PBEM 5H Vampires vs Ogres, Vampire spoiler thread

[Thoth]

In BtS, you'd see some real Spiritual abuse similar to running Cristo Redentor if on Quick you could revolt every 3t instead of every 5t. And they never bothered re-coding it for FFH.

Also, in the base game, it's a 6t GA without MoM so that you can revolt twice in a single GA. (Do you have a source of extending the Golden Age, or is the GA always longer in FFH?).

FFH GA's are 50% longer than in BTS (12 turns on Normal speed, 9 on Quick)

FFH quick speed nerfs both GAs and Spiritual as you can still only change civics every 10 turns (and 10 quick turns != 10 normal turns). I'm in full agreement with Irgy that the minimum civic swap time should scale with game speed.

[Cyneheard]

FFH GA's are 50% longer than in BTS (12 turns on Normal speed, 9 on Quick)

FFH quick speed nerfs both GAs and Spiritual as you can still only change civics every 10 turns (and 10 quick turns != 10 normal turns). I'm in full agreement with Irgy that the minimum civic swap time should scale with game speed.

I was saying less about what I thought it should be (I hear you), and more about why it is the way it is: Modders only want to deal with so many things when making a full mod.

[Thoth]

I was saying less about what I thought it should be (I hear you), and more about why it is the way it is: Modders only want to deal with so many things when making a full mod.

Understood. Can't really complain all that much given how much FFH II costs.

[Irgy]

Hyborem has entered the game. I chose not to switch.


I've yet to hear from him at all though. No idea where he is. Surprised Bob hasn't gone and wiped him out yet. Glad he's not next to me anyway as I have no defence against Hell Terrain. The point of all this though is to build the Infernal Grimoire. Both it and Fanaticism will be done in 5 turns from now (7 all up), allowing me to grab Malevolent Designs. At that point I will have two heroes (Losha Velis and Mardero) and eight top-tier national units (4 Eidolons and 4 Beasts of Agares) to build. Between all of those Bob should be in a world of trouble.

I've also started on the Tower of Necromancy, although it will take a good 15 or so turns to build.

Bob sent in a stack of 20 chariots supported by 6 of his best wolf riders. Apparently he wanted to send 60, but couldn't afford the upkeep. He presumably didn't want to delete his 20 axemen to pay for them

I got my defenders ready, but left them one tile behind the city as I didn't want him smacking down my vampires. I filled the city with spectres, mostly just to force him to commit a good number of the chariots if he wanted to take the city. I sent out some Moroi to counter-attack at better odds than they'd get sitting and waiting, and pulled out the catapults to sit with the main stack behind the city. I whipped a vampire there and passed the turn.

I was feeling a bit depressed about the fact that Bob could build 20 chariots for basically peanuts, and could then use them to trash a city faster than I can organise a proper defence. The problem was basically that I was forked, I had a city north and a city south and couldn't put my units anywhere that could cover all of his potential launch points (which is anywhere within 3 tiles of the city). So although I could wipe out his stack afterwards, and I could get units in place to defend in time, I don't have any units that could actually successfully defend the city from attack. I could wipe out a stack in a counter-attack, but not actually defend a city.

I loaded up the next turn to a pleasant surprise:


The lone, whipped vampire, staring down a massive stack of clan cavalry. He actually never even fought a single battle. The "fear factor", as Bob called it, won the day and the city held. Despite never actually winning a single battle, the spectres were just too scary for those goblins. Easily managed to wipe out the whole stack in retaliation for no losses and a stack of unit experience. The four chariots he'd sent a different way (since they were lagging behind) actually caused a lot more damage, effectively taking out 2 vampires and 2 moroi before I finished cleaning them up.

So on the whole, things are looking good.

[DaveV]

The "fear factor", as Bob called it, won the day and the city held. Despite never actually winning a single battle, the spectres were just too scary for those goblins.

An underrated bonus to spectre spam. I've had plenty of problems attacking barbarian spectres; even with highly favorable odds and multiple promotions, units will still chicken out.

So on the whole, things are looking good.

To say the least . Are you running Sacrifice the Weak? Can you post screenshots of some of your top cities?

[Irgy]

Are you running Sacrifice the Weak?

No, and I won't. Frankly, there's no point. For the most part I have so much food I don't really know what to do with it. Happiness is the real limit, which is why I prioritised Mathematics so highly. I'm going to run Consumption instead once I have the tech, as that gives me twice the gold bonus, happiness from my markets and no gpp penalty.

Can you post screenshots of some of your top cities?

Sure, will take some next turn.

[Irgy]

So, it worked. Fanaticism is in, the Infernal Grimoire complete, and Malevolent Designs bulbed.




Eidolons, not so much. They require Iron, which will take a while to get - unless I take it from Bob's mines, but if that's the case I've won anyway. Still, I can now build Losha Velis, Mardero, and four Beasts of Agares. That should be enough meat to support a successful assault.

Bob has sent another halfhearted stack of chariots towards Dirage again, but I didn't have much trouble diverting my vampires to fill it with spectres. Bob had to build an extra surprise-road to get them there as quickly as he did, and it has cost him 2 workers as a result. I had a moroi with burning blood still active that took out both them and his trailing lizardman. Unlikely to survive now, though he'll put up a fight anyway.

An overview of my larger cities, as requested. A couple of turns out of date now, my apologies for that.

Prespur
The capital, and primary commerce city. Has the brewery for +30% commerce, and an Academy, giving in total nearly half my total beakers. It has so much food it's overflowing, but population is still down a little from whipping a settler and from Vampire feasting. It's currently building Mardero - I put a hero here instead of a Beast because the lost commerce from the turn of city disorder hurts a lot.

Nubia
My second city, in its nestled-against-the-edge-of-the-map location. I've built the Heroic Epic here - although it has less production than some other places, it was already set up, had a training yard for Moroi, and was going to be building mostly military already. Whereas other better production sites have been busy with wonders and the like. It's been pumping out Moroi and Vampires, while eternally procrastinating granary and smokehouse - in fact I may never end up bothering with them. I'm currently snapping up Archery so as to build lumbermills in the plains-forest tiles here. Currently building Losha Velis here to get her out as quickly as possible.

Adonidas
The AV founding city. This was my catapult pump for a while, but the catapults were always a bit of a stop-gap. They scared off Bob's first assault stack, so I've got my use out of them at least anyway. It was then churning out Ritualists for a while instead, and as you can see it was the site I chose for the Grimoire. I whipped the Grimoire for about 8 population the following turn. It's now building a Beast, and will be the first city to actually complete one (2 turns to the others' 3).

Acacia
Something of a wonder city, with the Great Library and Bone Palace. Building a beast at the moment.

Morr'ta'nar
National Epic city because of the amount of food available, and also where the Council of Esus was founded. The Bazaar of Mammon was eventually whipped for 9 (!) population. Now growing to work specialists again

San'ta'ron
Originally just a marble filler city, this is the only place I've build a mage guild. Currently toiling away at the Tower of Necromancy, which will bring my spectres up to base strength 6, up from 4 currently (and 3 originally). I've only built a handful of adepts all up.

[Irgy]

Does anyone know a way to declare war on the barbarians? The only way we know is to attack an animal, and you get a popup, but Bob seems to think he's missed the boat on that one - it only comes once and he's declined it already. Is there any other way?

Asking on behalf of Bob of course.

[DaveV]

I think he needs to attack a barb in unowned territory. I know I always get a pop up when I try to move on top of another civ's unit in the wild.

There's also the 1.5x score condition, of course, but that would mean the game is pretty much over anyway.

[Amelia]

Try right clicking on the barb to see? I remember there was some funny thing you could do.