March 2 Update

[Lurker Wyrm]

Has it ever occured to you that your instant dismissive approach to anyone's ideas and subsequent bull-headed approach to telling everyone what's what (according to you) is a large part of the problem?

There are a lot of ideas out there that just don't need testing because they don't work. I don't need to try a W/Me that walks around with a Vampiric hammer and uses Signet of Midnight because I know it's a bad idea.

RB is generally a group of 'explorers' often playing host to players who tend to poke in the corners of a game as opposed to just following the mainstream ideas.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe another part of the problem is that you refuse to try anything other than those "corners" that you've found? As far as you've let me know, you've been running the exact same builds since at least October of last year when you made the "They don't understand my chars" topic. Probably even longer than that because, apparently, you were getting a lot of grief because of them. I built Thog for two purposes originally, to unlock W/E skills, and to make a Hammer + Aftershock combo char. Since then, I've had him be just about everything the two classes could combine to be, from an Elemental Attunement caster to the ever popular Gale Axer. Most people change secondaries on a regular basis because they want to try out new combinations. Not you. You've got your builds and that's that.

You do your best to shoot down everyone's ideas and then get grumpy when we insist that we've had good results and now you tell us you feel like you're being attacked?

And people either ignore it or listen. I hear build suggestions all the time that I do the same thing to. So what? I wasn't referring specifically to you when I said I felt I was being attacked. You don't attack people, you just sarcastically let them know you don't care about a single thing they say.

From where I sit most of the attacking has been yours.

On the forums, yeah. In game, not even close.

"Completely redundant arguments". So you've labled our reasoning and experimentation as "completely redundant" yet cry foul when your 'advice' looks completely redundant to us?

Your defense of Backfire was "Mages in random arenas get mad at me when I cast it on them, so it has to be good." That was it. Not to mention the fact that you're using it on a ranger primary that gets neither the energy options of a caster or the benefit of Fast Casting / Domination runes of the mesmer for extra potency. Swiss and I pointed out at least half a dozen situations where it wasn't a skill of choice and all you ever did was counter with the randoms argument. Swiss even took the time to share suggestions for replacement hexes, detailing when/how they were useful. Your reaction to his suggestions? Oh yeah, Backfire works in randoms so it must work everywhere, or you've got bad ping (which would've been fine for just you, but you overgeneralized it and said interrupt mesmers in general aren't worth anything because you can't use them).

And the pot calls the kettle black.

Right back at you.

From our point of view, "It's pointless getting into a discussion with you because you're dismissive of anything that doesn't agree with your own opinion."

That's a load of crap. I've taken ideas from other people and incorporated them and all that fun stuff. I just want more reasoning than "it hurts people when they cast spells so it's awesome!" If anyone asks, I'll tell people what skills I'm bringing along, and if I need to change something or even completely respec, I'll do it. You don't. If you had actually bothered to go through an entire build plan instead of just saying you had Backfire I might have paid more attention to it. But you have never, and I mean never, listed all the skills in your build. This is the closest we've ever come to knowing what's on your skillbar. You're so completely unwilling to try anything anyone else suggests that it wouldn't matter how anyone suggests anything to you, you'll just ignore it.

If you ever actually bothered posting a build, or even simply telling people what your main skill combination was going to be, we could at least see if there were skills we had that could work with them to make them more effective (for example, if you're bringing Backfire and don't have any more room for skills, someone else could bring cover hexes or Shame so that it can't be removed easily). I don't care if you want to experiment with something, even if it's doomed to be a failure (which I've done plenty of times), I'm just asking that you actually be a part of the team and let us know. If you want to make a build that uses Arcane Echo with Echo to continuously lay Ethereal Burden on someone, go ahead. Just tell us what you're doing instead of saying "I'm using Ethereal Burden." Chances are you'll get more than one person saying it's a bad idea, but if you say you're experimenting, I doubt anyone would have an actual problem with it.

