When I say metagaming I mean chosing who to lych based off of ww2. It can also refers to tricks to make werewolfs give you information by refering to out of game things. It is a very flexable word. My vote is on F&I for saying that I was a villager and still wanting to kill me. I think no-one stands out that much after Lewwyn explained it to me.
The threat of reavling a power-role is not enough to not put pressure on people. The baner will never come out with the voider still alive. He would rather lie. The only other uber-power role is the seer. There is only a 1/22 chance of that happening. The seer will try and blend in of course so it will be even lower then that.
Below is an MJW chesse meta-game rant thing. It talks about why chesse meta-gaming is not cheating. It may be unethical.
It is not possible to get information that I am not supposed to get without breaking the rules unless the werewolfs make a mistake. It is the werewolfs fault for giving me that information. That is why Sarlen told the wolfs to use e-mail and did not tell the villagers not to camp a profile.
The trend of "blaming the victim" is an all serious games and Sarlen is a serious mod unlike F&I. For example in a junior FIDE chess event a player made an illegal move on purpose. This was done to force a judge to be called over and give him extra time to think while that was happening. (He did not tell anyone this but it was very clear. However, the burden of proof is too high for a judge to do anything.) However, the victim did not notice it was an illegal move and just resigned. Someone pointed-out it was an illegal move and the game went on until the next time-control. After that was reached the postion was a dead draw and the players with lots of time had to agree to a draw. But the judge was told about the illegal move and the fact about someone resigned. The person who made the illegal move was not forfieted for doing that; (if it was a Magic the Gathering event he would be ). The judge had to rule the person who resigned lost the game.
Hacking the fourm would be the same as reading the spoiler thread. It is clear it is against the rules.
Finally caught up on this thread, which is my first WW/Mafia game of any kind. I didn't really have time to follow WW1 or WW2 either, so I definitely had some of the references to the earlier games go over my head.
I am Gold the Bricklayer. In honor of March Madness, I am the worst shooter on any team in the tournament. My coach cringes every time I hurl the ball towards the basket. My free throws have been described as a "hail mary," but prayer doesn't help either. My teammates call me "FSU" because my field goals go wide right or wide left every time. Gold is my name, and bricklaying is my game.
I am still trying to process the shocking 100 posts that have gone up today already and wondering what I have gotten myself into.
On that note, I am going to vote for Sandover because he destroyed Loon Lake in PBEM3 and I am still bitter about it.
Not really. I was a replacement.
As for mayor, I don't have any brilliant thoughts, but many of you seem to respect novice and his play in WW1, so that is good enough for me.
I spent the morning cleaning up the shop, sweeping the broken bottles and bird sculptures into the bin to remelt later, and heating up the furnace - life can't just stop while we catch some wolves!
I came out just in time to hear this interesting tidbit:
Bobchillingworth Wrote:While I understand your reasoning here, I worry about the possible consequences of putting pressure on too many people for the sake of seeing how they react under duress. My main concern is that we could end up accidentally causing a power role villager to reveal themselves in a bid to escape the noose. If MJW is to be believed, he has already revealed his own role, and this with only 6 votes on him. Not everyone is as panicky as MJW, but I think it's a risky strategy regardless. Plus it's not like a wolf will break down and confess if votes start going their way, especially with potentially five wolf votes to balance out any "heat" applied to them. It makes more sense to me to employ your tactic when we have voting records and other data to actually press people on & force them to justify.
Quite simply, I disagree - the wolves' main advantage here is information; if we could get information on everyone today, then we'd have 5 easy lynch votes and wrap it up in a week. Putting pressure on people is the only way to get that information, short of waiting for the seer to figure out that he's not a fool and decide to post publicly, then somehow convince us he's telling the truth. We might as well hunt wolves by speech while we wait.
It's true that we're unlikely to catch a wolf today - but we can force them to react in public, on the record, and give us information that we can use later.
I'm going to take Irgy's advice and vote for fire&ice. Since Irgy seems to be making sense, I'll suggest him as our new mayor. Hopefully we get enough information from this to let me switch to someone else before the deadline (unless that info is that f&i really is a wolf, of course).
Anyhow, the furnace ought to be hot now, so I'll go blow a couple bottles to calm my nerves and check back later.
Since people want to know how I would react to people puting my name down.
Fire&Ice
Its matters not if I die for surly somthing would come from my grave. Villagers are numerous we can afford to trade one villager for a werewolf (or two)
Irgy and Mardoc I want to see how you react to this.
fire&ice' Wrote:Since people want to know how I would react to people puting my name down.
Fire&Ice
Its matters not if I die for surly somthing would come from my grave. Villagers are numerous we can afford to trade one villager for a werewolf (or two)
Irgy and Mardoc I want to see how you react to this.
I'm confused, honestly. Surely you know that you're innocent, which is more than the rest of us do? I at least believe I have a 5/22 chance of getting a wolf by voting you.
