Werewolf 2 Lurker Thread: Spoilers!

[Bobchillingworth]

Huh. But I got the impression that the possessed didn't start with contact with the wolves, either. So, like, what's the point of him, besides giving one particular villager a more difficult win condition?

[fire&ice]

Well F&I said earlier that the possessed counts as a villager for determining victory condition. So basically the possessed is a villager that votes like a wolf - much like the other villagers in other words.

correct, I was not counting him because he was not told who the wolves are so there is a chance he does not know who the wolves are. Although by this point I will be disapointed if the possesed person does not.

Edit - @Bob to end one of the seers ofc. Give the wolves a perfect undercover spy/assasin?

[uberfish]

I think the Ug lynch was a reasonable one. He didn't really defend himself much beyond pointing out that he had correctly accused me of being a wolf. Which is actually no evidence at all, considering that wolves had already been fairly active in accusing each other.

It'd be hilarious if the possessed ends up getting night killed by wolves. I still have no idea who it is. At this point it's difficult to tell who might be playing badly on purpose.

[T-hawk]

Roland's results are just like how I always ended up when playing Werewolf in real life. Pretty good at figuring out who's who, really terrible at selling it to get believed by anybody else. Which is the worst place to be; you're a prime target for both sides; for the werewolves as the guy who knows too much and for the villagers as the crackpot or liar whom nobody believes.

And Roland really didn't help his case when he lied in an attempt at protection, then got caught and had to backtrack really quickly. It does no good at all to be right without credibility.

[zakalwe]

I know the devil is dead and all, but what would be the result of scrying the possessed by a) the seer and b) the devil? If the answer is "villager" in both cases, I don't think the chances of the wolves and the possessed ever establishing trust are very high. It may still be amusing to have a villager who tries to play badly on purpose, but all in all it seems like it would be a somewhat lesser role. Though if the possessed stays alive until the late endgame that could potentially be pretty bad for the village.

[fire&ice]

I know the devil is dead and all, but what would be the result of scrying the possessed by a) the seer and b) the devil? If the answer is "villager" in both cases, I don't think the chances of the wolves and the possessed ever establishing trust are very high. It may still be amusing to have a villager who tries to play badly on purpose, but all in all it seems like it would be a somewhat lesser role. Though if the possessed stays alive until the late endgame that could potentially be pretty bad for the village.

a) good (villager)
b) possesed (possesed)

the devil gets the role or atleast thats how selharc seemed the explain it in the previous thread.

[Roland]

So... my terrible game notwithstanding, I have to get a few things off my chest.

Seriously, Lewwyn knows better than *anyone* that Roland is/was a villager.

Roland didn't vote for a single wolf AND revealed me to first the wolves and then the thread for no apparent reason. Haphazard has been a nightmare all game long.

Kyan, I truly am sorry about how that happened. I totally don't know what the hell I was smoking when I made that post. All I know is I was furious and somehow I completely outed you. Lewwyn caught it, and I literally smacked my forehead in real life. I was cursing like a drunken sailor after that to Lewwyn. I could not believe how utterly stupid I was for that. I'm so, so sorry about that - it was just a total screw-up on my part.

As for why Lewwyn voted me off, I don't know entirely. I knew something was coming because he hasn't talked to me in days, so I honestly wasn't all that surprised to see his post condemning me. Frankly, I suppose to some I should have put up more of a fight, but nothing I said was going to change Lewwyn's mind, all the 'Wolves were obviously going to lynch me to rid themselves of one more Villager, and the rest had no reason to defend me at all (Gaspar being the exception, and Sareln just being a damn nice guy). He left me no options for getting out of it, so I just didn't even bother.

Roland's results are just like how I always ended up when playing Werewolf in real life. Pretty good at figuring out who's who, really terrible at selling it to get believed by anybody else. Which is the worst place to be; you're a prime target for both sides; for the werewolves as the guy who knows too much and for the villagers as the crackpot or liar whom nobody believes.

