Werewolf 2 Lurker Thread: Spoilers!

[Meiz]

Regarding possessed, if the villagers would identify that he exists and wanted to lynch him, that would just put the wolves closer to victory, because he counts as a villager. Really, did I get this right?

IMO this game should have been 4 known wolves, 1 known Devil and 1 hidden Possessed, who is counted as a wolf and knows who the other wolves are.

[Roland]

Now that you mention it, this rings a bell. Sorry.

I still can't believe that you were lynched. It's almost like everyone wants this game to end. Maybe I was lucky to die on day 2?

Still, looking forward for WW3. Maybe we learn from some mistakes, eh?

Frankly it was very unfortunate that you got lynched. I guarantee we had 2 Villagers on the block that day, and I tried to talk both Lewwyn and Luddite out of you during Night 1, but neither was very responsive (Lewwyn was obsessed with lynching you - I still don't know why - and Luddite I think mostly followed Lewwyn's lead). I was suspicious of you by the beginning of Night 1, but by the end I had looked over everything and basically written you off. I had to work to even try to lynch you, and then suddenly it somehow appeared that you were guilty on my 3rd read-through of your posts. Then scooter and Serdoa spent so much time outright attacking me I didn't have any time nor energy to write any further as to why I thought you were guilty - which would have made me re-read once more, and probably figure out I was right before in that you were innocent - and so you got lynched. For what it's worth, myself and I think Kyan were saying in the last hour or so that we should switch off you - that we didn't think you were guilty. Lewwyn and I believe Luddite also didn't want us to switch, and basically told us we were getting cold feet. :P So, you got lynched, and thus started our downward spiral.

Pretty much nothing from Day 2 onward went according to "plan". 'Course, now it seems that was the case for the actual game itself (i.e. forgetting the Devil, dealing with MJW, adjusting the Owl, etc.) so I guess I can't feel too bad.

Like I said, I think Lewwyn was upset with me over the Ug and Uberfish votes, and it made him question my motives. Then he started to see how things had gone wrong, without thinking about the why, and just piled it onto me. With 3 'Wolves out there, plus Lewwyn's vote, it wasn't going to take many Villagers to lynch me. Besides, he left me no way out with his post - essentially not much different than how Selrahc died. There was no way to cop a defense, because it was accounted for and cut off ahead of time. Anything I said or did would only be used to make me look guilty, and besides, I was so burnt out I wasn't contributing near what I used to, so it was an easy sell to get rid of me even if people thought I was innocent.

I don't think I'll be joining in another WW game for quite awhile, but I suppose it would depend on the setup and how it was run. I'm still trying not to let this one leave a bad taste in my mouth, and it's proving challenging. Oh well. First time can't always be the best.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Rowain, Scooter, Gasper and M. Nice Guy.

Serdoa has been knocked off my list because I think he is not aggersive enough to do an "admin lie trick". I think Rowain and Scooter are wolfs. MNG is on this list because of spoilers only. Gasper gets dumped in because 973 post is very odd for a villager to post. I would confront him and if he explians himself well hapazard would replace him.

[MJW (ya that one)]

The weakest play of the game has to be the Roland lych. It is just not possible for someone like him to fake being a wolf in hours in chat.

[Sareln]

I is deads. At least I pushed a plan out before I died (though the assumption of Gaspar innocence in it might be a fatal flaw).

[T-hawk]

The weakest play of the game has to be the Roland lych. It is just not possible for someone like him to fake being a wolf in hours in chat.

Agreed. I was really surprised when the voting turned against him. It felt like the village cared more about getting him to shut up rather than finding a wolf.

FWIW, I enjoyed reading along with just about everything Roland wrote and I really appreciate the spectacular level of effort he poured into the game. Roland, your game wasn't in vain.

[Sareln]

I wonder if I was wolf-snack due to the post or because I was the last active villager without a tarnished reputation? I don't regret making that night posting though, because at least now there's a semblance of a reasonable plan out there. Even if I'm perfectly right though, there's only going to be one villager left at the end of this...