Hey good luck with that business of "forming arguments". The "I'm an English major," part was really quite inventive, in a way that never works for anyone else in the known universe,

You completely missed the point of that one. I wasn't trying to sound arrogant or whatever when I said I was an English major. I was just trying to explain why it is that I've been known (apparently infamously) to throw out spelling corrections on occassion (something I've only done a handful of times to begin with). I wasn't saying that to try and belittle anyone in any sort of way; it's only intention was to give perspective.

but in your capable hands manages to persuade even the hardest of hearts that you're never arrogant or condescending. Well done!

I didn't say or mean it that way. The fact that you're trying to twist it around says more about you than anything else. I'm fully aware of what my character flaws are. You're more condescending than I am, though. You're the one who never bothers explaining anything to anyone, you just assume we all know exactly what you're thinking/doing. And when we don't, you just throw out sarcasm and basically say "well, too bad, I don't need to explain myself to anyone."

[Swiss Mercenary]

I think I can see where this is escalating.

LW, I've been in similar situation as you are now, and frankly, it wasn't a good one. Let me recall... Ah, yes. Anger at the mere mention of the name of my antagonist, I mean, antagonists. Firm belief that since I was wronged, I should wrong back. Drawn out over the span, of what, a year? A year and a half?

It's just not worth it. My case started out as a matter of brushed egos. Grown thanks to... Questionable ethics employed by them in competitive matches. They stirred up quite a storm in the community. I have, thankfully, had the chance to set things right with the persons in question. I really do feel lucky in the respect that I got that chance, that they were willing to take a step forward to come to an understanding. A cease of hostilities, if you will. It's happened before, but didn't hold, because there was not enough sincerity behind our apologies. That last time, they were willing to make peace, no strings attached. And I'll say that doing the same back has lifted a tremendous weight off my shoulders.

It's really for the best when both parties aren't burdened by it.

I've said my piece, and am taking several steps out of this thread. Very, very large steps.

[WarBlade]

There are a lot of ideas out there that just don't need testing because they don't work.

And ideas that I've successfully tried which you try to shoot down anyway.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe another part of the problem is that you refuse to try anything other than those "corners" that you've found? As far as you've let me know, you've been running the exact same builds since at least October of last year when you made the "They don't understand my chars" topic.

Oh, you've missed my recent fun with the no-energy, low energy monk builds I've been playing with lately then?

Probably even longer than that because, apparently, you were getting a lot of grief because of them. I built Thog for two purposes originally, to unlock W/E skills, and to make a Hammer + Aftershock combo char. Since then, I've had him be just about everything the two classes could combine to be, from an Elemental Attunement caster to the ever popular Gale Axer. Most people change secondaries on a regular basis because they want to try out new combinations. Not you. You've got your builds and that's that.

Ah, you missed my lamenting over suitable pets for my normally W/Mo too I see.

And people either ignore it or listen. I hear build suggestions all the time that I do the same thing to. So what? I wasn't referring specifically to you when I said I felt I was being attacked. You don't attack people, you just sarcastically let them know you don't care about a single thing they say.

I try something. It works. You tell me it doesn't. You tell me I should do something else. I tell you that I've tried that already and settled on something that I found works just fine or actually better than what you're practically commanding I should do and... Yeah. Your arguments quickly throw you into the "don't care about his arguments" category.

Your defense of Backfire was "Mages in random arenas get mad at me when I cast it on them, so it has to be good." That was it.

Plus the other 99% that you just skipped for some reason.

Not to mention the fact that you're using it on a ranger primary that gets neither the energy options of a caster or the benefit of Fast Casting / Domination runes of the mesmer for extra potency.

But gets other benefits that I made perfectly clear and which cancel out the deficits rather well I have discovered.

Swiss and I pointed out at least half a dozen situations where it wasn't a skill of choice and all you ever did was counter with the randoms argument.

Not really. I told you about not being noticed, I told you about advatages gained from the ranger side, I also pointed out that any build can hit situations that don't suit it and you criticised or ignored everything I said.

Swiss even took the time to share suggestions for replacement hexes, detailing when/how they were useful.

And I took the time to point that that I had tried most of them already and found many to be lacking for reasons which I also made clear. You don't need to get so snotty about it. I found something that works for me and I'll play it wherever appropriate no matter how silly your tantrum gets.

