[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

[ljubljana]

Okay, sounds great! If the spot by RtN is in range of the city, I'll probably need to use it for now to take the walls down ASAP, but will clear it as soon as those are gone, if that's okay.

Any thoughts on IZs vs. caravels at Linear A/B? I'm really torn between the need to catch up on WE production and the need for 15t of caravel production (probably 6-7 caravels). My brain says we need the latter but my wretched buildery heart says the former is too good to pass up...

[Woden]

How long to build the IZs? And what are they worth? Will it shave a turn off of a caravel? If not, I say pump a few caravels out first and then we can reconsider.

I am starting to send traders to Linear B and have 3 open routes so I can help you along a bit. Each route is 2 production, 2 food for you while I run the card and I have no plans of getting rid of it anytime soon.

[ljubljana]

15 turns for aqueduct + IZ, +6/+7 hammers before the doubling card (which I don't have space to run anyways really). They are both at roughly 24 hammers/turn (4-turn caravels) and need 8 more for 3-turn caravels, so it probably would save a turn off with some micro, but it will be a while before it pays for itself. I'm going to start caravels now and we can re-think if there is no immediate war on t168, I think.

I'm also going to swap into Wisselbanken once I run out of essential domestic routes and do the same, btw. With most cities essentially up to size, I don't see as much need for Isolationism as I did earlier, so those might come out ahead of 4-food/7-hammer routes to Cuneiform in the nearish future, and I'm probably going to start transitioning away from the domestic routes once I get to the next civic swap.

[ljubljana]

Turn 151 - Phoenicia



Took my shot at Angiers, but it wasn't enough  Something will take a lot of damage this turn, but at least we can get the walls after that. I left the caravel in place (since it didn't take damage) to protect my precious frigate.

I'm moving my attack group towards DtH in what I hope is a noncommittal-looking posture to MPF. He could seriously mess me up if he moved all his ships into blocking position, but it looks like he's going for Fort Krasia so I'm hoping to encourage him to keep doing so. Next turn I will occupy enough tiles next to the city that he won't be able to block me, if I am able.



I threw everything at RtK and got the walls more than halfway down. I will probably lose a frigate to the city fire + the TAD frigate, but just this turn, thankfully. I thought about engaging the Kaiser Crusade frigates (at 67 defensive strength!), but decided against it - they look like a 4-shot with LoB frigates, maybe a 3-shot with high rolls, and I didn't have enough available this turn. Next turn should be different, though... I also am sending a few caravels around the north to try to pick off Kaiser's caravel - not sure if I'll keep doing so, it depends on if I think I will need them against the frigates in the south.

I also saw that you sent me 8 niter this turn instead of 6 now that both TAD sources are repaired - thank you! I will need to remember to upgrade my quad before accepting your niter next turn, though, otherwise it will push me over 20 and I will have a problem...

oh, and Fort Lakton is at -8 loyalty per turn again now that you have TAD's capital. Kaiser could run policies to slow that, but maybe not while sticking to Bastions + Press Gangs + Wars of Religion. I'd love to get him to drop one of those, if possible...

edit: I also had to renew my spy mission in Doing the Honours this turn, which will take 6t to complete (in Machiavellianism). Do you know what happens if a foreign city with a domestic spy in it is captured/razed? If this kills the spy (hopefully unlikely, but with civ6, anything is possible), I may need to delay taking the city for a few turns until they can get out safely.

[Woden]

Turn 151-Vikings
I pillage a pasture and finish...
   

I swap out the harbor doubling card for Serfdom because I want some builders around when Industrialism finishes. I figure with the available mines and campus at Angiers, it should be less than 10 turns away. Here is my current government...
   

I pillage a quarry into Civil Engineering. The commercial hub at Frigg should bring me to 7 districts (harbor, holy site, encampment, campus, industrial zone, government plaza, commercial hub) for the boost. 

I took out the walls at Angiers. Kaiser went for your frigate instead of my units. With the walls down, my plan is to pillage everything I can before finally taking it. It has at least 1 mine, a full campus, and a holy site somewhere. I can't see the holy site but it is listed on the trading screen. For the governor title, I take Victor's added city attack and free promotion. My current plan is to buy a few more berserkers, make a few corps, and then attack Kasier's capital. I have 2 berserkers so far and need 2 more. I figure I can attach his capital in 3 or 4 turns, once I have the faith to buy the units. 

