WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Twinkletoes89]

It appears that since zak wasn't around long enough to do it, uberfish is taking up his role of seeing whatever I do as suspicious.

I'm sorry but I don't trust this Ichabod push and I'm having less and less trust in Novice.

I see the 'for zak' part of the Ichabod argument and it seems like a very clever thing to do. Its easy to go "zak was innocent and he helped us get thestick, so let's follow whatever he says". Zak is a good villager but he guesses as much as the rest of us do and he is just as likely to be wrong.

Too much of it seems like buck passing to 'heavy hitting voters' as Jkaen called it but I will be absolutely stunned if none of them are wolves.

Catwalk, you are so totally misguided on novice that its almost like you are tying concrete shoes on if the good ship mafia has Novice as captain.

I will respond to uberfish's reply in my next post

[Arromir]

I think I'll vote [COLOR="Cyan"]Lewwyn [/COLOR] for mayor, and leave my vote Sareln unchanged.

Hopefully the town doesn't things up too much the last few hours, and we manage to bag another mafioso.

[Ichabod]

@Qgqqqqq

Honestly? You tell us that you expect Lewwyn to die tonight (what means you suspect the same as me, that he is bloody right with Ichabod) and therefore you vote... for Selrahc? Not to say Selrahc is a bad target, but if you suspect Lewwyn is right with Ichabod, you should vote for him, not state "there are enough others on him", thats bullshit.

That said, I think Lewwyn makes a very good case. Additionally I didn't like all those posts by Ichabod. I unfortunately can't articulate myself as well as Lewwyn, but those posts reminded me strongly on the one time Ichabod was a wolf. Much text but at the end you have not gained any insight whatsoever. It is just noise, disguised as contribution.

Ichabod

I was away almost all day 1. Day 2 I spent the most time defending, which is villager play when you know you are a villager and I still made more contributions than a lot of players here.

This is interesting. There were 5 people that made suspicious last minute switches to me (if you include Pindicator, whose vote was not to me but was meaningless, so COULD have resulted in my lynch). you mention two but not the most suspicious ones.
In fact I would say the voting pattern makes them suspicious in this order -
1. uberfish 2. sareln 3. merovich 4. catwalk 5. Pindicator.

Pindicator's neutral vote when he could have just piled on me makes him less suspicious. Pindicator had also previously voted for me so it still would have been near the end of the list even if he had hopped back on me. I put catwalk's near the end also because he had previously voted for me as well, unlike the first 3 that came out of nowhere.



Yes, this is Pindicator's MO, and while I was frustrated he wouldn't just vote for thestick, especially fearing a last minute wolf mislynch of me, its really not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch today. I think a day 2 lynch of Pindicator would be absolutely horrible, there are at least 6 better candidates (sareln, uberfish, ichabod, catwalk, selrahc, merovich - just thinking off hand) - the first 4 are screaming scum, at least.



You know, this is not as "tinfoil hat" as it appears at first glance. In any case, I completely agree with the second paragraph.

I'm not really happy with novice's play today at all. This whole post restriction is too coincidental anyway and doesn't really fit in with a mafia themed game, imo. It may very well be that village novice is faking it to avoid being night killed, but I still don't like it...

Lewwyn


as for lynch, I would actually be quite fine with Ichabod or uberfish lynching today, and I am very happy that we forced Sareln to start contributing -
but as long as the alternate candidate is a like Pindicator I'm going to have to stay on Sareln

What a wolf post...

Screaming Wolf?? I'm screaming wolf?? Really? Why!??! Because Zak said so??

Maybe we had 2 wolves on the spot on day 1, because this is just really bad. Screaming wolf... You don't even know what I'm being accused of, I bet... Blah, blah, blah, Zak's case, blah, blah, blah, screaming wolf.

Are we really going to let people sail thorugh the game so obviously like this?

Bah...

[pindicator]

Rereading the actual lynch vote statements of Pindicator and Merovech, I realize now that I got the reasoning confused. Merovech moved to "pressure" Bigger from theStick with 10 minutes left on the clock. Pindicator jumped on Merovech stating "it was probably too late".

----

Here's what I don't get though. Pindicator implies that he thinks Merovech is a wolf for switching from theStick to Bigger as he votes for him. However, that only works if theStick is also a wolf, else why would Merovech have any reason to change his vote so late in the day but in an attempt to save theStick. Why not (as Merovech) stay put and possibly nab a village watcher at low risk (Merovich made his theStick vote just before the 24 hour mark of the day). Therefore Merovech shouldn't be a wolf unless theStick is also a wolf. That means that the correct play for a villager Pindicator is to stay put and ensure theStick is lynched, and then followup into Merovech on the next day. But instead Pindicator launches a last minute attempt at Merovech effectively bringing the lynch within nervous villager range - which I'm inclined to think Merovech was at this point.

----

After all that, I vote Pindicator.

Its simpler than that. Thestick claimed and i believed the claim enough that i got cold feet. Who to vote for then? Not Bigger b/c i didnt agree with the voting on him. You can't not vote, and i had no suspetcs i felt good about yet only 15min before the day ended. Did not like merovech's pressure comment so i went with that.

Catching up through the day, when i can sneak it at the office

[Twinkletoes89]

Back from lunch, do I really have to spell everything out for you people?



