Realms Beyond Werewolf 2 : Game Thread

[Lewwyn]

Don't give me any ideas Kyan already hates me soo much

He's not the only one.

[Lewwyn]

Scooter, you keep throwing air quotes around the "trusted circle". Do you feel we're untrustworthy? Are we railroading you? Are we wolves? Do we have such terrible judgment that we've lynched a villager every time? Please your case is smoke and mirrors.

You're simply telling us what, by our own definition a WW should do, and then telling us that you don't do that. Why would a WW continue to act in a manner we suspect when all he has to do is put up posts with a lot of content and good insight?

How about the "trusted circle". It was formed around the masons. How is that a bad thing? Isn't that what the masons are there for? Why else would they be in the game? At most there were only ever 4 people in the trusted circle. At most. And what else has happened so far in this game?

What else? The voting. 3 out of 4 lynches have been WWs. So far I think we've been doing pretty good, and if you suggest that the "trusted circle" have nothing to do with that then you are simply lying to yourself.

As for Ug. I'm not suspicious of him based on as much low content posting like you say. However, I am a little suspicious based on voting patterns and his timing on vote switches. Still I have higher suspects on my list, including you, for this very post you wrote defending yourself.

Why? Because your post is not about hard facts either, though you present them as such. In fact, all you are doing is shoving blame around, while vindicating yourself. Basically your entire post can be summed as, "everyone is wrong but me", but I'm not buying. So yes, your voting record may or may not be the thing that makes you suspicious, but your voting record combined with your posts makes me believe you are a werewolf. Tone, posture and content all speak to me as if you are acting. These are intangibles, maybe but when added to your voting record, well they convince me.

[Gaspar]

Current Voting:

Serdoa (4v): Mr. Nice Guy, Ug the Barbarian, Irgy, Kyan
Ug the Barbarian (4v): Dantski, Serdoa, scooter, Sareln

No vote (1v): Gaspar
Not yet voting (4): Lewwyn, Roland, Rowain, haphazard1

Sequence of actions:
1.) Mr. Nice Guy votes Serdoa
2.) Ug the Barbarian votes Serdoa
3.) Irgy votes Serdoa
4.) Dantski votes Ug the Barbarian
5.) Serdoa votes Ug the Barbarian
6.) Kyan votes Serdoa
7.) Gaspar votes scooter
8.) scooter votes Ug the Barbarian
9.) Gaspar switches No Vote
10.) Sareln votes Ug the Barbarian

I think that's current, though as always, double checking is helpful.

[Sareln]

As a note, if you wish to make nice lists, the command is:

[List=1 ]

[*]

[*]
...

[*]

[\LIST ]

It will auto-number for you.

[Dantski]

One thing I'd say in favour of Serdoa or sccoter at this point is that even if you suspect them, they do post and are ACTIVE in discussion. Having them around a bit longer is preferable to someone staying in the background.

@ Ug - please contribute more, your lack of reasons for your suspicions and general finger pointing isn't productive, if you want people to seriously consider you as someone to be trusted then do yourself and the villager a favour and explain to us more about your thinking

[scooter]

Scooter, you keep throwing air quotes around the "trusted circle". Do you feel we're untrustworthy? Are we railroading you? Are we wolves? Do we have such terrible judgment that we've lynched a villager every time? Please your case is smoke and mirrors.

You're simply telling us what, by our own definition a WW should do, and then telling us that you don't do that. Why would a WW continue to act in a manner we suspect when all he has to do is put up posts with a lot of content and good insight?

How about the "trusted circle". It was formed around the masons. How is that a bad thing? Isn't that what the masons are there for? Why else would they be in the game? At most there were only ever 4 people in the trusted circle. At most. And what else has happened so far in this game?

What else? The voting. 3 out of 4 lynches have been WWs. So far I think we've been doing pretty good, and if you suggest that the "trusted circle" have nothing to do with that then you are simply lying to yourself.

As for Ug. I'm not suspicious of him based on as much low content posting like you say. However, I am a little suspicious based on voting patterns and his timing on vote switches. Still I have higher suspects on my list, including you, for this very post you wrote defending yourself.

Why? Because your post is not about hard facts either, though you present them as such. In fact, all you are doing is shoving blame around, while vindicating yourself. Basically your entire post can be summed as, "everyone is wrong but me", but I'm not buying. So yes, your voting record may or may not be the thing that makes you suspicious, but your voting record combined with your posts makes me believe you are a werewolf. Tone, posture and content all speak to me as if you are acting. These are intangibles, maybe but when added to your voting record, well they convince me.

You apparently seriously misunderstood my post. You are reading wayyyyy into the fact that I used quotes around trusted circle.