Your reaction to his suggestions? Oh yeah, Backfire works in randoms so it must work everywhere,

No. That's your re-interpretation of my reaction to his suggestions. There a big difference.

or you've got bad ping (which would've been fine for just you, but you overgeneralized it and said interrupt mesmers in general aren't worth anything because you can't use them).

Hmm, I thought I made it clear that interrupt Mesmers were practically worthless to me?

That's a load of crap. I've taken ideas from other people and incorporated them and all that fun stuff. I just want more reasoning than "it hurts people when they cast spells so it's awesome!" If anyone asks, I'll tell people what skills I'm bringing along, and if I need to change something or even completely respec, I'll do it. You don't.

I don't? Since when? I distinctly recall dropping Barrage in exchange for Martyr for bug queen farming and Defend North Kryta. I brought Ice Prison to Aurora Glade and have hardly ever used it otherwise, but grabbed it for a specific purpose I knew I'd find in that mission. I change if the situation demands. You just don't notice.

If you had actually bothered to go through an entire build plan instead of just saying you had Backfire I might have paid more attention to it. But you have never, and I mean never, listed all the skills in your build.

I have actually.

This is the closest we've ever come to knowing what's on your skillbar. You're so completely unwilling to try anything anyone else suggests that it wouldn't matter how anyone suggests anything to you, you'll just ignore it.

I tried something Drasca suggested for Defend Denravi once. Inspired Enchant I think.

It was a bad plan.

Whatever. Again, you ignore or have somehow missed other people's suggestions that I have followed.

If you ever actually bothered posting a build, or even simply telling people what your main skill combination was going to be, we could at least see if there were skills we had that could work with them to make them more effective (for example, if you're bringing Backfire and don't have any more room for skills, someone else could bring cover hexes or Shame so that it can't be removed easily).

I talk if need be. Quite often I simply watch and spec accordingly. But as we've already established I'll say what I'm bringing and people half the time just don't get it.

PuG to Somewhat Zen: "What's ur elite?"
Somewhat Zen: "Barrage"
PuG: "Huh?"

I don't care if you want to experiment with something, even if it's doomed to be a failure (which I've done plenty of times), I'm just asking that you actually be a part of the team and let us know.

But you're not asking though. When people ask in game, I answer. If you continue the claim that I never talk then you have to concede that you don't ask me.

If you want to make a build that uses Arcane Echo with Echo to continuously lay Ethereal Burden on someone, go ahead. Just tell us what you're doing instead of saying "I'm using Ethereal Burden." Chances are you'll get more than one person saying it's a bad idea, but if you say you're experimenting, I doubt anyone would have an actual problem with it.

Yeah, I tell people things like I'm playing a Mesmer in disguise and then they start losing the plot. Half the time I just have to say, "trust me," or keep things vague until they actually see the character in action. At least with RB people just accept that I'll be doing something useful and let me get on with it.

I didn't say or mean it that way. The fact that you're trying to twist it around says more about you than anything else. I'm fully aware of what my character flaws are. You're more condescending than I am, though.

I generally refer to myself as a facetious smartarse and very pedantic. Condescending is something I usually reserve for my Mum when she introduces her poor computer to yet another PEBKAC fault. But ok, if I have to be condescending for the moment, whatever.

You're the one who never bothers explaining anything to anyone, you just assume we all know exactly what you're thinking/doing. And when we don't, you just throw out sarcasm and basically say "well, too bad, I don't need to explain myself to anyone."

Hey Fox Bat? You reading? Did you get the full range of skill calls I threw out after you asked what I was doing besides bonding some 14 hours ago? Or did I miss something?

Seriously. Ask. I do answer.

[Seijin]

Can't we all just get along????

You guys need to kiss and make up. We should be friends, not rivals.

I've bumped heads a few times with some people, not as bad as this, but enough to get me a little upset, but I just push that crap aside because its fun going out and doing stuff with them.

I love you all...do you all love me?

On a side note...after all these recent updates...Is anyone else having to Download a lot of files constantly when going into a any zone?? Or is it just me? :mad:

[WarBlade]

Can't we all just get along????