A run on TT? really? Pindicator and myself were on him at the start of the day and he picks up one vote from Molach, calls it a run and implies with no evidence whatsoever that it's manipulated by wolves. LOL



so thestick was bussed. Ok

so WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CONSPICUOUSLY TRY TO SAVE THESTICK IF I WAS SCUM AND MY PARTNERS WERE BUSSING HIM



and switching to me isn't moving to another popular lynch target apparently



Stretching to draw a completely spurious connection to Sareln's wagon when I was pushing him since the beginning of the day

In short TT's justification for voting me is absolutely illogical and terrible


AND NOW

look at TT's stances today, his philosophy has always been "question the obvious" and to be suspicious of popular wagons, he doesn't trust Mattimeo's claim either

go reread what he does on pp25-29 where he happily jumps on the flashwagon on Mattimeo, snap unvotes when Matt claims without questioning it, and uncritically hops back on thestick when momentum moves there

why's there such a difference?

Because TT is scum and was caught by surprise on the Mattimeo moves yesterday

If he was town, he'd have been his usual paranoid self, looked at 5 votes in 5 posts on Matt or however many it was suspiciously, and at least questioned whether it was a scum move before piling on the wagon. Same with accepting Matt's claim and flipping back to thestick. I can't remember town TT ever being content to crowdsurf in this fashion, much less 3 times in a row. The reason he didn't question any of these moves is because he already knew what was going on. Because he is scum. He saw an opportunity to try and save thestick by pushing an alternate wagon, and when Matt claimed, he KNEW the claim was true and got off as fast as possible. That's why critical thought never entered his mind.

Uberfish, it seems that you like misreading my words or twisting them.

Lime bit -> I did not state there was a full on run on me like you suggest. Read again and you will say that I mentioned that there was 'a bit of a move on me' yet acknowldeged that it was too early to tell if it was actually going anywhere.

I did not imply that the run on me was manipulated by wolves either. I mentioned the runs on Sareln, Ichabod and Pindicator as well as the mini-run on me and suggested that at least one of them was being manipulated by wolves. There was no specifying of which one. So again, you have twisted my words.

Orange Bit -> I doubt that even if thestick was bussed, all wolves would act the same. If they did it would be easy to find them. Some wolves will have tried to look as if they were saving him and some not if they have any sense, so that if one thread gets unravelled and a few mafia are caught, some other mafia will not get caught by it and may even gain cover by it. You're effectively saying "a mafia would never do that", which is a flimsy excuse at best.

Blue bit -> Again you are twisting my words. I was not tying your actions to the Sareln lynch or saying your vote on me was as a result of that.

What I actually said was that since the sareln lead had collapsed, there was no candidate who was far ahead and plenty of noise about a few candidates. This amount of candidates with relatively similar vote counts means that it is easy for the mafia to start manipulating momentum on one of those people who is innocent to save any who aren't.

On Mattimeo

I voted for Mattimeo because out of all the cases at the time, his was the only one that even half convinced me and I was worried about just having one single candidate in for lynching, as there hadn't been much movement of alternative targets which normally suggests a mislynch this early imo.

When he claimed, my gut feel was that it was genuine and so I am not too proud to accept that I am wrong and thestick's claim made me sure he was lying so I moved on to him. Perfectly reasonable actions imo.

As regarding my second thoughts on him, I saw thestick's role name have a mafia-style flavour and I believe that that would be consistent for all roles, of which I don't think cloaker fits. Hence I am now of the belief that he is holding back on something and could well be lying.

And the reason there is a difference that you make such a big deal out of... The presence of new information in thestick's role name. Which (as you well know) happened after he was lynched and my switch off Mattimeo. Oh wow! Major conspiracy here...

Any better for you?

[uberfish]

Well looks like there haven't been too many new developments since my last post. Sareln has shown up with a single post, but nothing to minimize my suspicions of him. It will be interesting to see if and where the votes swing, as currently he's in the lead.

(a whole bunch of posts later including Sareln posting a bunch and votes moving off him)

I think I'll vote [COLOR="Cyan"]Lewwyn [/COLOR] for mayor, and leave my vote Sareln unchanged.

Hopefully the town doesn't things up too much the last few hours, and we manage to bag another mafioso.

No comment on where the votes swung to? Or ANYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME for that matter? If you're confident Sareln is scum and that town is screwing up by deserting his wagon, then WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HELP CONVINCE PEOPLE OF SARELN'S GUILT?

It's reading like you don't care about anything except making sure that YOU personally aren't lynched, and that is scummy as hell.

[Twinkletoes89]

Oh and one thing I missed.

Uberfish - if having 3 votes on me doesn't count as even movement towards lynching me, then you can't call yourself "another popular lynch target" because if I remember correctly, you had even less votes on you.

[uberfish]

Oh and one thing I missed.

Uberfish - if having 3 votes on me doesn't count as even movement towards lynching me, then you can't call yourself "another popular lynch target" because if I remember correctly, you had even less votes on you.

Yes I can, because people were mentioning my name in the same sentence as Sareln as a suspect all day. I'll get to the big post a bit.

[Arromir]

No comment on where the votes swung to? Or ANYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME for that matter? If you're confident Sareln is scum and that town is screwing up by deserting his wagon, then WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HELP CONVINCE PEOPLE OF SARELN'S GUILT?

It's reading like you don't care about anything except making sure that YOU personally aren't lynched, and that is scummy as hell.

Unfortunately it mostly comes down to RL complications. Last night I was supposed to get home early enough to have time to post - turns out some guy got shot on a nearby street, and for some reason the cops considered closing down the streets for that more important than letting me through to get to my game of WW. Perhaps you think I'm just making up an absurd lie, but sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction.

Considering the fact that I'm so limited right now, I try to not add more noise than necessary, especially if I won't be around to respond to it properly. So as I said, here's to hoping we swing another scum, and hopefully in the subsequent days I'll have less RL BS spring up on me.

[Catwalk]

novice, was that list prioritized? Why 12 red and 14 cyan? Have you changed your position on Sareln?