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It was dark. Zakofonix was lying in the hay in Farmer Cull's barn, trying to sleep. Now that the farmhand had proudly marched off to the Mayor's residence, Zakofonix had volunteered to look after the cows. He reckoned they provided good company, and the barn was a warm and cozy place to dry off. [If you know what I mean.] He kept listening for screams and other scary noises, but heard nothing yet. Sobered in many senses of the word, he composed his somber thoughts into a little verse, mentally titled "Suspicions".
The smith must have an axe to grind
The glass blower knows how to huff and puff
The snoop says he has a villain to find
Or maybe we should call his bluff
The teacher preaches and the trapper preys
The bowyer never shoots straight
The barbarian has a real scary gaze
And an awkward gait
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To be a little more specific, I'd probably be most comfortable with lynching Mardoc the glass blower next. He has been quiet, and most of the things he did post were simple calls for other quiet people to speak up. Strikes me as an easy way to build up his post count and appear to contribute.
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zakalwe Wrote:Ichabod, I mostly agree with the last paragraph here but disagree with the rest. Close votes reveal more information (not necessarily right away, but eventually). If I had been around at the end of the day I would definitely have voted for Cull in order to provoke a tie. First of all, a late swing towards someone on day 1 in general seems much more likely to catch a wolf than to catch a villager. Second of all, close votes are very revealing if one of the candidates happens to be a wolf, and it doesn't get closer than a tie. Lewwyn got some heat for switching back from Cull to MJW, and I agree it was a bit of a bad play. But it could have worked out great if MJW did turn out to be a wolf; that would essentially have cleared Lewwyn (I think, if I'm reading the vote history correctly).
So in essence, voting late like this really isn't necessarily a case of trying to make your own vote count more than anybody else's; it could also be part of a general strategy to encourage close votes, which reveal more information.
Yeah, I failed to look at it from a different perspective.
I wasn't considering the value of the information that late swing votes can bring. I guess I should stop trying to play this game based on "what would be the fairest way to do it?" and start concentrating in ways to get information.
Guess we'll need to pay a steep price for information... A price that I'd like to avoid having to pay... (  now I'm just being overly dramatic)
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Ichabod Wrote:I wasn't considering the value of the information that late swing votes can bring. I guess I should stop trying to play this game based on "what would be the fairest way to do it?" and start concentrating in ways to get information.
Nothing is fair and everything is fair when it comes to werewolves. Lives are precarious. Once you're dead, you're dead. There's no way to "fairly" pick a person to lynch. That's why its called a lynching!
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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Lewwyn Wrote:Nothing is fair and everything is fair when it comes to werewolves. Lives are precarious. Once you're dead, you're dead. There's no way to "fairly" pick a person to lynch. That's why its called a lynching!
The decision will always be arbitrary (or most of the time). But the procedure in which the decisions are taken can be made in a way that will be the fairest. And, IMO, the fairest procedure doesn't include late swings (essentially, late swings = no opportunity to defend yourself).
But I'm starting to lean towards the conclusion that the fairest procedure isn't the best one for the village. That's what I was trying to say.
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Ichabod Wrote:The decision will always be arbitrary (or most of the time). But the procedure in which the decisions are taken can be made in a way that will be the fairest. And, IMO, the fairest procedure doesn't include late swings (essentially, late swings = no opportunity to defend yourself).
But I'm starting to lean towards the conclusion that the fairest procedure isn't the best one for the village. That's what I was trying to say.
Late swings are the only real defense a Village has. Do you think WWs would be fair about letting people defend themselves if they felt they could get away with a late swing? Part of the reason I made my last swing was because I knew that no one would be able to stop me. In the end I knew that my choice was one the wolves couldn't control. I was hoping for MJW to be a wolf but I can't say I'm upset he's dead either.
In any case I'm glad you're beginning to see the necessity of being unexpected and surprising. Its not unlike battle tactics. As much as discussion plays a role in this game, you could view our votes as the only true weapons we have. Why not maximize their value by using them in the most effective way possible?
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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Lewwyn Wrote:In any case I'm glad you're beginning to see the necessity of being unexpected and surprising. Its not unlike battle tactics. As much as discussion plays a role in this game, you could view our votes as the only true weapons we have. Why not maximize their value by using them in the most effective way possible?
Because the increase in the late swinger's vote value decreases the value of the other player's vote. That strikes me as a little bit unfair.
But I agree with you. Votes are our only weapons. Day 1 proved that to me, since it showed that some people will only start talking when there are votes against them. It seems that no votes thrown means that no discussion will be made.
And about your specific late swing. Well, you made your call. No problem with that.
I won't say it backfired, since it seems that most of MJW voters thought he was a villager and still wanted to kill him anyway. So the fact that he was indeed a villager is not much of a surprise and they got what they thought they would get. But I'm yet to see any kind of proof of wolfish behaviour by MJW's part, so any argument under this basis will still strike me as odd.
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Sareln, can you please strikethrough the players name in the 1st post when they are dead? It should make keeping track of who is left a bit easier
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Meiz Wrote:Reading through Roland's comments gave me an instant "oh no, not again" moment. He can be really good at making people look suspicious (know it personally ). Fortunately as I read the conversation further, the alarm faded away slowly... :neenernee
Anyway, it will definitely be an interesting day 2 
I don't have any strong suspects at this point (including you), so I wouldn't worry too much. 
Rowain Wrote:It was Roland you and sandover who started the bandwagon (Although Meiz and Lewwyn had voted Cull first it didn't get much momentum). Those 3 and especially the Mardoc/scooter duo-switch put Cull into danger.
Not to sound defensive, but how did I start the bandwagon exactly? I wasn't even around when everyone switched, and I sure wasn't attempting to sway anyone towards voting for him. Part of the reason I voted for him was that he was so low on the board, I didn't feel he was in much danger, and I didn't feel like contributing to either the MJW or pocketbeetle votes since I didn't feel either was a 'Wolf. I didn't want to vote for any of the new players, either, and since I felt (at the time) Cull was probably going to continue to be quiet, it was in the best interests of the Village to remove the quietest players so we have the most discussion possible, at least early on. Arbitrary, I suppose, but we don't have much to go on at this point.
I'm just curious, because I was honestly as surprised as everyone else how close Cull came to being lynched, which is not how I would think someone who's "leading a bandwagon" would act. I just fail to see how Meiz & Lewwyn are any less guilty than I am for voting Cull just because "it failed to get any traction."
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Roland Wrote:Not to sound defensive, but how did I start the bandwagon exactly? I said you uberfish and sandover started it not you alone . It just happened that uberfish and sandover jumped at your vote and where later followed by others as well. About being online while the switch happens or not: wolves can coordinate but no I don't think you are a wolf based on that so no need to get too defensive.
Roland Wrote:I just fail to see how Meiz & Lewwyn are any less guilty than I am for voting Cull just because "it failed to get any traction."
If someone votes 20 hours before the lynch is and stays the second vote for nearly that time without gaining support this one is for sure not guilty of starting a bandwagon.
For someone who switches with less than 2 hours left and is followed by 5 others within the time the argument runs a bit differently
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