Imperium Two - Hydrophobia

[Justus_II]

OK, done with the report, here's the link.
Justus II's Imperia Two Report

Great game, and looking forward to the next one! B)

[Maniac Marshall]

It's really interesting to see how much variation in the game is caused by those early alliances.

Most peoples games seem to have had lots of people allied with each other (especially the Humans), which caused all kinds of expansion variation and greatly affected strategy. A couple people even lost to the humans. Conversely, Zed was able to benifit from a Sakkra/Human alliance.

Oddly, durring the first 115 years of my game there was only 1 alliance that I know of, which was Human/Bulrathi and it didn't affect expansion one bit. There were several alliances that were formed in the last 10 years of my game, but none of these had had any visible affect on the game yet.

It looks like if the Humans get an early alliance with the Alkiri, they can branch out and become a signifigant power. The fact that the Alkiri never made any early alliances in my game had the affect of making them the lone superpower, with everyone else reduced to 3 (Human/Sakkra/Silicoid) or 4 (Bulrathi) planets for the first 75 years of the game while they had at least a dozen. Only the Silicoids would recover from this when they finally learned range and grabed about 10 planets at light speed.

Anyway, it was a good read and looked like tons of fun.

[Brackard]

Oh, I had fun, but the victory is bittersweet. When comparing games to others here, I see I lack a bit on the strategic aspects. My nearest competitor was hundreds of years ahead of me in victory finish. As much as I'd love to 'bask' in the glory, the fact that just about any other person here would have (and did) walk over this scenario tends to lessen the experience a bit.

You do tend to learn things. For instance, the porcupine principle. On average difficulty, no matter how weak you are, the strong enemy opponent AI with less than 10 bases still tends to be a much more appealing target than you do with 150+ bases.

The only reason the game ran so long is because there was no run away AI. The rocks and birds battled it out for hundreds of years and neither could really get the upper hand. The lesser AI's (me included) got pounded until late when the combined might of the rocks, cats, and bears finally brought the birds down from thier pedestal.

You see the tech graphs. Every AI except the humans had finished thier tech trees. The only way I managed to pull out of the whole tech wise was because of the repeated retaking of a few planets that the Alkari and I traded. The Alkari would bring thier SOD, gain air superiority, land troops. Leave. Hmmmm, no bases, no air support, bring in the troops. Take the planet, gain 5 techs, here come the Alkari again. Rinse, repeat. Was it a cheat? They could have stood the planet up, but had too many wars going on. At that point in the game, I was doing everything I could to stay competitive.

On to the -1 bug. I came across it. What was the exact effect outside that I didn't want to touch the SOD anyway?

[Erick the Red]

I start by looking at the scoring and making some initial plans. Glassing Altair seems to be an easy 5 pts. At 25 points for getting all the planets and +1 per planet, it appears to be worth sandbagging a won game, but I don’t plan on trying it. Orion will come too late. I tend not to play the diplomatic side of the game too well, so I don’t plan on playing for a unanimous vote.

It seems that maximum points would come from an early diplomatic win, but I don’t play the diplomatic side of the game very well, so I don’t think I will make a real effort for early diplomacy, and I can’t imagine getting a unanimous vote.

I'm thinking I will go for some quick aggression. My experience with forgoing missile bases in the previous game makes me think that I don't have to devote many resources to early defense. It may be better to bring the battle to the enemies. The Mrsshan are excellent at weapons research. I think I will concentrate on weapons and propulsion. This will result good ships and fast moving transports, and maybe I’ll just capture the advanced techs from other fields.

[Looking back, things didn’t go exactly as I thought, but when do they ever.]

Well, enough planning, let's start the game...

I send a Colony ship to the only range 3 planet. I’m happy to see a nice jungle planet, and build several scouts soon after.


2321 Fierias is up to 158 factories, and it's time to take stock of the situation. Of the 10 available planets 2 are Tundra and two are radiated. So I see controlled barren will not be useful. To hop beyond the tundra and radiated to the right looks to require range 6. I can see one planet nearby that is within range 4.