If you say my posts make me suspicious, please give some examples. I've made more than anyone else in this game, so you have plenty to choose from. I'm suspicious for defending myself? Please. I'm not at all railing against the trusted circle (btw, I used the quotes because I'm using it like a name, but since that apparently offended you I'll stop). I'm saying that I've argued against people who are IN the trusted circle, and I think that's a large part of why I've been painted as suspicious - for simply disagreeing at times.

The end result though, is every time I've written a post that is contrary to the general opinion of the trusted circle, it's a benefit to the village, because it gives a different perspective. It helps prevent groupthink, and I think that I've contributed in keeping that from happening. Think about it, if I disagree with you, you have to think more. That's a good thing. Debate helps us, while vague posts like Ug's helps the werewolves, because it doesn't contribute actual thoughts/evidence, it's just low-content noise. If you want to lynch one of the few people who has repeatedly had the guts to propose a unique opinion that helps us think things through from a different perspective... Then by all means vote for me.

If you think my point was that the trusted circle is bad and I'm the savior to the village, you missed my point, and I apologize if I was unclear. If you can show evidence where I've posted something that comes across as wolfish, please present it, but just saying that I've done it without presenting evidence is dubious, especially when I have nearly 100 posts in this thread for you to choose from. To be honest, you sound like you want me lynched, and you are blinding yourself a little bit as a result.

[Lewwyn]

I'm going through your posts. And I really hate this. I hate that in order to somehow "prove" my viewpoint I have to somehow go through almost 100 pages of posts to adequately squash your blase defense. "blah blah, go find some evidence in my posts. And even when you do I can explain it. No wolf is going to post something that gives "proof" and this is entirely my point. The only thing you can do is try to read tone.

Here's a quote of yours from earlier in the game:

This is one of the best posts in awhile. Truth be told, it probably doesn't matter who gets scried tonight for this exact reason. Some might say the mayor should be scried instead. Does it really matter? I say no, not for a few days at least. Up to the discretion of the seer.

Mechanics question: I was under the impression that when the seer checks someone, he only finds out if they are a villager or werewolf. So if the seer checks a mason, the answer he'd get from fire&ice would be "villager," correct?

Wow sounds like someone gave a good content post that you liked. Guess who you were speaking about. Ug the Barbarian. Funny how you say now that he hasn't posted good content. Honestly, you're asking for good content from everyone 24/7 or you are going to use that to accuse them. If I was a werewolf I would take advantage of the perception that someone who doesn't post a lot is trying to stay hidden. As a result I'd post a lot, like you. Then I'd find villagers like Ug or Dantski and use this to get them lynched.

So you then say, "You're blinded and obviously just want to lynch me. No one should listen to you because you are obviously blinded and have no proof. I'm such a good villager dispelling groupthink making sure there is no harmful consensus."

Arguing with a wolf is annoying because they'll always have an answer. That's what they have to do, simply twist things backwards, make everything difficult. Its impossible to pin a wolf down in any other way than to simply vote for them. You and Serdoa share the same characteristics. Opportunistic, ambivalent, deflective, slippery and defiant.

I think one of the most telling moments was when Meiz was on the block. You two argued for him so hard. I found that super suspicious. The only true way to have some arguing for your innocence that defiantly is if they know something like A) you are a villager power role, B) they know you are an innocent because they are a wolf. Opportunity to gain cred? Indeed.

One more thing. You ask us for proof, but you never really have a solid target. You never "gather proof" like you ask us to. You are always "helping" by "adding" to the conversation but all you ever do is tear apart arguments you never build anything. So freaking worthless.

I'm so burnt out. I"m not posting anymore its useless arguing with a wolf.

[Lewwyn]

Serdoa

[scooter]

Alright, you've made up your mind and nothing I say will change it. I guess I just hope you're the only one with your viewpoint. If someone else agrees with any part of his most recent post, quote it and point it out, and I'll do my best to address it.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I'm going through your posts. And I really hate this. I hate that in order to somehow "prove" my viewpoint I have to somehow go through almost 100 pages of posts to adequately squash your blase defense. "blah blah, go find some evidence in my posts. And even when you do I can explain it. No wolf is going to post something that gives "proof" and this is entirely my point. The only thing you can do is try to read tone.

Thank you, Lewwyn, for saving me a lot of headache. This post is brilliant. I will refer to it when the time comes to lynch Scooter. I hope the whole village will listen to it. And this snippet, describing Scooter and Serdoa:

Opportunistic, ambivalent, deflective, slippery and defiant.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

It's important to notice that in terms of voting, word choice, and tone, Scooter and Serdoa have been one-and-the-same in this game. One could say they've played this game as a team. Given your accurate description, I think it's clear which team they've played on.

Assuming we're right, my only question: who is the third wolf?