I'm crazy-bad at this game, help!

[Zed-F]

A more legitimate use of the missle boats is to give them enough engine speed that they can retreat to one of your worlds in a turn, then redirect from there. You only attack every other turn but it feels less like cheese.

[HegemonKhan]

Sorry for necroing a dead thread, but as a new member, I can't make threads yet (I guess there's a post count requirement). so here's the thread topic I had wanted to make:

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***(for MoO1 v1.2)***

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(i know there's other MOO1 threads, but I wanted to make my own in hopes of getting help and it all being in this one thread for me to look at. so my apologizes for this thread, but it hopefully will be helpful for me in making and hopefully in allowing this thread to stay open/non-deleted)

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I got bored and so I decided to replay some of my old computer games, and I've took this game back up.

I am really enjoying it now, for its challenge aspect, as compared to turn-based games nowadays it's quite a simple game. so, it would be boring, but its level of challenge is making it still quite fun and enjoyable!

I've decided to take it slowly, playing on the easiest difficulty level and the smallest map size and only against 1 opponent, just trying to use and get to know each race and get a victory with them, before I try other game options to make it harder.

I've played the Klackons, Humans, Sakkras, Silicoids, Psilons, Mrrshans, Alkaris, and Bulrathis so far.

I just messed up my 4th most recent game, as the Psilons against the Bulrathis, expanding too quickly (getting next to the Bulrathis) without making any ships ("Farmer's Gambit" as you call it here, lol), and they started to transport conquer me, and then I quit the game, lol. I didn't think they would... very foolish obviously of me.

Lesson Learned:

when against the Bulrathis, MAKE COMBAT SHIPS! (or missile bases... but ships are really ALWAYS better. tzu sun 's art of war. mobility, doing both offense+defense at any colony with ships, vs non-mobility of missile bases doing only defense at that single colony) to go along with your expansion game, lol.

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so, if anyone's "here" (looks at this board still) I'd love strategy inputs!

from very generalized to more specific to race specific to race vs certain race specific and even uber turn for turn specific
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-HK

[codehappy]

All right, here's some tips to start:

After you found a new colony, transport some population from another more established world to help make it useful sooner. Population in MOO grows the fastest when a planet is at half its maximum capacity. If you can get a new colony world up to about a third full with a transport or two it will grow to maturity much more quickly.

Don't try and do a little of everything on a planet (build a ship, build defenses, build factories, terraform, research) -- give it some people, get the factories up first, and definitely specialize worlds with modifiers (rich, poor, artifacts, etc.) If a planet needs terraforming, put its production there, if it needs a planetary shield, put its production there, etc. (Don't spend more than you need to in order to finish an improvement off, though, particularly in terraforming -- excess spending in terraforming doesn't go to the planetary reserve, despite what the in-game message says; it's just wasted.) Generally speaking, building and refitting factories always gets priority -- the sooner those are up the sooner your planetary production improves.

Concentrate your early research, and don't start research until you have factories up. Early teching should revolve around rapid expansion: you'll want propulsion for range, planetology for cleanup/controlled techs, computers for early espionage boost and robotic controls, construction for reduced industrial waste/reduced factory costs. Weapons and force fields are low priority at this point. If your race has a specific research strength, you'll want to concentrate research points there sooner rather than later.

Techs come in groups -- for example, there are group 1 propulsion techs and you won't be given a choice from the second group of propulsion techs until you obtain a tech from the first group. These groups are shown in the tech tree in the manual. If you don't like the choices given in a group, or simply want to get new tech choices as quickly as possible (perhaps as a beeline to something good), you need to get something from the previous tech group in that field first. Some important examples: ECM Jammer I isn't very useful on its own, but it's super cheap, gets you to better Computer techs sooner, and lets you know whether Improved Robotic Controls III is available. Hand Lasers are also a very cheap tech, are generally more useful than other group 1 weapons, and if they immediately open up Neutron Pellet Guns it's an absurdly powerful tech path.

Don't start researching a tech and then cut science spending in that field to zero -- research does decay when spending stops.

Provided you make the proper preparations, tech stealing in MOO is very powerful for the amount of resources spent. Espionage success is dependent on your Computer tech level (the number shown on the tech screen) relative to your opponent. There's always some chance of being caught, but provided you manage your diplomatic situation reasonably well and get ahead of the other factions quickly it won't matter very much. (When you get sufficiently ahead, you'll be able to frame other races for the spy thefts and effectively cancel out diplo maluses and stir up AI/AI conflict that way.) Be aware that producing too many spies on one race increases the chance of your spies being caught much more than it increases the probability of a successful penetration.