I test the research options. Industrial waste 80, eco restoration, and hydrogen fuel cells are the only choices.

2326 After researching hydrogen fuel cells, I ponder a bit. Here’s my problem. I looked at the screen and spent a lot of time wondering if the planets are within range 4 or 5 of each other. Many of the steps seemed to be range 5 to me, so I select range 6 over the engines. I switch the tech emphasis to planetology. I will slowly work towards the waste reduction techs.

Now, here’s my problem. I’m looking at the screen and spending a lot of time wondering if the planets are within range 4 or 5 of each other. Many of the steps seem to be range 5 to me.

It’s a bit painful for me to look at this early screen shot I took. Why oh why did I not think to click on the scouts and see how many turns it would take them to arrive at the various systems?



2333 Guardas has been founded. I see a Sakkra scout at the Tundra planet. I see that Uxmai is indeed within 4 parsecs. I wish I had known that earlier. 33 colonists are sent to Guradas. Fierias starts on a colony ship, since I now know it will have a destination.

2337 The humans chase me off from Toranor. The yellow star to the north named Ryoun is scouted. Hiss! Who would ever want to live on the edge of the galaxy on such a horrible planet! Our scout turns tail in disgust.

2339 Improved Eco is researched. Death spores is an easy choice. We are about to get reduced waste. I switch research to concentrate on propulsion.

2343 Uxmai founded. Oops. Gorra is indeed in 4 pc. Range 6 was not so important. Well, it may still come in handy, since I am more likely to have to hop over planets. Fierras is asked to make another colony ship, now that I know I can use it. :rolleyes:

Also, I meet the humans. I may contest Gorra with them. They've expanded a bit better than me. The humans are willing to trade range 5 for eco restoration. I accept as it will end the planet range guessing game that was so provoking me.

2344 Reduced waste is researched. I'm happy to see Duralloy armor is an option. I switch all research to propulsion.

2353 Irridium fuel cells researched. I'm very happy to see sublight drives as an option. Let's see what research possibilities there are in the other 3 fields. The humans will trade +10 terraforming for reduced waste 80% or range 6. Since I have no terraforming in my near future plans, I accept.

Tech choices are Battle Computer Mark II, Class 2 deflectors, and hand lasers.

2354 The next weapon choice is Hyper X, Ion Cannon, or Fusion bomb. Ion cannons are reasonable weapons - I will pick those and maybe a better missile tech next round. Also, I am about to produce my last colony ship. The fertile poor planet and the ultra poor planet will be used as population factories, so I will start slowly maxing out factories on my worlds. I plan on researching duralloy, ion cannons, and sublight drives and then going on the offensive.

2355 Settling Paranor reveals the Silicoids and Bulrathi. The Silicoid will trade industry 9 for range 5, which I take since I don't plan on improving my industry rating in the near future. I'm anxious to scout Centari and Rigel to see if they are habitable by me.

2361 Centauri is defended, but based on its population it looks to be of favorable habitability. I'm also the first to colonize 8 systems. Since it looks like I can attack the Silicoid or Bulrathi, I increase the trade agreement and sign a nonaggression pact with the Humans.

I plan on completing some research, then attacking.

2367 Battle Computer Mark II researched. Improved Robotic Controls III is the next option. I can't see passing this up, so I will research it. A couple of turns later Ion Canons are finished.

2378 Robotics III researched. Select improved space scanner. I wasn't intending on following the computer track this far, but those are just so tasty. Especially in this scenario, where someone will be able to occupy planets in my rear lines and I will want to detect fleets that are attacking me from there.

Of course upgrading all the factories will delay my attack fleet a bit. Set some research to personal deflector shield.

2384 I finish upgrading factories. I see that I have around 1000BC to spend on research, and the armor and engines are almost finished.

Sublight drives lead to fusion drives. Duralloy armor leads to auto repair. Now I check and it costs 10 BC for a small bomber with a nuclear bomb. I'm thinking this is bad for the Silicoids. A fighter with an ion cannon costs 17. Around 20 fighters should take down a defense base.