And Roland really didn't help his case when he lied in an attempt at protection, then got caught and had to backtrack really quickly. It does no good at all to be right without credibility.

Yeah, there were many reasons why I couldn't sell my thoughts - part of which was following a group consensus behind the scenes. As for me lying, that was Kyan's bit - he asked me to claim to be the Seer (when I said "Shouldn't I claim to be the Owl?"), I agreed, and it just went to absolute hell afterward. I'm a terrible liar - I admit it to anyone up front. Selrahc caught me easily, and then Lewwyn was so furious about what happened he said if I didn't come clean, he would do it for me. What choice did I have there? Then Kyan claims to be Mason, and it just got all screwed up. We lynched Selrahc, but lost everything else. I think that right there spelled our doom, to be honest.

Scooter never claimed to be the seer, Roland made that up.

Alright, I've had entirely too much of this utter BULLSHIT. Lewwyn somehow got it in his head that I claimed scooter was the 2nd Seer - Kyan knew it was Uberfish, because I told him - and he never listened to me when I told him, repeatedly, in public and private that he was mistaken. I have the chat logs to prove it! Everyone is going on about all my lies, but they're ALL wrong. The ONLY thing I ever lied about was being the Seer - at Kyan's request! So get that straight. I'm sick of hearing it.

In this game there is a supposed trusted network of villagers, but their spokesperson seems to needlessly lie and generally behave irrationally. For example, in the uberfish case I think there were two logical options: vote uberfish immediately because he's likely a wolf, or wait and either get a 100% kill on uberfish or an extra seer action. I can respect either of those. Believing PM's from uberfish and claiming someone else to be a seer is just crazy.

First of all, I didn't buy Uberfish's Seer claim outright - I even told him as much. I had suspicions about Sareln ever since we lynched Selrahc, and THAT was the basis for my change. I admit I screwed up here, and I was glad to see Uberfish hung as a 'Wolf (BTW, I don't actually harbor any ill will towards him - he and I chatted briefly after he hung, and I was just throwing a jab out at him). After that I basically gave up on Sareln being anything but a Villager (thanks for trying to save me, by the way), and started to look at everything else.

There were WAY too many assumptions in this game being taken as hard fact and used against people. I know, because I suffered under most of them. Having the combination of Serdoa and scooter twisting my words around against what they actually meant, and then repeating it like a stuck record on a bullhorn made it difficult to get anything meaningful out, and I'll freely admit to 100% burnout in this game. After Kyan's stunt having me claim to be the Seer I just didn't have much left to give, and was spending more time NOT posting than actually doing what got us that first 'Wolf kill.

Frankly, I am glad to be out of it. The Village deserves to lose at this point, and for my part in helping that along I'm sorry, but this was just totally NOT a fun game, at least for me. Maybe it's my own fault for going along with so many crazy plans that backfired or went awry, but frankly I wanted to help, and I wanted to win, so I was never afraid to volunteer if it led to that.

I have no problems with the back channel aspects of the game. I do, however, have issues with poor GMing, among other things. I don't know if I'd ever try to be in a WW game again, but if I do it won't be any time soon. Too much of a time sink, and just too burned out after this failed attempt.

I'm not going to get into explaining myself for this entire game. No point, and no interest, but I wanted to clear up a few heavily pushed misconceptions. I hate it when people spread lies about me in real life, and I have zero tolerance for it here, as well. It got to the point where I couldn't speak without someone shouting me down as a liar, so I just gave up in the end.

Ug, I'm sorry for lynching you. Like Kyan, I didn't believe in Serdoa's guilt anymore, and frankly you did little to wave off suspicion. It wasn't personal, and I even said afterward I felt it was a Villager versus Villager Day, not that anyone believed me or cared what I had to say.

Also, finding out MNG is the possessed makes perfect sense. I had already started to suspect something about him a few days ago. Kyan, Gaspar, and maybe Lewwyn I think were starting down that path, as well - something just wasn't right. Oh well. It's a sure win for the 'Wolves now.

