Realms Beyond Werewolf 2 : Game Thread

[Irgy]

For all that I tend to try and keep our of them myself, flame wars are supposed to be half the fun of forum-werewolf. People get all fired up and argumentative while the rest of us eat popcorn or have our own fights. It's only if you start to take it personally that it's a problem. I think people are just getting burned out though rather than offended. The out-of-game communication makes for an extremely involved and tiring experience.

Anyway, I'm back from my tonsil operation, and feeling pretty good considering, as long as I don't try and swallow anything.

Looks like I missed a thoroughly unproductive day in the end. I've somehow kept my clean slate of not-wrong votes, although like day 2 it's hard to say if there was actually a right vote to be had. Meanwhile Roland and Serdoa have kept their almost entirely dirty slates of bad votes. Although unless we all vote the same someone's bound to be wrong more often than the others, so who knows. I'm starting to wonder whether I should try and step into the world of psychological rather than game-theoretical analysis after all. Which means a whole lot of re-reading. Wish me luck.

[Lewwyn]

Thanks guys makes me feel better about my argumentative playing. I suppose we could simply lynch Serdoa or Scooter tomorrow. But I think its time to turn the game on its head.

I've uploaded an attachment and I hope it is viewable, yes?

This attachment shows the "trusted network" before Day 3. Notice anything?
Luddite, Kyan, Roland and myself are the top teir of the network. On Day 1 I came up with a plan. In case its not obvious by now, I'm the second mason. I told Luddite we should just pick someone at random and basically hinge the game on whether we picked a villager or Wolf. I said there's a 60% chance we pick an innocent. We pick some one and just put complete trust in them. He said it was crazy. I said crazy like a fox. Luddite said he trusted Roland, I said cool, lets trust Roland. I approached him and just laid out that we were the masons. Straight up baby. And with that we went to work.

We lynched Sandover. And MJW pulled his crazy lie trap thing and told Kyan (who he thought was a wolf) that luddite (who he thought was a villager) was a mason. Kyan scried Luddite and approached him. Thus the Owl was put into contact.

Now during Day 2 it was decided that Roland would be the Frontman. He would try to contact people on a one by one basis and convince them to vote for the person our bloc chooses. Pretty much my idea. I wanted someone other than the masons contacting and making things happen. Meiz was my choice, Serdoa was Roland's choice. I cast my vote early. AS a group we'd sort of decided that serdoa was the main target but we'd wait until Day 2 and use Meiz as fishing. That changed though when ore people started piling on. SO we stuck with Meiz.

Now on Day 3 we all know what happened. Kyan scried Selrahc and contacted sunrise. From there Selrahc was an easy lynch.

Next we know what happened on Day 4. Uber got lynched, but it was close. I was mislead about who the 2nd seer claim was by Roland so I voted for Sareln, but when he told me I watch to the very end. I was determined to vote for Uberfish if anyone switched. I wasn't going to let him go free. Now Day 5 I'm pretty sure Serdoa is a Wolf, I'm MORE sure about scooter. Scooter is much more likely to be a wolf than serdoa IMO. Somehow though it got flubbed up? Well it started with Roland there. He sent me a PM saying he didn't expect Kyan to switch. That he was trying to tie it up so that we could see who Selrahc would pick to kill. REALLY?

Now at the beginning I've said Roland was trusted. Bet the game on him you might say. And FYI we only approached him after his first post accusing Sandover.

SO why this? Well I guess its time to lynch Roland.

After the Sandover lynch I was a little skeptical of Roland's reasoning behind his switch and it put me on edge. I was determined to watch and make sure.

Now the Meiz vote as I said I expected us to switch over to Serdoa. At least that was my impression from our discussions. Now I didn't make much of it at the time but after the Meiz voting I didn't think much of it. I knew I had pushed Meiz so I assumed I had just convinced everyone. After we lynched Meiz I had a quick chat with Roland. It was a curious chat. I came away feeling either he was a wolf who wasn't sure what to say or that he genuinely felt so terrible he could barely type to me. It just made me truly suspicious and it was the first time I started running conspiracy theories.