2391 A violent quake hits Uxmai. It’s an omen that trouble is brewing for the Silicoids.



2395 As my ships are on their way to Centauri, I steal battle suits from the silicoids. Also, I research ion rifle, and choose stinger missiles. The personal deflector shield is on its way.

I defeat the 4 missile bases of Centauri, and am relieved to see it is not an Ocean planet. I send troops. After the personal deflector shields come in, I shift some research to computers for the improved space scanner.

2400 A violent plague on Fierias? Researchers trace the plague back to illegal fish imports from the ocean world Ryoun. The government wants to cover up the fact that there’s any Mrsshan contact with that ocean world, so the plague lasts far longer than it might have. Which is another way of saying that I forgot about it and let the population drop, then later forgot to spend on restoring the population when it was finally cured.

The people are distracted by the glorious capture of Centauri anyway.

2406 The galaxy takes notice of my looting of Crysslon, and a council vote is held. It's me vs the Sakkra. Alkari(5) - abstain. Bulrathi(2) - Sakkra. Sillicoid (2) - Sakkra. Humans(6) – abstain. Sakkra(8), Mrsshan(8).

While at the council my diplomats talk with the humans and agree to trade planetary shields for industrial tech 7, and declare war on the Bulrathi for Battle suits.

I’m planning on building a second fleet to start harrassing the Bulrathi when the nasty bedtime alarm interrupts me.

2408 Finish Fusion Bomb. Select Megabolt cannon. Now that I will be able to build bombers with a solid ability to penetrate planetary shields, it's time to start planning for the endgame. I can defeat any enemy fleet and get past any planetary defenses. Planetology is now a very attractive tech tree, as access to radiated environment will help score, and more population can help with the vote.

Researching planetology to gain access to radiated environments will net score, so I shift research to planetology. Also I realize that the 2 close Bulrathi planets, Tau Cygni and Cygni don't have many factories. I will want to bomb them and resettle.

2410 Improved Space Scanner comes in. Select robotic Controls IV, and transfer more research to planetology. I hadn’t planned no so much computer research, but the game kept tempting me. Before launching attacks on the Bulrathi, my bombers target some rich Silicoid worlds I am unable to settle. It takes a few turns for me to clear a planet, which the AI does not deal with very well. Here's a screen shot of the silicoids sending troops to reinforce a colony I just removed, from a colony I'm about to visit.



2413 Research Death Spores and select controlled inferno. Next turn my first attack fleet arrives at the Bulrathi. I discover that you can’t bomb a planet and then colonize it in the same turn.

2423 I’ve colonized Cygni and am ready to strike at the Bulrathi core.

2424 Vote. It's Me vs the Sakkra. Alkari 6 for me. Bulrathi 6 for Sakkra, Silicoid 2 for Sakkra, Human 6 for me, Sakkra 8 for them. Hey, I had 23/36. So close! I wasn't paying attention. I could have had peace with the Silicoids and they would have voted for me against the Sakkra they are at war with. I wasn't expecting the Alkari to vote for me though. I am disappointed to not have ended the game here. It’s in a wrap up phase, and I would have preferred it to be over.

2425 Controlled Inferno is researched, soil enrichment is selected, still concentrating on planetology.

2426 Imra is revealed to be an ultra poor arid. Where is the Bulrathi colony with factories for me to get some tech? Ursa will do. It will take a whopping 7 turns for the transports to arrive there though.

2427 The Humans offer an alliance, which I accept.

3431 The Sakkra offer an alliance, which I reject. The Bulrathi had many enemies, apparently, since the Silicoids had also offered an alliance. The remainder of the Bulrathi fleet, 10 large ships, impales itself on my guard of 200 fighters at Cygni.

3433 Soil Enrichment is researched. Woohoo! Cloning and atmospheric terraforming are both options. I opt for cloning.

2436 Hmm. The Human-Alkari alliance has broken. It looks like if I backstab the Humans I can win a vote against the Sakkra, since with a reduced voting block from the Humans and the Alkari on my side since they are at war with the Sakkra I would have enough votes. I ask the Humans to declare war on the Sakkra, cancel the alliance, and send troops to capture a newly claimed world from them in the southwest.