But really, I'm not looking for your reaction so much as the reaction of the rest of the village to having a second viable lynch target. Or at least to provoke someone into explaining what's wrong with my logic
Mardoc Wrote:But really, I'm not looking for your reaction so much as the reaction of the rest of the village to having a second viable lynch target. Or at least to provoke someone into explaining what's wrong with my logic
First day votes tend to look like this:
It gets interesting when that pattern breaks. i would not read anything in fire&ice's self-vote, except perhaps that he is uninterested in being a viable lynch target. While I agree with Irgy about having a pair of lab rats for voting pattern research, there is no need for fire&ice and MJW (ya that one) to be the two locked-in sacrificial lambs this early in the day.
Band-wagoning onto fire&ice is low risk and therefore suspicious to me. I'm going to change my vote from [strike]Zakalwe[/strike] to Irgy.
I'll check this thread when I get up in the morning. Here is a list of people who may be wolfs.
Bob. His post, saying that the threat of ferreting out a power-role, is worth giving up talking about things. Villager bob would not say it because it is extermely strange , as other posters have agrued, and bob is better then that. I think wolf bob would say it to hurt the village.
Lewwyn. I think he is being a tad too aggersive if living is his goal in this game. But if he is a wolf he can not get night-killed so he can unleash his feelings. I think confusing a throw-away post by Sarlen with the big OP is very strange. It is hard to explain. Much simpler is that Lewwyn confused his offical PM with an orginal post.
Bob and Lewwyn feel like they are attacking me because Fire&Ice is a werewolf. They want to start a bandwagon against be to save F&I the first day.
F&I has never said someone is a werewolf or he is not a werewolf. It is very natural to say thoses things if you are a villager because you do not know the roles. It is very unatural to say those things if you are a werewolf because you already know what the roles are and you do not like to lie. F&I does not post much ether or defend himself. All he did was a self-vote. I don't think a villager F&I would self-vote. He would get angry and try to defend himself. The only person who self-voted who was on team good was Roland. And Roland, unlike F&I, is very emotional. The peices do not fit if F&I is a villager--this would not be his style. He also refered to me as a villager and wanted to lych me anyway. It is extreme to lych a villager for being bad so a villager F&I would try much harder to jusfiy it.
I'll keep my vote on F&I because I think no-one else on my list will be lyched today. I think no-one is a clear mayor candiate yet so there is no reason to change my vote.
Spoiler for stuff that has no relevance to the game, but kind of belongs in this thread nonetheless. This is a debate with MJW, broadly about the issue of metagaming and cheating.
MJW (ya that one) Wrote:When I say metagaming I mean chosing who to lych based off of ww2. It can also refers to tricks to make werewolfs give you information by refering to out of game things.
Well actually from how I remember it, you didn't say metagaming, I did. And I was talking about things like your suggestion of following people's profiles, not the stuff you say in the above quote. That sort of thing is generally a part of the game. Werewolf is all about people's personalities, and there's nothing wrong with judging their personalities and skills on past games or indeed on anything. That's not metagaming at all, that's playing the game the way it's intended.
For the most part anyway. I'm have no doubt that you could find a way to take "referring to out of game things" to an unethical extreme.
MJW (ya that one) Wrote:It is not possible to get information that I am not supposed to get without breaking the rules unless the werewolfs make a mistake. It is the werewolfs fault for giving me that information. That is why Sarlen told the wolfs to use e-mail and did not tell the villagers not to camp a profile.
No. What you're saying here is that they're playing the meta-game badly, therefore it's their fault. What I'm saying is they shouldn't have to play the meta-game in the first place. Your argument has no bearing on my reasons why the metagame is undesirable.
MJW (ya that one) Wrote:The trend of "blaming the victim" is an all serious games and Sarlen is a serious mod unlike F&I. For example in a junior FIDE chess event a player made an illegal move on purpose. This was done to force a judge to be called over and give him extra time to think while that was happening. (He did not tell anyone this but it was very clear. However, the burden of proof is too high for a judge to do anything.) However, the victim did not notice it was an illegal move and just resigned. Someone pointed-out it was an illegal move and the game went on until the next time-control. After that was reached the postion was a dead draw and the players with lots of time had to agree to a draw. But the judge was told about the illegal move and the fact about someone resigned. The person who made the illegal move was not forfieted for doing that; (if it was a Magic the Gathering event he would be ). The judge had to rule the person who resigned lost the game.
Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting this as behaviour you think we should emulate? That's abhorrent. This is basically just an story about someone cheating at chess and getting away with it. They've played an excellent game of meta-chess certainly. But the thing is meta-chess is a stupid game and people wouldn't play it if they could help it. Chess is a great game, meta-chess not so much. The purpose of the tournament was to compare people's abilities at chess, not meta-chess, and by the sounds of things it failed in its intended goals.
At best you demonstrate that people can play dirty and get away with it. That may be the case, but I do not condone it at all and neither, I expect, does the rest of the community here.
fire&ice' Wrote:Irgy and Mardoc I want to see how you react to this.
I react with confusion similar to Mardoc's. I can only imagine you're pulling some sort of stunt, the nature (and wolfiness or otherwise) of which is not yet clear to me. I've yet to learn much of your in-game personality fire&ice so it's hard to tell. Something to be filed away for future interest.
). The judge had to rule the person who resigned lost the game.
. Surely you know that you're innocent, which is more than the rest of us do? I at least believe I have a 5/22 chance of getting a wolf by voting you.![[Image: a31b.gif]](http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x420/Bruindane/a31b.gif)