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Werewolf 3 Game Thread

Rowain Wrote:Wrong:
At the time of your switch PB was leading with 7 votes, Selrahc had 5 (novice has just switched from him) and your vote was the 3rd on me.

Booya, Meiz!
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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I admit I didn't check it now, and remembered it wrong. Anyway, the point is that I didn't feel confident on my vote against novice, so when I saw PB's post and you started to gather votes, I decided to jump on the train.

I was not ready to vote PB, just because his lack of posting (I've said this earlier), and his post against you added to my own suspicions.
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Rowain, I know for myself that I am a villager. Knowing that, I know that your theory is partly bullshit. I am not going to use other words now because you are - even if you are a villager - much to confrontational for my taste. Calm down a little bit please.

As for facts: Fact is you yourself were part of a swing. Together with zakalwe, novice and Meiz you all changed your vote in short order to Lewwyn on Day 1. So if you are a villager you should know for yourself how easy it is to be part of something like that. Especially with the amount of players and the lack of evidence. I would guess in some days it will be different.

Fact is also that you are sure that PB is a wolf. I agree that is possible. I also agree that there is a possibility to find out if there were really swings to save PB. I am willing to go for PB if that is what the majority wants. Though I would rather have you lynched and find it out this way to be honest.
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Serdoa Wrote:Rowain, I know for myself that I am a villager. Knowing that, I know that your theory is partly bullshit. I am not going to use other words now because you are - even if you are a villager - much to confrontational for my taste. Calm down a little bit please.

I don't think his theory ever included you as a WW. I think the only thing he's really said is PB is a WW. I do not believe that you and Meiz are WWs. I believe Pb posted a long text wall as convincingly as he could to try and start a swing, then Selrahc hopped on. Zakalwe I suspect because of his machinations now after the fact. I also believe he's using the RP as cover.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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Lewwyn Wrote:Zakalwe I suspect because of his machinations now after the fact. I also believe he's using the RP as cover.

Thank you!
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Serdoa Wrote:Rowain, I know for myself that I am a villager.
Selrahc also used this. He even tried to subtly hint that he has a special role

Serdoa Wrote:Knowing that, I know that your theory is partly bullshit.
My theory involves as far as you know 'PB is a wolf' what has this to do with your 'villager'-role?

Serdoa Wrote:I am not going to use other words now because you are - even if you are a villager - much to confrontational for my taste. Calm down a little bit please.
I'm not the one using words like Bullshit or other words. So please take your own advice wink

Serdoa Wrote:As for facts: Fact is you yourself were part of a swing. Together with zakalwe, novice and Meiz you all changed your vote in short order to Lewwyn on Day 1. So if you are a villager you should know for yourself how easy it is to be part of something like that. Especially with the amount of players and the lack of evidence. I would guess in some days it will be different.
Yes of course a swing during the first part of day1 has to be treated like a swing just before lynchtime rolleye.

Serdoa Wrote:Though I would rather have you lynched and find it out this way to be honest.
I believe that you are honest with that lol I'm also sure PB would whole-heartedly agree. But you see the only thing that lynching me would prove is that I'm a villager. It might give my theories some weight but not prove them.
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Humans. Catch a wolf and argue into the early hours of the morning anyway... but a couple of good points have come up.

1) I agree that Zakalwe's voting behaviour so far has been generally suspicious.

2) Bruindane made the good point that assuming one of PB/Rowain was a wolf and one a villager would be bad. I agree with this. They could both be villagers and wolves just taking advantage of their argument.
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Recapitulating day2 and why I think PB should be lynched on Day 3

I cast my vote early and later ask for support because at that time the village was too devided for my comfort. After that the 3 maintargets began to shape: PB, Selrahc and novice.
Before PB made his entry Selrahc could have easily switched to PB (together with at least one other wolf) . This would have made the later following Rowain-BW nearly impossible and most likely sealed the deal against PB.
Now why did he not do it? Why did he not grasp this possibility?. He as a wolf knows full well who is a villager or not. so if PB is a villager I'm absolutly sure that he would have jumped on PB making sure to lynch him and as a consequenz lynch me the next day.
So his reluctance to do this makes only sense when PB is a wolf. After PB made his post most of the novice votes disappear and march straight onto me. Clearly Selrahc (& friends) did't want to lynch PB but were very eager to get rid of me.

Further more look at his post agaiunst me His first part is trying to paint me as selfcontradicting. A ploy Ichabod clearly sses through:

Ichabod Wrote:That's not exactly true. A contradiction would be: "PB is a wolf because he doesn't post" followed by "PB posts a lot, so he's probably a wolf".