2441 Fusion drives come in. I can now design a fast ship with inertial stabilizers to make quick work of the Humans. The Sakkra agree to attack the Silicoids. Um, I’m not impressed by that decision. I guess they don’t realize they are in danger of losing the vote.

2443 The Terran attack fleet arrives. The terran attack fleet perishes. :war:



2445 My counter attacks against the Humans commence. Zoctan is invaded. Firma is bombed. The Bulrathi will agree to peace.

2449 The Humans will accept peace. I didn’t glass the terran worlds, instead reducing the population and invading to pad my score a bit. Now everyone is at war with the Sakkra. I research cloning, not that it matters. The final vote is Alkari -6, Bulrathi 2, Silicoid 4, Humans 4, Sakkra 9, and 22 votes for the Mrsshan. I get the bonus points for a unanimous victory. Wow, when I was making my initial plans, I didn’t realize you could win the vote by just asking everyone else to declare war on the other party.

I count 23 planets under my control, for a final score of 150 + 23 + 5 = 178.

[Sirian]

Regarding the fleet bug, there are theoretically supposed to be ship upkeep costs for each ship. The negative fleet bug always takes place when a civ with maxed out fleet loses some of its income -- trade agreements that die, loss of planets, revolts, etc. Well, if they couldn't pay for what they already had, how are they paying for the new 32k SoD? It would seem more than just the SoD is in play and out of whack. Goodness knows what exactly is going on in the economy of the offendind civ at that point.

Trying to use OREO to fix it only works prior to any civ discovering a future tech. OREO cannot preserve future techs, so you can get rid of the bugged fleet but only at the costing of imposing bugged tech results. So I'm afraid that's not a solution. In fact, learning that we DON'T have a cure for this fatal, game-halting bug has been problematic. It's going to wreck some Imperium games, I'm afraid. Already has messed up one: yours here. But it's going to get worse, because any MOO game that goes long risks triggering it. This fatal bug has been the reason I don't just play MOO over and over and over and over forever.

I may have to ask for help getting Imperium Three started. The game is designed, but I haven't been able to make time to mess around with that Pentium 1 I'm assembling. I also may be making a move away from WinME to WinXP soon, and that would take care of it, too.

If BamBam or Zed or other experience MOO/RB player wants to help me get the next two Imperia games off the ground, email me. Otherwise I'll try to squeeze it in by next Monday.


- Sirian

[Zed-F]

I haven't played around with the editor at all, so if the next Imperia require editing to get going, I'm not sure how much help I can be. But if it's just setting parameters & starting a game, or playing it out a tad to make sure the map is suitable, I can help with that. You can send me a PM if that's good enough to get Imp3 started.

[Brackard]

First of all, very nice report. I enjoy reading a nicely put together report. Thanks.

I don't know how the rockswere so wimpy in your game. That's pretty amazing. I couldn't stop the rocks if I wanted to. Your expansion was pretty amazing as well. Well played game!

[Brackard]

I would have to assume this was misposted under the wrong person's game? Anyway, my ISP has been acting up so the .jpg's have been REALLY slow in uploading. I havne't had any real problems with this so I'm assuming it's just a short term thing.

[Justus_II]

Thanks for the comments. I wondered about the Silicoids as well. I wasn't sure how much was due to range tech limits, and the fact that they didn't seem to get the standard early alliances, as they were at war with everyone most of the time that I was aware of. However, their non-standard personality traits may have something to do with it. As I understand, AI expansion is managed by a number of variables that trigger 'ages of expansion', and the personality has a role in triggering that. If they didn't have their traditional Expansionist trait, maybe their expansion became more dice-dependent, so that in some games, they spread out, and others they just sat home and built up.

Another factor is Orion. I saw the Humans send several large fleets (not large enough! to disappear at Orion. Since it was so close to the Silicoid start, maybe they wasted resources in my game sending fleets in futile attempts at Orion, whereas in other games, they avoided that temptation. I'm definitely curious what factors seem to influence the AI's development.

[Griselda]

Read them here.

-Griselda