Here is the front...
   

We need to take out TAD as quick as possible. Then I can get his cities out of occupation and start cranking out boats. I did repair the niter at Open Government and now make 10 per turn. Let me know if you want me to restrict what I send you. I also had the option to ask to renew our alliance. I think that option is new and I have never used it before so let me know if you get an offer. If not, me sending you my niter might interfere with it and ask me to renew it.

Edit: I suggest you farm Angiers for experience on your frigate, see if you can get it to a 3rd promotion. And remember you can heal in my territory if you have a ship that needs healing. It won't be the 1 turn heals you get in your empire but you won't have to sail around Japan/England to heal.

[ljubljana]

Turn 152 - Phoenicia

Open the save to...



...a great merchant! Wow, roland has been making 10 GMP per turn for so long, I had no idea I was anywhere near this. I got a great draw too, probably the best Medieval merchant. Well, you know what they say about being lucky and being good... Anyways, the upshot is that I also got Embrasure this turn . I stuck Victor in Abjad, which at 23.6 hammers/turn can 2-turn Line of Battle frigates and will also be on the front lines in a war against williams to make use of the double shot and defense boost.

As for taking out TAD quickly, we are in luck...



Marco threw everything into blocking me, but was juuust barely too slow, and I got the four tiles I need - not quite the ideal four tiles, but I can shuffle the GA around each turn to make sure each frigate is boosted on attack, if not on defense. I held back my wounded frigate because it is 9 XP from a third promotion and I don't want it to get killed. The walls are at 61 health so they may fall next turn if I attack with all four, or I can play it safe and take two more turns to do it while maintaining control of the tiles I need with a caravel screen. The redlined caravel is bait for TAD's city center, which will hopefully kill it this turn and leave my precious promoted frigates alone - if TAD hits a frigate instead, I will most likely lose one taking the city.

At Angiers, I pillaged a fishing boat to heal off the damage from Kaiser's capital and took another potshot with my frigate. I don't think I will stay much longer, though, as once I can no longer block his caravel, my frigate will be in danger. I will probably retreat to your cities to heal next turn, as you mentioned. Similarly, one or maybe both of the wounded caravels in the west will also go heal at your harbors next turn, assuming they survive.

That means we have a problem, though - with no frigates around to fire on the capital, it might start working on Medieval Walls again, maybe as soon as this turn, since I think the last shot I took at it was on t148. You may need to poke it with a berserker once or twice before you are really ready in order to prevent this - 200 HP of ram-resistant walls would be a nightmare to chew through. I can also sacrifice my frigate to do this if you think that's needed.



In the north, I lost a frigate on the interturn but killed one of Kaiser's Crusade frigates in response. RtK's walls are gone and it is in the red on health - I should be able to leave a tile next to the city free for you to take it on your t153, unless you want to do some pillaging first. I could probably even leave both tiles next to the city open so you can both pillage and take in the same turn, which, yeah, is probably the best thing to do now that I think about it.

After that, I will of course smash Big Brother with everything I have - with that many tiles to hit it from, it should go down very quickly. I also sailed my northern group of caravels forward a bit, but in retrospect that was probably a mistake...Kaiser still has 300 or so milpower that I can't account for, and if it is in the fog to the NW these ships could be in trouble. I think I will pull back next turn if they are still alive, I don't think there's much chance of me gaining enough from this flanking move for it to be worth the risk.

Finally, one more thing:



Looks like my NW-hunting sword in the north might have found something . This is probably the last NW on the map, and it is indeed in a roughly analogous location on the roland/sub continent to where our wonder is on ours. It will be worth a cool 4 ES next turn under my dark age dedication, which would be a nice boost towards a still improbable-looking Heroic Age. I am still wondering whether I should be the one to eliminate TAD at Doing the Honors when the time comes (probably in the next 6-8 turns) to make that more likely - I am still doubtful that it is possible for us to both make it to an HA given our need for near-constant ship production for the rest of the age.

edit: Unfortunately, I played before I saw your post - I don't think I got an offer about renewing the alliance. If it lapses next turn and a bunch of my ships die as a result, that will be a real mess... If that happens, you should hold off on sending me niter for a turn to send the renewal instead so I can fix it in time to boost the city shots - whoops, sorry about that.

