Werewolf 12: Game Thread

[Tasunke]

Yes, it does make sense that Mardoc could be the White Wolf Tracker.

On the other hand, he could be the village seer.

[Injera]

Yeah, I confused the watcher & tracker as well. I got too excited when I saw the role restriction.

As a PSA, since I was pulling these up for my own use, here are the links to pindicator's summaries:

Day 1 Voting

Day 2 Voting

[pindicator]

Hey, we got another one!

Home from work and working on day 3's votes now.

[Ichabod]

Well ok. Now I think that there is one Watcher (me) and two Trackers. (well, now just the one tracker).

I can see how the argument could be made that one pack got Watcher and one pack got Tracker, including the fact of similar limitations, which means that I get why Lewwyn posted what he did.

Honestly I'm thinking now that all investigating roles Noblehelium gave out have a similar limitation (except for the weak Voyeur role of course).

I am really starting to wonder what the total meta-balance of the game is, but I guess
part of any 3 alignment game is an attempt to balance on the host's part and an attempt to guess the balance on the village's part.

I for one am wondering what the wolf kill order is. If it is indeed a pure 1:1 alternating scheme, then I don't understand the nature of my power's limitation, given that I am village.

On the other hand, the alternating scheme might be 1:2:2:1:1:2:2: etcetera, or even just a 50% chance flip of the coin to see who goes each night.

Assuming a pure schema (1:2:1:2:1:2) it makes me wonder if there is a second village watcher, or maybe the village seer is supposed to make up the difference?

I guess in the end, I don't really care whether I'm just watching one pack or not, as wolves are still wolves, but it does make one question the metagame of the setup.

This is a very good post, Tasunke. You bring forward a very nice point about the possibility of a different kill order to balance the packs. By the way, you should have post this earlier, before the deadline. It'd help your case.

But seeing that Commodores role has the same limitation... It feels strange... I can't understand why a wolf role would have this limitation. If the kill order is 1a-1b-1a-1b, it wouldn't be much of a limitation in the "catch the other WW pack" department. If the kill order is 1a-2b-2a-2b, than it could fit, one day you can catch an enemy wolf, the other you can only catch villager power roles (the ones where you'd have the power, but would be night killing).

On the other hand, if you are a villager watcher with this limitation, that'd only be balanced in a 1-2-2-2 setup. I guess killing you would reveal the kill order to us.

---

In a different subject:

Why didn't Commodore claim tracker? He could have claimed it. A villager tracker is a possible role. Maybe he was afraid of being night-killed by the White faction, since they'd know he was a wolf after the claim... But still...

If the wolves are so afraid of the other pack killing them, there's the possible question of why Tasunke claimed his power so promptly. My answer to that is: he claimed it before the packs knew they had similar roles, since the Black pack only realized this after the MNG lynch and the White pack only realized this after "the Grey announcement".

[Tasunke]

Going by Pindicator's own analysis ... Day 1's vote pattern seems to show that I am not in Mr. Nice Guy's pack: which means that I am not a White Wolf.

Now we have a Tracker wolf on team black. I highly doubt there would be both a tracker and a watcher on the same wolf pack. If anything it would be "White gets one, Black gets the other"

And since I am not likely to be either on team black or team white, that leaves the village.

I suppose that this does not automatically clear me, but still I hope that others notice this before they automatically assume that I "must be a wolf" or some such.

Anyways, I really think that the evidence points me more towards being a villager than being a wolf.

[Tasunke]

But seeing that Commodores role has the same limitation... It feels strange...

I agree, which makes me question the set up as a whole.

Hopefully once the game is over it will all make sense.

[Injera]

Hmm, I'm not sure how much speculation on the kill order will end up mattering as it relates to the power limits. I just think all or most of the roles have pretty severe limits.

The way I'm feeling it is that NH wanted to give everyone a power so that they would have a little something extra think about, but minimize the risk of the village having a cakewalk because they got lucky with a bunch of village-confirming power role hits like in recent games.

[Tasunke]

Come to think of it though?

I don't really think Commodore's power is weak even in a 1:2:2:1:1:2:2: set up.

Why? Because he can look for investegator roles in the meantime. (and maybe even find a vigilante)

This is an important point that I think is easy to overlook since we already lost one vig, and had 2 investigators claim (1 being dead from a lynch).

But I think Commodore's power may have been mainly used for searching out investegator/vig roles.

If he found a vig role, that would have been like a gold mine for the wolves (assuming it was a multi shot vig, and assuming that they had survived).

[Tasunke]

The way I'm feeling it is that NH wanted to give everyone a power so that they would have a little something extra think about, but minimize the risk of the village having a cakewalk because they got lucky with a bunch of village-confirming power role hits like in recent games.

I suppose this is possible.

I am not sure if I agree with the design principle though, as I would rather have balance through plentiful power rather than plentiful nerfs, but it does make sense, and is a rather common tactic.

I think I can see why he didn't give limited shots to investigators though. I mean with 21 people and only 1 kill a night, we are looking at a VERY long game potentially. So long in fact, that investigators would even have reason to skip a night in order to look up another wolf pack (assuming 1:2:1:2).

[Tasunke]

As such, the "not twice in a row" seems a reasonable enough limitation for this set up, I suppose. But then again, especially for a village watcher, a lot of things are going to come down to trying to guess the wolf kill order (if I want to try and find wolves from both packs).