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Hi,
I've finally completed the next game of my "Kids, don't try this at home!" series of Civ 4 games.  This time, it was a no science game where I was not allowed to discover techs on my own, not via research, specialists, great people, or the oracle - with the small exception of the initial worker techs. Who fears the WFYABTA limit again? 
You can find it here if you're interested.
-Kylearan
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
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Interesting game. Like your no mil, relations wound up being critical.
Also of interest is that despite the fact you were throwing out 100s of thousands of gold, the tech pace among the AIs seemed no quicker. Shows how much the player's research and trading is worth.
Very fun read and very interesting variant.
Gotag
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Really interesting. and yes getting tech from the AI to stop war IS quite hard even after removing most of its cities and is not a valid path for this kind of game.
Jabah
Just a typo on your first page on the game setting, you were not Victoria (even if you had lots of english cities by the end  )
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Great game, Kylearan !  But to be honest - I found your non-violent Gandhi Diplo victory even more impressive (hell, only the starting warrior as only military unit throghout the game ! I'm looking forward to you trying the same with Monty, Alex and Toku on board  ) ...! Both were fun to read and very well executed !
Regards,
LT
Come not to me again: but say to Athens,
Timon hath made his everlasting mansion
Upon the beached verge of the salt flood;
Who once a day with his embossed froth
The turbulent surge shall cover: thither come,
And let my grave-stone be your oracle.
Lips, let sour words go by and language end:
What is amiss plague and infection mend!
Graves only be men's works and death their gain!
Sun, hide thy beams! Timon hath done his reign.
(Act V, Scene I)
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One thing you didn't mention was your conclusions on the WFYABTA issue now that you completel ehte whole game. I know you made some comments within the report, but have your feelings changed much regarding it now that you were able to buy/trade your way to victory?
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Great variant. Once again I am amazed at how you were able to pull this one off. Great Game !
It is interesting how Saladin didn't vote for you, even though you had a greater relationship with him than Mansa who did vote for you. I have come across this many times and would like to know what's up with it. Doesn't make much sense to me.
I also find it strange that even after you hit the WFYABTA with all the other Civs except Musa, Saladin suddenly decided to start trading with you again. If relations didn't increase at all then the only cause for this that I can think is that you had more gold saved up and he wanted it? 
One last thing, does that graphical glitch only happen with Julius's eyes? 8)
C4P Ladder Player
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Hi,
Jabah Wrote:you were not Victoria Whoops - fixed. Thanks, Jabah! Somehow, I always mix up Victoria and Catherine...
-Kylearan
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
Posts: 1,922
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Joined: Mar 2004
Hi,
pholkhero Wrote:One thing you didn't mention was your conclusions on the WFYABTA issue now that you completel ehte whole game. I know you made some comments within the report, but have your feelings changed much regarding it now that you were able to buy/trade your way to victory? I still see it with mixed feelings. It's needed, so I accept it and to some degree like it. But I do not love it because 70% of the time I run into it, it makes not much sense (either from a roleplaying perspective or from an AI optimization perspective in the sense that it hurts the AI more than the human). And while I think it's necessary to help the AI against a tech-whoring human, I also have to confess that tech-whoring in Civ 3 was fun, even though I fully knew how it broke the game in some ways.
I hope that I can have a look at the exact algorithm once the SDK is out, to fully understand how it works. Maybe I like it more if I can predict it better and don't get surprised by it so often.
-Kylearan
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
Posts: 1,922
Threads: 68
Joined: Mar 2004
Hi,
Knupp715 Wrote:It is interesting how Saladin didn't vote for you, even though you had a greater relationship with him than Mansa who did vote for you. I have come across this many times and would like to know what's up with it. Doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe the different personalities weigh the different types of relationship modifiers differently? Maybe for one personality, the religion modifier is more important while for another personality, the trade relations affects the voting outcome stronger? Or maybe I'm just assuming too much sophistication here?
Quote:I also find it strange that even after you hit the WFYABTA with all the other Civs except Musa, Saladin suddenly decided to start trading with you again.
Sometimes I think the relationship modifiers (which play a role for the WFYABTA limit) are handled on a finer scale internally than they get displayed. For example, there has to be a counter that keeps track of how long you supply an AI with resources before that respective bonus appears; another example would be that religious relationships change only gradually over time. Maybe these timers are taken into account internally as well.
Quote:One last thing, does that graphical glitch only happen with Julius's eyes?
No, I had it with others as well, and by now know what causes it. I only get this if I have switched on the lower texture details in the options menu (which I recently did, to speed up gameplay).
-Kylearan
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
March 8th, 2006, 10:58
(This post was last modified: March 8th, 2006, 11:36 by Atlas.)
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Great Game !! Very impressive. As for the Great people golden age thing, I have had the same problem. I think what I did was run the ones I did not want to use around until their movement points were exhausted and then used the the ones that still had movement points (I can't remember for sure if this worked though, I think it did).
Despite the fact that you won I think you really proved that Civ 3 no research style is dead since it was clear that your variant was not optimal. Kylearan I was waiting the whole time I was reading for a comparison b/w the number of turns it would have taken you to research a tech v. the number of turns to buy, do you think you could open up a save and give a few examples? and some examples depending on how many AI know that tech ie the deflation for purchasing it?
Knupp715 Wrote:I also find it strange that even after you hit the WFYABTA with all the other Civs except Musa, Saladin suddenly decided to start trading with you again. If relations didn't increase at all then the only cause for this that I can think is that you had more gold saved up and he wanted it?
It could be something as simple as Saladin finished research on a new tech, but I don't know, it seems like the algorithm for WFYABTA only accounts for # of tech trades and not the difference b/w the number of techs you know.
disclaimer:Of course I am not a programmer, actually I am really a luddite (*ducks* thrown objects). And don't "know" anything
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