit-blocking terrain. I will also trow an encampment somewhere in that region, making passing via the western side even more troublesome. 
And lastly, it doesn't directly border the sea. Although the cliffs would prevent a direct land invasion, ships will have more problems attacking the new location. 
Ofcourse, settling next to the sea would also have its benefits, but since this city is meant as a border stronghold I prefer to play on the defensive. My third city, near Nan Madol, will be on the coast already, so all coast-related stuff can be done there. 

Now, all that needs to be done is get a trader and run it to this new bordertown. After all, the supply line is quite long due to the vast forests inbetween my capital and the eastern passage. 
Wel that, and perhaps get some military units ready, just in case. Not as much for human players, as wel as the barbs. Just south of the new location is an encampment, and who knows what we will find north...

[Mikeforall]

Oh, and for those that did pay attention to the screenshots of the previous post:

Yes, there are two different techs in there. 
The reason for that is that last turn [34] I tried some different tech-routes to see how long they would take and what kind of benefits it might give, and I forgot to switch back to Bronze Working afterwards.
Oh wel, having put one turn into Masonry instead of Bronze Working isn't a disaster. I was planning on finishing it relatively fast anyways, or at least research it till 50%. 

And now that we are on the topic of boosts:
Jasper, Next turn I will start working on State Workforce, for which I already have the boost. So if you stop your civilising of that civic at 50%, I will get you the boost for it before you will even get it from your campus.

[Japper007]

So my pantheon (finally) came up this turn

Way I saw it I had two options, the one that added one food to my cocoa, or the one that added one culture to my bananas and Citrus (and eventually Spices).



Now to decide let's take a look at my lands in stratview:



Seeing a lot of spices tiles to claim as well as more citrus, I went with the culture one, also I have plenty of food to begin with and culture is more valuable in the long run.

This turn I also sent a Trader to Upasana to get an additional 3 gold income (I'm at 20 already, and adding some Commercial Hubs soon too, because of the Kongo bonus to them)

[Mikeforall]

have you killed that barbarian scout north of your warrior yet? Otherwise it might fogbust your settler [hence why I placed the escort-pin].

[Mikeforall]

Turn 36:

This was a very interesting turn indeed, with quite some happenings. 
To start with the most major thing of today (or yesterday actually): 




Ãranyaka, the city of Ritual Sacrifice, one of the four Vadas (or Vedas in English) has been founded! 
Currently, it doesn't look all to neat. To be honest, it looks shit. 
Its real beauty, as discussed before, is in its second tile ring resources, its great strategic location, and the mountain adjacency (wait... did I even mention the mountain before? not sure. Anyways...).
Now as you can see, there is no really good district location available yet (not gonna sacrifice that forested hill for just a +1 campus adjacency) so I slot in a Monument and Granary for now. 
Not that they will get much production into them, since the city is set to food-focus. Once it has three pop and a nice tile-expansion in the second ring, I will switch to build-mode and trow an encampment down. 




In terms of research, we unlock Military tradition. We will now be working towards civilising State Workforce and Political Philosophy. 
Why military tradition first, you might ask? Simple: the flanking bonus. 
Why need the flanking bonus? also simple: expected war. 

Because yes, we are going to war... against the Barbarians!
Now, I posted a while ago about the barbcamp in the east, now just below Ãranyaka. 
My warrior in the south slayed the barbarian scout this turn, and discovered yet another camp in the tundra there, close to one of my future tundra settlement locations. 
And, to make matters worse, this happened: 



With my settler being one turn away from finishing, a group of barbs decided to spawn exactly below the location of my third city, and also block the passage towards said location!


So, to sum all up:
Both expansion spots for my settler, one north and one south, have been compromised by barbs. And my second city is laying 5 tiles away from the barbarian encampment that launched an attack on my capital earlier. 


This means that my original plan of putting out a trader after the second settler (or wel, that was plan B already actually, so guess we are going for plan C now) is off the hook for now. There are too many barbs around me. 
Instead I will focus on unit production. 
First of all, with the finishing of Military Tradition I am able to change policies. I trow out Discipline and slot in Agoge. Despite the +5 being nice, +50% production for ancient and classical melee and ranged units is more beneficial for now. 
I will leave Colonisation in for now to make use of the production overflow next turn, but after State Workforce finishes in 6 turns from now I will exchange it for Ilkum to get two builders out for Ãranyaka and my third settlement. Ofcourse, these builders will be build áfter I got a small army out. Or three small armies to be exact. 
With the camps all being a fair amount away from the capital, in different directions, and with the terrain between me and said camps, it will take ages to clear out those camps with just one army. 
Thus, I will split my to-build forces in small batches. The first one will go to the north, to clear the camp for the second settler. 
The second batch will go south and clear the tundracamp, as wel as explore the rest of the yet-unknown tundra. 
The third 'batch' will merely be a supporting unit, most likely an archer, going to the east to help the sling (or perhaps by then upgraded-archer) and warrior clear the camp there. 
The northern and eastern batch will be merged later on to form a frontier army on the eastern landbridge. 
The southern army will be the anti-barb force to keep the tundra and other areas clean, and if needed help Jasper out if something unexpected occurs west. 