[Selrahc]

I tried to talk both Lewwyn and Luddite out of you during Night 1, but neither was very responsive (Lewwyn was obsessed with lynching you - I still don't know why - and Luddite I think mostly followed Lewwyn's lead). I was suspicious of you by the beginning of Night 1, but by the end I had looked over everything and basically written you off. I had to work to even try to lynch you, and then suddenly it somehow appeared that you were guilty on my 3rd read-through of your posts.

I remember you being pretty adamant that Serdoa, Scooter and Meiz were wolves in that chat you had with me right before the vote... To the point where you were mentally patting yourself on the back on having almost won the game by day 2.

Roland: We're waiting for Scooter to switch to Gaspar, forcing your vote to be the tie-breaker that lynches Gaspar.
Selrahc: You think he'll do that?
Roland: Why not?
Yes, it's completely transparent, but if it saves a 'Wolf, why wouldn't he?
They're desperate.
It shows.
...
Roland: Re: Meiz, Serdoa, Scooter.
If I'm wrong, I'll lynch myself. :P
Selrahc: Heh. Okay.
Just remember, even the best theories are prone to failure. Especially if all you've got to go on is day 1!

Maybe that was all a ruse, but I definitely didn't think you were at all reluctant to vote Meiz.

[Roland]

I remember you being pretty adamant that Serdoa, Scooter and Meiz were wolves in that chat you had with me right before the vote... To the point where you were mentally patting yourself on the back on having almost won the game by day 2.

Maybe that was all a ruse, but I definitely didn't think you were at all reluctant to vote Meiz.

Yeah, I had a complete bell curve swing between the end of Day 1 and the end of Day 2. I won't say it was a ruse, so much as resignation, and not wanting to let my misgivings show through to a complete stranger. End of Day 1, I was looking at Meiz. By the morning, though, or sometime midday (halfway through Night 1) I had come around to thinking otherwise.

1) Regarding Meiz, I don't think he's a 'Wolf. I've reread each one of his posts, and I don't believe there's enough evidence at this point to convict him. He just... plays it TOO safe to be a 'Wolf. He strikes me as very much a newbie Villager who doesn't want to make the wrong choice, through and through. I know you've crossed swords with him once or twice, but I don't think that's nearly enough to go on: remember, no one else knows who you are! Don't let emotion cloud judgment.

In an interesting twist, Meiz contacted me via PM today. He's afraid I'll die in the night (fairly certain of it, actually), and wanted to make sure I saw the discussion going on about talking versus keeping silent during the night. He's inclined to believe it best to keep our mouths shut during the night, but he is very much interested in hearing my thoughts before the night is out. Extremely clever (and fairly bold) 'Wolf ploy? Or genuine Villager interest? Can't say at this point, but it hasn't swayed my thoughts on him - only put a cautionary flag on him, to go along with the rest of my thoughts.

I disagree. For me, Meiz is still suspect number 1 (or perhaps tied with Serdoa). Did you read the .doc file I sent you? Meiz really posted a lot near the end. And it seemed like it wasn't just him being worried about maybe killing the baner- he seemed really interested in defending sandover and painting sareln as guilty. He voted for sareln right after saying that he trusted your reasoning, and BEFORE sandover claimed to be the baner.

me: Ah well. Nothing incriminating on its own.
Besides, I'm going to counter Lewwyn's arguments in public.
Lewwyn: orly
Luddite: lol ok
Lewwyn: NO
MEIZ MUST DIE
me: LOL.
10:32 PM Your blind zeal to lynch Meiz is... disturbing, to say the least.
Besides, I want to put more pressure on Sunrise.
Lewwyn: I posted reeasons....
sulk
Luddite: i'm with lewwyn on this one... i still think meiz is guilty as hell
me: I love you man. :D
Lewwyn:
me: Bah.
Alright, I'll think it over.