The Selrahc lynch was crazy. Kyan went off on a hunch that truly paid off. Then they hatched a crazy plan while I was asleep. I cam on and told Roland he had to tell the truth or I would tell everyone I was the mason and I would tell the truth. I was pretty upset with him. Anyway that turned out as expected.

Uberfish. Roland came to me with the second seer claim told me it came from scooter. I was willing to believe that. But then he said the seer claimed to have scried Selrach and sareln both as WW and then MJW. MJW? Why MJW? Because he died that night and the only other person they could use as a dead person would be luddite who was a mason meaning the seer would have approached him. Scrying MJW was stupid to put it mildly. The reason they didn't say anyone else was so that they didn't give away any other information and there was no other way to prove the seer was true except by lynching Sareln. So I was suspicious I played along. But I stayed up till 5 in the morning to find out the truth and make sure if I had to that I could switch the vote. Was Roland stupid enough to believe that this second seer would actually waste a scry on MJW?

That for me is the most damning evidence of all in the way he handled the Uberfish lynching. Not that he was fooled but that he was fooled by the flimsiest of evidence.

Now I went back to the Meiz Voting thinking that a wolf HAD to have take the first votes and on him and carried the motion through. You know who the first voters were? Myself, Sunrise, MJW and Roland. MJW and Sunrise are cleared for sure. But then Roland who had professed doubt to me that Meiz was a wolf, and said he'd go ahead switch the vote to Serdoa (the old bait and switch on the wolves from day 1 to 2) instead placed more pressure on Meiz. As I said I was blinded to Meiz so I didn't think anything of abandoning our "Gather info on Day 1 phase and Kill someone else on Day 2 phase". I now realize that Roland was instead egging the Meiz train on and I was pleased to let him.

Now day 3 was out of his control as much as he messed with it. Day 4 I've gone over.

Let look at Day 5. We lynch Ug. I told Roland I believed him to be a villager. I told Roland we should just lynch Serdoa even though I belived more strongly about Scooter. He wanted to change the train to Scooter but I saw that we would not be able to organize everyone to switch to scooter in time and would probably split the villagers on serdoa and scooter. lynching UG which I did not want to do. Instead Roland, (probably told Gaspar his "plan" to get Selrahc to choose who to die (which makes no sense because he'll just choose the one who is an innocent.)) and got Gaspar to switch vote. I think Gaspar is innocent, I just think he's been played along with the rest.

I went into this vote waiting to see what Roland did. If he was a villager I expected him to vote Serdoa, if he was a wolf I expected him to pull some crazy, backed by excuses BS. He pulled the BS. In fact, beyond Day 1 where he helped set us on the Sandover track (and he PMed both luddite and I in an attempt to get us to switch our votes BTW but we had already gone to sleep, (Luddite's in the same Timezone as me so during the switching hours of the first day we were asleep)). And that is something I just remembered while writing this. What if he had gotten us to switch off sandover? WOW can you believe it?

So lets recap.
Check the picture I attached:

Roland was the sole connection pulling the "villager" strings. How much do you wan to bet they actually were mostly villagers, because as a wolf he knew them. In this way he could control their votes and the votes of the wolves!

Sandover - gained cred for being the first to point him out but tried to stop him from being lynched (almost succeeded in discrediting masons as well if we had switched).
Meiz - Said he wanted to lynch Serdoa and gather information on Day one of Day 2, but instead "kept up the pressure" on Meiz. Acted curious after the lynching.
Day 3 - crazy Lie plan
Day 4 - Unbelievable second seer claim attempt to save a wolf
Day 5 - Manipulated the final vote towards UG and a villager.

He's also been trying to get me to think Serdoa is a Villager.

In every lynching that did NOT involve a seer or Owl scry reveal, Roland has voted for an innocent been intrinsic in arranging the lynching. He has played the game extremely well as a wolf, and terrible if he is in fact a villager.

I say we lynch Roland unequivocally and then move on to Scooter followed by Serdoa. Those are your final three wolves.

I am writing this tonight because I'm not sure if they will kill me or they will kill Kyan. If I hadn't written this, Roland might have had me killed if he suspected that I suspected him.