With this setup of three armies, I expect the barbs to be wiped relatively quickly. 
That will make sure I will be able to run a trader between Upãsanã and Ãranyaka sooner rather than later. 
However, as I said before I will be building builders after the military units are finished. So, what about said trader? 
I have asked Jasper to send me some of his GPT (he will have 20gpt in a few turns), and he agreed to send me 10 to 12 gpt. This will make sure that by the time the area between the two towns is safe, I will have the money to buy a trader. 
The route between the cities will ofcourse bring prosperity, but more importantly enable me to move units quickly from one place to another. And since Jasper has a trader running between our caps, we will be able to reach both the eastern and southern borders a lot faster. 

And this is something of great importance. The religious race slowed my military development down quite a bit, but other players have not been sitting still. The Classical team (as I have dubbed Bricksulla [heh, the name really sticks] and Singaboy's team) and the Atheïst team (obvious who these two are) have been working quite hard on their military development. The Imperial team isn't doing very impressive in this aspect, but they got Defender of the Faith, which gives them quite a good defensive bonus. 
Especially Nubia seems to be going haywire on military. It is sort of to be expected: the civ is one that is best played in a military way after all.
Whether it was a good decision for them is a second though. Just as we sacrificed military in the religious race, they sacrificed civics, technology ánd religion in favour of a quick military buildup. 
Especially the science part will come to hit them later, when their army will get outdated and needs to be upgraded. I have no idea whether they even will be able to get the gold together. The Nubian mining bonus only gives +2 gold. 
Then again, if they are planning an early archer rush, such a strategy might be beneficial. Still, from my point of view (which basically exists out of limited score-reading so far, so not that trust-able) sacrificing religion, districts, development, civics and technology (wew, quite a list that is) just for the chance of an early rush, even if it is the most efficient way of playing your civ, is a great risk, and one I would not take on a continental map like this. 
Although with Nubia's ridiculous bonus for archer-production you won't run into the trouble of a game-over if your army is wiped, the oudated argument still stands firm.

Wew, that was quite the rant. My apologies against the lurkers, who will probably be screaming I got a lot wrong here, but I am simply trying to deduce what is going on at team Atheïst. 
The way they are playing is not really my play style, so unlike the two other teams, whose cultural victory-inspirations are as easy to deduce as our own, I have difficulty predicting what the atheïsts are up to. 
Are they really sacrificing everything just to take out óne player/team? Did they just have a horrible start, with a lot of barb-problems? Do they want to take the most use out of a military city state? 
Oh wel, as Jasper told me, it is not our problem (yet). I am prob overreacting a bit because of the delay in the trade road. I tend to think in doom-scenarios, and the one currently playing in my head is Ãranyaka being surprise-attacked with my units too far away to support it in time, worsened by the movement-penalties of the terrain. 

Not that an immediate surprise attack is likely, So far the north looks like this:


No threat in the vicinity, though I did find a desert... with a lake. Oddly reminds me of my own starting position. Judging this is a standard map, it could very well be near the starting positions of other players. 
In that case, my border town would be quite a daring forward settle. 
Still, it is settled on one of the better defensible positions, so even if I had the scouting knowledge of now 5 turns ago, I would prob still have settled Ãranyaka on its current position. 
Lets hope I won't be regretting those words soon... 

Anyways, the scouting will be over for now. I will heal the unit and then move it back to help the slinger clear out the barbcamp. If that goes well, I don't need the third-batch support unit. 
If it does not go so well (that barbcamp is activated after all), I will send some reinforcements later on, though those will take at least 8 turns to walk there. 


Alright, lets look to something brigher, though it isn't mine.

 
I quite like the terrain here. Not necessarily for resources, but for strategic value, sure. 
A lot of fresh-water lakes, which are always good for cities. Not as much forest, which is a bummer for Kongo, but still nice overall. 
Besides, as I mentioned previously, there might be the possibility to create a Suez canal here, connecting two seas together, if there is also a one-tile land-bridge in the north. 
the terrain is very defensible, meaning that an western invader will think twice before crossing it. Especially when Ngao Mbeba can be produced, those one-tile straits will become real choking points. 
Lets hope Nubia is on that side, because with this terrain-unit combo their archers are of little use 


...Though obviously that is a joke. Japper bordering team Atheïst is the worst scenario possible.
After all, we need one of his cities to pick up a different religion in order for our relic-trick to work. 
Bordering a nation without a religion would... wel, prob be the best counter possible against our team. 




TL;DR
going on a military spree to kill those pestering barbs that threaten our expansion spots ánd our second city. 
Getting gold from Jasper for a trader. 
stuff got planted, finished, and switched. 
I like ranting against players who got too much of something I lack. 


Also, a small question for the lurkers, be it dead-ones or undead-ones. 
As you might have seen I am shortening the teamnames with nicknames. I have been doing this for a while already in my private conversation with Jasper, but I decided a few posts ago to do it here too because... wel, it is just a tiny bit easier than typing out full names. 
What do you think of this? Do you think the naming [Classical Team, Imperial Team, Atheïst Team] is fitting? or is it confusing? 
Especially when people think it is confusing, I will refrain from using nicknames and use full names or team numbers instead. 
This is my first time doing an online PBEM with frequent turn-rapport posting, so any comment, be it positive or negative, is appreciated 

[Cornflakes]

The team names are fairly straightforward, definitely easier for me to follow than if you just used the team number Thanks for your detailed thoughts and plans! Really enjoying following along