What Rowain pointed out in his second argument is that PB only started to post after day 1 was over. It's not a condradiction, because it fits with his past argument (if the argument is good or not is up for discussion, obviously):

Next spin:
pocketbeetle Wrote:Why is it okay for Rowain to lead a lynch mob, yet bad for a villager to do so? Something that according to him, not even our elected mayor should do?
I critisize Serdoa for shoving responisbility onto someone while I take the responsibility in my hands. Yet he tries to spin it as if I wouldn't like villagers to take responsibilty.
Everyone who has read FFH2PBEM1 knows about the spinning-power of a certain ratman wink.

pocketbeetle Wrote:No, they're spreading irrational confusion and possibly obfuscating better arguments and campaigns that other villagers are trying to highlight.
I asked for help to lynch PB before anybody put out any theory. I didn't ridicule Mardoc like some people did and my obfuscating better arguments worked so well that Selrahc got lynched by 9/21 people. Clearly the village has to get rid of me else I obfuscate them into lynching another wolf lol
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uberfish Wrote:Humans. Catch a wolf and argue into the early hours of the morning anyway... but a couple of good points have come up.

1) I agree that Zakalwe's voting behaviour so far has been generally suspicious.

2) Bruindane made the good point that assuming one of PB/Rowain was a wolf and one a villager would be bad. I agree with this. They could both be villagers and wolves just taking advantage of their argument.

Agree with uberfish yet again. Both points are very well put. PB and Rowain don't seem to have the normal wolf behaviour, because they are putting themselves into a 1-1 situation. If one is lynched and turns out a villager, the other will probably be lynched next. And that wouldn't be good for the wolves.

I'd like to take a closer look at Zakalwe too. I haven't paid much attention to his posts until now, but he's indeed acting a little strange.


Since I'm sensing that I can be killed this night, I'll give some thoughts while I still have time. I can't make a detailed case, with posts and everything, because I don't have time, but I hope it can start some discussion.

My prime suspect is Jkaen. He seems to be playing like a not so experienced wolf.

Why?

1st His Votes: He never justified one of his votes until now. When I talk about justification, I mean a proper game one, one where you state why you think that person is supicious. So, what were his votes until now:

Day 1:

Meiz -> Just a joke RP post. But MNG called Jkaen about it in a post, saying:

"My methodology, since I haven't enough time to make a strongly informed decision (not that any decision will be well informed without a role-claim) was to pick a generally quiet villager who is not voting with any particular bloc for either mayor or lynch target. That leads me to Jkaen".

This lead to Jkaen second vote:

MJW -> No reasons given for the vote and it happened right after someone called him about his first vote. It's just too defensive play to do it, in my opinion. It gets worst when we factor that the guy who voted was MNG who was clearly away from the game. I don't see a reason for this switch, Jkaen didn't explain why he was voting for MJW and I don't see why he would switch from Meiz so fast after being called.

After that, Meiz called this behaviour, saying that it lead him to believe Jkaen as a suspect:

"Jkaen. I think Mr. Nice Guy described him well as a generally quiet person, who is avoiding voting blocks. Of course Jkaen switched his vote to MJW later, but that was after this comment, so I still find it a bit suspicious. More suspicious to me personally is the fact, that Jkaen is painting a target on my back with his roleplay. And as it is "just roleplay", he can easily switch his attitude later if necessary".

No defense was made, though, since no one seemed to care about Meiz comment with all the other things going on.

2nd Day:

Mr. Nice Guy -> Easy vote, he was the player with less votes. Easy to justificate and easy to switch out from.

Pocketbeetle -> He switched to PB because Rowain said to do so, then proceeded to wait for ages while the justification wouldn't come. He even called Rowain about. So, why not switch your vote? Why keep the vote on a player just because another one said to do so.

It's another "easy vote", in my opinion. Again, easy to justificate and easy to switch out from.

Rowain -> Joining the bandwagon after PB's post. Again, easy vote, no reasons given.


2nd. The only posts that Jkaen made that had some content were meta posts and defensive posts.

But even the defensive posts aren't much "to the point", It seems to be that he only talks about the weak parts of the argument. It seems to be very dodgy.


Overall, it seems to be a strange behaviour. Very defensive, not "offensive" at all (no new theories, no justification of posts).

I'm not very secure with this, so I'll leave it here for now, waiting for the group wisdom and judgement.
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I could get on board with lynching Jkaen.
I have to run.
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