Missile bases and planetary shields are key defenses, actually. You want to research, trade or steal for them as soon as reasonably possible -- generally, REXing is your early priority, then as you and the AIs run out of room getting planetary defenses is key. Thanks to the way the MOO combat system works sufficient shielding will neutralize all enemy weaponry, and decent missile bases can destroy enemy ships. (On the flip side, if your missiles are too far out-of-date compared to the enemies' shields, they will be completely useless.) Scatter Pack bases can wipe out large enemy stacks. It's quite possible to defend your star empire without ever building a combat ship -- in fact, I'm almost always dead last in the power ratings (until and if I decide to wipe out my rivals, anyway) and I win often without building a single warship. Ship maintenance in MOO is quite expensive, and every ship you build should have a specific purpose.

Now, after saying you don't need ships with weapons, I'll also say this: on Hard and Impossible early expansion needs to be as fast and aggressive as possible. This may mean knocking out ships with a laser or two to park around juicy colonies that you want to keep enemy colony ships away from. The AI does provide armed escort for its colships pretty early, so a simple scout won't prevent AI settlement!

Shield-halving weapons are useful much longer than other types. Weapons also miniaturize with additional Weapon tech levels, and ships get more room with additional Construction tech levels, so later in the game Neutron Pellet Guns, a low-level shield halving weapon, are so small that they remain a very useful weapon in quantity.

Use (and abuse) the planetary reserve. Rich planets can contribute production directly to reserves at effectively a 0% penalty (the 50% penalty cancels out the 100% production bonus). Ultra rich planets actually keep part of their bonus after the reserve penalty -- you can then, if you like, put the reserve spending back into the ultra rich world to get the multiplier a second time. (This doesn't spiral out of control because the reserve can only double a planet's production per turn, but it does allow you to build the reserve fund a lot faster.) A little bit of galactic arbitrage to build up the reserve fund will come in handy if you need the boost in an emergency; if there isn't a production emergency you can use the Ultra Rich reserve fund to effectively double research in your other planets.

Read the tournament reports posted here. Not only are they enjoyable reads, but you'll pick up a lot of finer points of the game from them. In particular you'll learn a lot about how to play the opening fifty turns or so -- as in most games, the opening is the most important part to nail down.

[HegemonKhan]

awesomely informative post, thanks!

I generally do most of that stuff you talk about, though I'm still playing "sand box" games, just to try each race and get used to them. before moving onto harder settings games.

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generally how I play my sandbox games:

Turn 1:

*look at where I am in the galaxy, through galaxy "world" map.
*send colony ship to colonize a 2nd star
*send my 2 scout ships to the 2 furthest stars in the "best" directions (from looking at map). I try to go at the rest of the map and/or towards the A.I. for the REX of game, like is done in many such games like this, like civ and such.
*I build (usually 2) scout ships instead of factories for: (1) "recon/scouting/knowledge" of planets(2) possibly finding/getting to artifact stars first for free techs (3) preventing colonization by the A.I. with the "scout sentry" trick
*my prefered tech from an artifact star is propulsion techs that give the more travel (parsec) distance (whatever they called, the warp drive techs). As this I feel gives the most benefit; allowing me to scout and "sentry" more of the galaxy with scout ships. allows my colony ships to go farther. allows my combat ships to go farther. allows my transports (for transport sieging A.I. stars, especially if Bulrathis) to go farther.
*I change the tech screen so to only be researching propulsion tech (though I'm not making any research points yet)
*every turn I micromanage every star I have, to prevent economy to going to the planetary reverse (as if I remember right it gets halved when done so, and in the very early game, you don't get any planetary reserve funds, completely wasting all those unspent funds going to your planetary reserve)

Turns 2-A:

*I keep making scouts until I have enough to leave 1 scout on ever star that I can reach. again I micromanage any excess funds into making factories.
*I then keep making factories until I can build a colony ship in 7 turns.
*I also keep making factories, and then once they max, I drop factory production, just one less then max, and put all the excess funds into ECO to raise population, as that then lets me build more factories. I try to max my stars' economy as quickly as I can
*I do NOT send pop transport to my 2nd colony (or any colony actually, unless I really need to or it's now beneficial to do, which would take too much to explain my reasoning in this regard), just letting it grow on its own instead. I do this because, I like having/getting stars at max output, to do stuff, such as spam colony ships or do lots of research or to make or be ready to make combat ships if need/opportunity arises for doing so. I feel this is worth the cost of the possible benefit gained from maxing pop growth.
*on my second colony, I make factories, even if poor or ultra poor. As I think in getting more pop (ECO pumping), just make idle workers, wasted funds, no increase in production. Ya, I could have them do research, but it's really so minimal without factories' production increase anyways. So, I see it's the most beneficial to make factories even for ultra poor stars.