After that, when Day 2 started there was already a vote on Meiz, and the decision was made to go after him despite my misgivings, so I did my best to play along. As I said, somehow during that day I re-convinced myself of his guilt (still not sure what I was thinking when I did that), but by the last hour there was some rumblings about backing out.

me: Meiz and Scooter are convincing, I'll give them that. What if we are wrong?
Lewwyn: then we deal
me: Then I drop out as frontman. :P
3:46 PM Luddite: haha
we'll elect a new one
Kyan: NO!
me: I think I'm gonna go eat something and just come back when it's over.
Kyan: i vote people with bad fingers are exlcuded from frontman duty
me: Nothing I can do now anyway.
Kyan: go for it
Luddite: ok
Kyan: Meiz is dead
its whether he's a wolf or not now
go eat before you vote switch
3:47 PM me: :D
Kyan: guys...
actually
wanna have some fun?
Lewwyn: noooooo
no vote switching

3:52 PM Kyan: yeah
im still doubtful on meiz lol
after that post, moreso
me: Likewise.
Lewwyn: I know
Luddite: yeah, well, it makes perfect sense as a last ditch effort to get rowain or uberfish back
Lewwyn: its the OPPOSITE of Sandover
3:53 PM everyone is watching
everyone feels the same thing
Luddite: i wish he'd claim baner lol
me: I'm not going to be surprised if Meiz is a Villager.
Lewwyn: noone wants to lynch a villager
psh
Luddite: cmon have some confidence
Lewwyn: yeah
honestly
if he's a villager you're a WW
3:54 PM Kyan: roland is a WW!?!?
shiiit

So, yeah. Last 15 minutes, basically. I knew Kyan and I had our doubts a bit further back, and they only increased as things got closer to the wire. It looks like we all had our doubts near the end, but some of us were more adamant than others about staying on Meiz. I did walk away for a bit, and came back when it was over. I knew I wanted to switch, but we pledged our votes as a group, and I wasn't going to back out on them - especially since everyone already was eying me for switching onto MJW last-minute on Day 1.

Oh well. We made a bad call, and we stuck with it to the end. Nothing much more to say about it. I just felt like illuminating some of the behind-the-scenes talk about the Meiz vote, since there was SO much criticism (and rightly so). I think basically it boiled down to the group wanted Meiz, I couldn't talk them out of it, so instead I talked myself into it, and only realized my error when it was too late to change. We all had our doubts at the end, but no one did anything about it.

As I said, though, I still think we had two Villagers on the block, so unless you know something I don't we had no other viable choice at the end to switch to. I was wishing we had started Day 2 off with Serdoa, and then go for scooter on Day 3, but things didn't pan out that way. 'Course, if Serdoa is a Villager than I suppose it wouldn't have been much different than Meiz, except it may have led us to suspect scooter less (which would be a mistake, IMHO). Ah well. No sense analyzing that any further.

[luddite]

Roland I wish you wouldn't try to act as though you were totally blameless in the Meiz vote, as though you tried hard to save him but mean ol' Lewynn and me just wouldn't let you. You were the first to make a case a case against him- I didn't think he was a wolf at first, but after talking to you and Lewynn, and then thinking about it for a while, I became convinced. Then I stuck with the plan, and voted to lynch him.

That last chat you posted was from RIGHT before the vote was about to take place. Do you expect us to suddenly change the vote at the last minute? After you spent hours lobbying every single villager to vote for Meiz? It doesn't work like that. Once you've committed to a plan, you have to stick with it, even if you're not sure it's going to work. Besides, the only alternative was Gaspar, who I still think was innocent.

And I mean, you did that on every single vote. You panicked and shifted away from sandover at the last minute. You shifted away from selrahc at the last minute, before changing your mind again and voting for him. You shifted away from uberfish to vote sareln, simply because uberfish pmd you and said he was a seer? You shifted away from Serdoa to vote Ug, and you had listed Serdoa as your number 1 suspect not too long before. Then you decided to vote for yourself, rather than scooter, another suspected wolf. When you expressed some last minute doubts about Meiz, I figured you were just being nervous.

So yeah, sorry I was wrong about Meiz, but don't try to act completely blameless just because you said you had doubts right before the lynch. Sometimes you have to get past self-doubt and commit to a course of action. Maybe a last-minute change would have been better in that particular instance, but in general it's a terrible idea.