I've been behind Roland this whole game. Literally and figuratively, but really I've only trusted him through Day 2. Our conversation after the Meiz lynch kept him close to the wolves IMO. But I continued to publicly support him as long as we were lynching wolves, ie Selrahc and Uber (discovered by scries). Roland had no choice there. So I was free to continue not outing him. I probably should have told Kyan of my suspicions so that he didn't switch, but I believed he would stick to Serdoa.

Anyway, two can play the hide the truth. Two can stand behind and pull the strings. Two can be there to put the knife in place.

If you are truly a villager Roland, you've become a liability, but I doubt that is the case. Congrats so far, but the time is now. I've gathered the evidence I've watched you close and at this point I cannot rish you poisoning more lynches.

Read what I've written carefully people. I will answer any questions.

[Lewwyn]

Oh and BTW, still love you Roland.

[Rowain]

Anyway, if you are unsure what I am, ask Rowain. I asked him to vote for either me or Ug, just for one of us instead of Roland,

I can confirm that Serdoa sent me an PM asking to place my vote on either him or Ug. Sadly I wasn't online till 1 hour after the lynching luckily it didn't matter at all as Kyan switched.

[Serdoa]

Wow, now thats something to think about. But I am no wolf, so I am not so sure what to think about all the other stuff. Though I understand fully why you think I am one (unfortunately :/ ) so I will examine closely. Thank you at least for that explanation. I get slowly an understanding why some people have invested so much time out of this thread for this game.

[Serdoa]

My last post is related to Lewwyns of course. But I'm at work so I had to do something else between starting to write my post and sending it.

[scooter]

Wow, that was a very enlightening post. The biggest reason I was always skeptical of the trusted network was because of two reasons:

1. It got so big so fast. Especially with finding out later that sunrise never even got a scry in on night 1, I couldn't understand how it could be so big so quickly. It seemed awfully suspicious to me, so you guys rolling the dice on trusting Roland clears a lot of things up. It makes much more sense to me how it got so big.

2. Roland was the "front man" but so many things about him made no sense - his votes, his numerous lying, etc.

Knowing the back story helps a lot and makes those two points make much more sense, as I was always in the dark so these two things always bothered me. I have no idea what to think about Roland, as he strikes me as an innocent who has made some decisions, but this post makes me rethink it a little. I'll withhold judgment until the daytime and until Roland has had a chance to defend himself. I still feel like it's a bit odd for a wolf to be so blatantly obvious with such a poor voting record, but I'll try to stay open to both possibilities until we hear from Roland. I suggest we all do the same.

Thanks for 90% of the post Lewwyn - as for the 10% where you said you still highly suspect me, well I'm used to it by now . Now to take it all in and wrap my head around this...

[Lewwyn]

Wow, that was a very enlightening post. The biggest reason I was always skeptical of the trusted network was because of two reasons:

1. It got so big so fast. Especially with finding out later that sunrise never even got a scry in on night 1, I couldn't understand how it could be so big so quickly. It seemed awfully suspicious to me, so you guys rolling the dice on trusting Roland clears a lot of things up. It makes much more sense to me how it got so big.

2. Roland was the "front man" but so many things about him made no sense - his votes, his numerous lying, etc.

Knowing the back story helps a lot and makes those two points make much more sense, as I was always in the dark so these two things always bothered me. I have no idea what to think about Roland, as he strikes me as an innocent who has made some decisions, but this post makes me rethink it a little. I'll withhold judgment until the daytime and until Roland has had a chance to defend himself. I still feel like it's a bit odd for a wolf to be so blatantly obvious with such a poor voting record, but I'll try to stay open to both possibilities until we hear from Roland. I suggest we all do the same.

Thanks for 90% of the post Lewwyn - as for the 10% where you said you still highly suspect me, well I'm used to it by now . Now to take it all in and wrap my head around this...

Yeah I'm good with open minds. Roland went to bed before I posted this so I'm eager to see what he has to say as well.

[Roland]

I'll cast my vote to lynch myself. Nothing to say I can't do that, yes?