Turns A-B:

*I'm in REX mode, pumping out colony ships and scouts (and/or my second colony is making the scouts) and finishing maxing its economy (factories and pop-ECO pumping) with home star colony.
*with my second colony, I'm making also maximizing economy, making factories and then pop-ECO pumping and then factories. And/or making scout ships too.
*When I can, I research propulsion tech, which allows me to go further, scouting and sentrying more stars with scout ships and colonize more stars too. Also I can move my combat ships or transports to attack the A.I.'s stars. Also, I like getting the engine techs, for faster ships traveling on the "world" map. good advantage for/of colony ships, transports, scouts, and combat ships, epsecially over the A.I.

Turns B-C:

*At this point, I can usually win the game as I got more colonies and thus more production, and I can usually now reach the A.I. too; by pumping out combat ships (a missile type ship to destroy all opposition and a bomber type ship to nearly raze or raze their colonies' factories/pop, if not the Bulrathis)

*though many times I keep playing instead, for fun/longer/perfectionist game.
*at this point, I nearly have the entire map colonized that I can. so now it's about enhancing those colonies and expanding onto hostile stars. this is done via researching Planetology (TerraForming, EcoRes, HosEnv's), Construction (RedInd, RemIndWas), and computers (ImpRob).

Turns C-D:

*basically building up my "empire" and researching, and defending.

Turns D-E:

*Conquest/War Campaign or Combat Ship "Flooding"

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when I meet the A.I. (as in being able to do diplomacy with them):

I actually usually do maximize my internal security, as the A.I. will steal my tech, allowing them to keep up with me tech wise, even though I completely out produce/research them.

preferably, it's nice to get RIW, ER, and TF, before doing so, as this greatly helps you able to afford it, as these techs greatly enhance your economy.

I really don't like spying on them, because this early in the game, my Comp Tech isn't very high, and my spies get caught like every turn, it's too annoying a hassle, having to save and load like ~10 times, to prevent your spies from getting caught. The only time I'll spy is if I don't have a vital tech, and they do have it.

since it's 1v1, I usually ignore trade, as they usually make the trade agreement anyways going to war with me, from my REX and attacking them and/or maybe my spies.

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I don't do the "infinite funds" planetory reserve trick, as I feel it's too exploitive/cheatful.

I actually usually completely ignore the planetory reserve, trying not to build it up, lol. though if a get a wealthy merchant event or accumulate a reserve, I'll leave the funds in there, for an emergency, instead of pumping them back into my colonies, as I can afford not taking advantage of this benefit were I to do so, as I'm only doing "sandbox" race-learning games right now.

[HegemonKhan]

hey I just thought of this for the Darloks:

what if after you steal techs, you then exchange them for more techs. Ya, it makes everyone equal, and undoes your possible spying tech advantage, but it could be a way to improve relations with everyone, and because everyone is equal, they can eliminate each other... as you frame them into going to war with each other, hehe:D

[RefSteel]

hey I just thought of this for the Darloks:

what if after you steal techs, you then exchange them for more techs. Ya, it makes everyone equal, and undoes your possible spying tech advantage, but it could be a way to improve relations with everyone, and because everyone is equal, they can eliminate each other... as you frame them into going to war with each other, hehe:D

An interesting strategy. One issue: Tech trading never improves relations with MoO AIs, no matter how favorable the deals may be. Trade agreements do, of course, as do NAPs and Alliances, but tech exchange is relations-neutral.

[HegemonKhan]

ah thanks, I didn't know that. So tech trading is only beneficial directly to you if you make an advantageus trade (you get a vital tech and they get an insignificant one), but offers no benefit in terms of diplomacy/relations.

[RefSteel]

ah thanks, I didn't know that. So tech trading is only beneficial directly to you if you make an advantageus trade (you get a vital tech and they get an insignificant one)

It could be argued that tech trading is beneficial as long as you get a useful tech, even if they get an even more useful one: If I trade a valuable tech to four other races, getting four less-but-still-useful techs in return, I've come out way ahead ... and I have a tendency in tech trading (in any single-player 4X game, but increasingly as the importance of strategy and tactics increase in comparison with "brute force" production) to assume that overall tech parity always favors me since I can use it more intelligently than the AI, in spite of its production bonuses, etc.