You guys need to kiss and make up. We should be friends, not rivals.

I've bumped heads a few times with some people, not as bad as this, but enough to get me a little upset, but I just push that crap aside because its fun going out and doing stuff with them.

I love you all...do you all love me?

On a side note...after all these recent updates...Is anyone else having to Download a lot of files constantly when going into a any zone?? Or is it just me? :mad:

Yes, it's on the official site. They're pre-streaming Factions content in a drip feed situation to reduce the mega downloads expected at the preview weekend.

[KingOfPain]

We love everyone except you.

Oh what the hell, since you changed avatar from that hideous one you had before, we can love you too

KoP

[Drasca]

There are a lot of ideas out there that just don't need testing because they don't work. I don't need to try a W/Me that walks around with a Vampiric hammer and uses Signet of Midnight because I know it's a bad idea.."

Ribbit time. I'm from the a loony bin mind you, so Signet of Midnight + Vamp Hammer just means Glint hunting to me. Also Virulence-Epidemic fodder for my Necromaner teammate. There's usually a way to make crazy builds work, they just won't necessarily work as well as other builds.

I usually complain to Warblade because, if he isn't prodded, he tends to bring solo builds into team games. Booo! Hiss!

throws week old fish flavored popcorn at Warblade

I tried something Drasca suggested for Defend Denravi once. Inspired Enchant I think.

It was a bad plan.

If I own the monopoly on bad ideas/plans, when do I get paid royalties? No clue if that was my plan or not. If so, it was just something to try. If it doesn't work, no big deal.

I also enjoy novelties such as attacking Ring of Fire's beachhead Mursaat, or the Iron Mines Elementalist Mursaat (both can be seperated).

Honestly, this game isn't fun if I don't purposely attempt the oddball 'bad idea'. Heck, I farmed shriveled eyes using a R/Mo beastmaster outside seekers. Fastest way to get shriveled eyes? Heck no. Most interesting and then fun to find oddball builds? Yes indeed. Good for team builds? Definitely not.

On that note, does anyone have a real beastmaster team build? I can't think of one that actually uses pet attacks rather than corpse and body block fodder.

[WarBlade]

I usually complain to Warblade because, if he isn't prodded, he tends to bring solo builds into team games. Booo! Hiss!

throws week old fish flavored popcorn at Warblade

Heeey, we all know how I like lobbing off Heal Party! And there was the Martyr/Antidote Signet combo idea that someone thought was a bad idea for DNK, but actually worked very well. Kronin's Healing Springs are practically useless to himself and Ice Blade's Blurred Vision is a team help that he uses more often than the more solo-inclined Mist Form.

As for popcorn, I have the monopoly on popcorn. I get unrestricted access to the free wastage at work. I brought home a rubbish bag full of the stuff last year as an experiment to see how much popcorn it would take to make me sick, spent about three or four hours shovelling popcorn into my mouth and came to the conclusion that it can't make me sick. It's like air. You swallow it and it just fills up space.

I also enjoy novelties such as attacking Ring of Fire's beachhead Mursaat, or the Iron Mines Elementalist Mursaat (both can be seperated).

Yeah, about that beachhead thing. Can you warn us beforehand please? Both times I've seen you do that, you go one way, several people go the other way and the remainder stand there and the team channel starts filling with confused chatter.

Honestly, this game isn't fun if I don't purposely attempt the oddball 'bad idea'. Heck, I farmed shriveled eyes using a R/Mo beastmaster outside seekers. Fastest way to get shriveled eyes? Heck no. Most interesting and then fun to find oddball builds? Yes indeed. Good for team builds? Definitely not.

You missed one I did today. I needed infusion on Somewhat Zen, so I just decided to fight there with 7 henchies, only three of them got tangled in the first Mantle versus Summit skirmish and wiped, leaving me with Alesia, Lina and Little Thorn. I opted to try and run it instead despite having no running skills equipped. It actually worked too for the most part. With three characters cross-monking and Little Thorn giving us a very dudicious use of Charge (amazingly dudicious for a brainless AI twit) we did really well until Lina got mobbed by the last bunch of trolls on that little stairway. We finally had to fight and killed two of them before scooting off to fight the shadow monkeys by the cave.