Future me: please reread this post before you play, and also upgrade your daily quad before you click on any Woden deals . I did remember this turn, but one of these days I am afraid I will forget and waste a ton of hammers and niter...

edit2: uh oh, I'm worried I made a mistake at DtH by leaving my GA frigate right next to the city like that. If TAD produces a caravel between turns and kills it, my GA will teleport all the way back to Phoenicia... That might not be bad for our odds vs. Russia, but coupled with the new caravel it might mean I blew our chance to take DtH. As long as that one thing doesn't happen though I think we should be okay...and if it does happen, I blame playing my turn at midnight after 6 days away 

[ljubljana]

I think it was roland who passed on her, maybe because they already have all the good Victor titles and nobody else will really help given their current military situation. If so, she may be a gift designed to do whatever roland can to hurt Russia by giving their foe a few more promoted ships, which I of course am glad to accept Not sure what I will do with the Nationalism title now, but I'm sure I'll think of something - maybe just Liang 1 to boost the handful of builders I will eventually want to get in Demotic.

[Woden]

Don't forget to send me a renewal request!

[ljubljana]

Turn 153 - Phoenicia

Sent the renewal request...in fact, I sent it 3 times just to make sure . Let me know if you don't get it, of course.



RtK is redlined (8 health left) and I killed a Kaiser frigate and a TAD caravel + quad, which was actually only possible thanks to my flanking caravels. But there are still two Kaiser caravels here that are perilously close to becoming crusade caravels...those shouldn't one-shot my frigates (74 strength vs 47 for the weaker one after flanking if our alliance lapsed), but they will definitely hurt. I hit both of them once in the hopes of wounding them without knocking them into promotion range - if I did that correctly (I think I did, since both appeared to have fought exactly one battle prior to this turn), we should be able to clean them up next turn, which I'm prioritizing over hitting the city walls for now since they will do SO much damage if left alone.

I lost two ships last turn, and will probably lose two or even three more this turn, but hopefully I will stop the bleeding after that... My tactics have been beyond inelegant here (I had to leave frigates exposed for no reason because my caravels were misplaced ), but luckily our numerical edge is enough that it barely matters. Still, I hate feeling this sloppy, and probably should rush through the turns a little less and keep my focus on such fundamental Civ principles as "keep your caravels in front lol"... I did get three trade routes though, and managed to have all of my ships in the region actually attack or pillage something this turn, which is okay I guess. I also caught lucky breaks on damage rolls up here too, with two redlined frigates barely living, or the turn would have been even worse.

We could be in for some sheningans at RtK next turn - williams will probably block one tile next to the city, and then TAD will move the frigate out to block the other. That will only delay us one turn since I can just kill the frigate, but it would be a pain in the butt so it will probably happen . I did leave you one more tile open since I didn't need too many frigate shots on the city this turn, so you should at least be able to either get the pillage or take the city. Watch out if williams moves an embarked mercenary to the tile currently occupied by the galley next turn, though - if he does, that will let him block both tiles at RtK in two turns. If that happens, I think you will need to move up a zerk to take the city...



Kaser's capital made a caravel and killed my frigate, which is very sad since I could have saved it last turn if I hadn't stupidly taken a potshot at the city. Worse, I couldn't kill it with an attack from my own caravel, so I had to let it go, as it will be promoted if I attack again and there is no way to both keep my caravel out of range of the capital and block off its escape. So I didn't attack, as it would have just been free XP for Kaiser when he retreats the caravel to the city to heal. I guess we don't really need control of the seas here anymore, since the main attack on the capital will be land-based, so maybe we should shift into containment mode on that caravel pair and avoid engaging it so close to the city that we will lose more ships.

DtH is going okay, though. TAD took my bait caravel, so I got in three more shots against the city center - the walls will fall next turn, after which I can use my wounded frigate too. If TAD makes a caravel there next turn he could still make us sweat a little, but I thiiiink it's too late to stop us from razing the city now, especially since the GA situation I freaked out about last turn should be fixed now.

I do like your plan at Angiers, but I also think you should probably hit the city once every 3 turns at least just to make sure the walls come back. Not sure if you were going to anyways, but just thought I'd make sure. The capital also has me worried since it's now probably working on Medieval Walls again after that caravel build, but hopefully you can get your zerks there quickly enough to shut that down.

[ljubljana]

hahaha that's amazing! I also love how ergonomic it is, lest you get carpal tunnel from typing out too many Linear A novellas