I don't know whether I should be offended or not at people's comments about my long posts. This was my first time ever playing this game - I thought the point was to discuss things? Maybe I just write too much. Anyway, sorry for buggering up this thread with a long post. :neenernee

If I could go back and do it all over again, I'd change so many things: starting with Meiz. Oh, and Luddite, you can paint me as the one who initiated against Meiz, but you know from my PMs that I had written him off after Day 1. You and Lewwyn seem to have forgotten that little aspect, and now he's using my push against Meiz - asked for by YOU two - as evidence against me. Poor, poor play on your parts, I must say. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all that we're losing this.

I put way too much into this, and with so many people willing to use me as a scapegoat (even my friends and allies!) it's a wonder I lived as long as I did. No hard feelings Luddite, but I don't appreciate you cherry-picking my words to make it seem like I was the one gunning for Meiz, especially when I can post chat logs and PMs that specifically show me writing Meiz off. Either you're trying to make me look bad, which I doubt, or you simply forgot and are buying Lewwyn's BS because you trust him more.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Glad to me done. Sorry it was so little fun for those watching - it wasn't much better playing, either, after Day 2.

[Selrahc]

It got to the point where I couldn't speak without someone shouting me down as a liar, so I just gave up in the end.

That's probably my fault. I undermined your credibility pretty massively on the day when you got me lynched, and even though I got lynched I think that it left a bad impression of you in the general view.

Although that was partly because it was a pretty pointless lie to tell. Just claiming proxy and saying I was evil would have done the job much more effectively, and I wouldn't have been able to call you out on anything.

I was being honest when I said villagers should not tell lies under almost all circumstances. Either tell the truth, or refuse to answer. Anything else just creates needless chaos.

[Roland]

That's probably my fault. I undermined your credibility pretty massively on the day when you got me lynched, and even though I got lynched I think that it left a bad impression of you in the general view.

Although that was partly because it was a pretty pointless lie to tell. Just claiming proxy and saying I was evil would have done the job much more effectively, and I wouldn't have been able to call you out on anything.

I was being honest when I said villagers should not tell lies under almost all circumstances. Either tell the truth, or refuse to answer. Anything else just creates needless chaos.

Bah, not your fault at all. I should have been smarter. I asked Kyan "Should I be claiming Owl?" I'm not sure whatever happened to that thought. All I know is I screwed up with the lie, you caught me, and that was the end of anything productive in the game. Frankly, everyone's been chirping off that I lie left and right, but none of them have any proof except what I openly admitted to. The bottom line is that the only thing I lied about was being the Seer. There were no "lies". Everyone just keeps saying the plural, and believing it because they're idiots.

It was just a frustrating game all around, even before that, but especially after that. I don't hold any grudge against you, nor do I think it was your fault. I could have done a much better job handling that whole thing, but Lewwyn was so furious with me and I was so flustered about it that I just ended up making a bad situation worse. I hung myself Selrahc.

Lewwyn is just off his rocker at this point. We were talking about scooter for some reason or another, and somehow I think it got crossed in Lewwyn's mind that it meant I was calling scooter the second Seer, but I never said that. He started babbling about scooter being the Seer the next day, and I was totally confused. When he asked me directly, I told him flat-out "No, Uberfish is the Seer," at which point he blew a gasket. I had no idea what he was talking about at the time, but now it makes much more sense. 'Course, why he can't simply confirm that in his chat logs instead of trying to call me a liar is beyond me. Oh well. Moot point now.

[Meiz]

We were talking about scooter for some reason or another, and somehow I think it got crossed in Lewwyn's mind that it meant I was calling scooter the second Seer, but I never said that. He started babbling about scooter being the Seer the next day, and I was totally confused. When he asked me directly, I told him flat-out "No, Uberfish is the Seer," at which point he blew a gasket.

Now that you mention it, this rings a bell. Sorry.

I still can't believe that you were lynched. It's almost like everyone wants this game to end. Maybe I was lucky to die on day 2?

Still, looking forward for WW3. Maybe we learn from some mistakes, eh?