Now more than ever I really want to get an eight monk team going some time. 8)

On that note, does anyone have a real beastmaster team build? I can't think of one that actually uses pet attacks rather than corpse and body block fodder.

Havral did a beast master build on his warrior though I'd be hard pressed to find the distinction between "team build" and "solo build" where beast masters are concerned. I've experimented with BM's and have one planned for the expansion. It's not a hard way to play, just annoying the way the pet 'commands' have been developed. I'd rather that they respond to skill activations than actual attacks

[Green_Gloom]

On that note, does anyone have a real beastmaster team build? I can't think of one that actually uses pet attacks rather than corpse and body block fodder.

A decent basis for a BM build would be something like:
BM: 16
Expertise: 9+1

Call of Haste
Disrupting Lounge
Ferocious Strike
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Resurrection Signet

Basic offense and utility with decent stats. This leaves you with 2 open skill slots and the ability to get 9 in a third attribute of your choice. Or you could go for 13 Expertise (5 energy skills will cost only 2) and stick to BM & Expertise skills.

[Seijin]

On that note, does anyone have a real beastmaster team build? I can't think of one that actually uses pet attacks rather than corpse and body block fodder.

I use a type of BM build on my ranger that I'm bringing up. It seems to work pretty well.

Right now she's lvl 19 (R/W) and these are the stats and skills I have up:

Swordsmanship 10
Tactics 6 (alternatively you can use WS instead)
Beast Mastery 10 (9 + 1)
Expertise 10 (6 + 4)

4 Attribute Pts left over

Skills:
1 - Seeking Blade (5e, 4s recharge) +14 dmg, cannot be blocked...bleeds target if evaded.
2 - Predator's Pounce (5e, 5s) +25 dmg, 35 healing to pet
3 - Feral Lunge (5e, 10s) +25 dmg, Bleeds targets who are attacking for 15s.
4 - Melandru's Assault (10e, 5s) +15 dmg, +25 additional dmg to enchanted foe and all adjacent foes.
5 - Whirling Defense (10e, 60s) 16 seconds 75% evasion from attacks
6 - Healing Signet (or troll unguent if you go WS)
7 - Comfort Animal
8 - Charm Animal

I will also use Call of Haste in place of Melandru's Assault sometimes, it just depends on if there are any creatures that like using enchants. I have tried Bestial Pounce as well since it does +15 dmg and KD to targets casting spells, but its not always consistent if you want to try and use it as a type of interrupt.

I've also used Pure Strike in place of Seeking Blade because it cannot be blocked or evaded, but its recharge is twice as long as Seeking Blade and does +20 dmg instead of +14. Considering expertise is cutting my energy costs, I'd rather have the 4s recharge over the 8s recharge.

I'll probably push BM up to 14-16 and keep expertise at 10. I just had the superior expertise rune so decided to use it.

I can't say that my BM build is a "team" oriented build. I do seem to be doing more dmg than a lot of the wars that go along in the PuG's I'm in. I can imagine if a few BM's were in a group, Call of Haste and Call of Protection would be considered more team oriented. I honestly wouldn't mind trying a team of BM's out.

Okay, now a quick question about BM skills for anyone that uses them. I've accidentally hit one skill right after another (being over zealous in wanting to use them)...now, I noticed the pet doesn't use the attack at the exact instance you hit the skill. It seems to use it on its next attack (if its already in the process of attacking). So if I hit all 3 skills right after each other without waiting for the pet to finish its attack, will all 3 skills be "queued" in order and used by the pet? Or will the pet simply use the last skill command it was given?

We love everyone except you.

Oh what the hell, since you changed avatar from that hideous one you had before, we can love you too

KoP

I thought that Avatar was funny as hell and was surprised no one said anything about it sooner. =)

I only changed it because I was going through GWOnline.net's forums and saw a moderator using the same Avatar. I think he jacked it from me. It looked exactly the same. I've seen the picture around before, but I've never really seen an avatar of it. But I could be wrong.