You can think what you like about me Lewwyn - no hard feelings. I had zero idea Kyan was going to switch last-minute - I had had no contact with him at all yesterday. Unfortunately, I missed coming back to see that. Had I, I honestly have to wonder if I would have changed my vote - I don't know, because I didn't get the opportunity. Doesn't matter now.

Oh, and for the last time I never said scooter made the claim of Seer. The only person I told was Kyan - who, if he'd bother to have told me his plan, I would have gone along with it - and that was it. I think all of 3 people even knew about the claim at all, and frankly I was a little ticked (still am) at Kyan for using me, instead of just explaining what he wanted to do - I'm not nearly as thick-headed and stubborn as you are, Lewwyn (remember me trying to talk you and Luddite out of Meiz? Oh, right. That went SO well). 'Course, now you think I'm a 'Wolf. Might as well ask Kyan what he thinks, since he's the one who turned his back on his own vote for Serdoa. Maybe he'll join you, too.

You know what, it doesn't even matter. I'm not going to argue my own defense. No one listens to anything I say, everyone puts words in my mouth or simply twists my intentions. It's been the same sad song this entire game, and I'm quite tired of dealing with it. Scooter PMed me a few times these last few days to ask me why I wasn't even participating anymore. The simply fact is that I'm done. I've had enough. I've taken too many gambles (some of my own accord, some for the sake of others - including the Network), and had too many things blow up in my face. I've had to fight too hard to explain my every single action, and even then it does no good because no one wants to listen - they just get something in their head and stick with it, no matter the evidence to the contrary. So, I'm done.

You folks all want to throw another day away lynching a Villager, fine. Be my guest. I'll go along with it, even - help speed it up. Let's just give the 'Wolves all the time in the world to win this game - back-to-back Villager kills, two days in a row. At this point, who even cares anymore? Kyan's dead this Night, I'm dead the next Day, Lewwyn you'll probably follow the next Night, and beyond that I have no idea. Then it will be, what, 3 'Wolves versus 6 Villagers? Among those all of your and my top suspects for 'Wolves, Lewwyn - Kyan's, as well, I'm sure.

I backed you in every endeavor you ever wanted, Lewwyn. I did my best to make a case against Meiz - your own personal vendetta, along with Luddite. I fessed up the truth about Kyan's scheme against Selrahc - and held ground when he claimed to be the other Mason, when I had no prior knowledge he was going to do that. Then I pulled back on this one, try to think for myself for once, and because Kyan switches last minute and I wasn't aware of his action nor his intent, I'm the bad guy. Whatever you want to believe Lewwyn - I don't give one fuck anymore.

Lynch me tomorrow. I want nothing more to do with this. Good luck to you all.

[Roland]

1) Luddite brought Kyan in. I had virtually no contact with him and, as I recall, you and Luddite said he didn't trust me as of Day 2, so I stayed out of that one.
2) Sunrise was our Devil suspect until Kyan's scry on Selrahc. I had no contact with Sunrise, either - so, again, not my doing.
3) No one else was ever brought in, by me or, to my knowledge, anyone else. I was taking my time trying to build trust and feel people out, so I never got the chance to bring anyone else in. I kept everyone at a distance for the express purpose of protecting any intrusion by 'Wolves.
4) I tried to talk you and Luddite out of Meiz on Day 2, but you both shot me down. Towards the end you'll note I tried AGAIN to talk you out, last-minute - no avail. "Shut up and stay on Meiz" was what I was told, so I did so - despite Gaspar's thoughts that we had made a mistake.
5) Kyan was the one who came up with the Selrahc plan that upset you so much - my only hand in it was saying "Yes" and crafting the actual post, and even Kyan will tell you he gave me the basis for what I was going to say.
6) Kyan switched off Ug last-minute, without ANY contact with me since the prior day. If anyone lynched Ug, it was Kyan - but I'm the liability.

I take responsibility for my actions, always. I'll be damned if I'm going to suffer under someone else's. I'm not changing my vote for tomorrow - I'm lynching myself. You all can be saved or damned on your own - I'm done helping.