Werewolf 3 Game Thread

[pocketbeetle]

Those people voting for Rowain continue to say that he is too sure of himself. Rowain has only said that his theory is PB is a wolf(I suppose even Void-wolf?) and that he believes his theory. That's no where near being sure.

I'm convinced that you are a wolf. I believe you are the voider. And you can be sure I will vote for you until one of us swings or I'm eaten.

My biggest fear at the moment is that Lewwyn and Rowain are our masons, because they're mirroring each other in words, actions, activity and posting times so closely.


Lewwyn the rest of your post was near incomprehensible.

[Lewwyn]

My biggest fear at the moment is that Lewwyn and Rowain are our masons, because they're mirroring each other in words, actions, activity and posting times so closely.


Lewwyn the rest of your post was near incomprehensible.

First, I gave you examples of times that people were sure or convinced of being guilty and these were people who were villagers. The point of the game IS to convince people... so how is being convinced you are a WW, wolfish? You can not condemn him for being so sure, unless you know for sure that he's right thereby telling you that in fact he is sure and certain you are a WW.


Just because you can't read, doesn't make you innocent.

[Jkaen]

Your right, the point is to convince people, so why won't he convince us?

Is his theory is so good, he has no doubts at all about PB, then please let him share it. If it's as good as he thinks it is I will happily admit I was wrong and switch.

Right now however he is presenting no argument

[Lewwyn]

Additionally, the mason thing is throwaway. When Luddite and I were masons we were sure never to post close to each other.

Also the first part of my response to your response is a bit difficult to read. Wrote that too fast. But I think the meaning is still clear. Can't say that being convinced of someone is grounds that they are a WW.

[Lewwyn]

Your right, the point is to convince people, so why won't he convince us?

Is his theory is so good, he has no doubts at all about PB, then please let him share it. If it's as good as he thinks it is I will happily admit I was wrong and switch.

Right now however he is presenting no argument

The point of my post was to present an argument for Zakalwe, but it also provided some reasons for PB. Did you read those reasons or are you blatantly ignoring them? PB was the constant beneficiary from both late swings. Also his attack on Rowain is subjective and full of holes. No evidence there either. PB's entire case is based on how he views Rowain's posts and the fact that he's too focused and too sure that PB is guilty.

So Jkaen where's the good argument against Rowain?

[pocketbeetle]

• You can't try and defend Rowain by saying that "he's not sure of himself".
  
• Then when presented with a quote of Rowain directly contradicting this, go on to say that "being certain isn't wolfish".
  
• When I've already argued, reasonably successfully, that anyone being 100% certain of a wolf on Day 1 frankly just isn't a villager. No villager knows for certain on Day 1, and no non-seer is 100% certain on Day 2.
  

I think trying to read and understand your posts is a waste of time Lewwyn...because you don't seem to understand them yourself.
Sorry.

[Roland]

Suspects:
PB
Zakalwe
Meiz

The problem with this list is that all three are part of the Rowain swing and I doubt there were that many wolves on the swing. I believe at most there were 3 wolves on the swing. Selrahc, PB and then either Meiz or Zakalwe. So this means that while I suspect Meiz and Zakalwe are wolves, I suspect one is a wolf and the other is a villager. I will continue to listen for other people's votes I'm quite curious to see.

If you're so convinced pocketbeetle is a 'Wolf, and you want to prove your theory, the best thing you can do is lynch pocketbeetle. It will lend weight to your argument about zakalwe versus Meiz, while at the same time furthering the Village's goals (lynching a 'Wolf). It's a far better, smarter play than taking a longshot - and a 50/50 one at that. Remember how well it worked out for us in WW2, when we were so SURE scooter was a 'Wolf - and yet, we saved him until the very end-game. Don't repeat the sins of the past - take the proper road.

I'm also greatly disturbed by the votes on Rowain. I find it highly suspicious that the votes on him continue to build even though Rowain's "crusade" against PB is actually more villager-ish than wolfish. Those people voting for Rowain continue to say that he is too sure of himself. Rowain has only said that his theory is PB is a wolf(I suppose even Void-wolf?) and that he believes his theory. That's no where near being sure. And, please, I was sure Meiz was a WW in WW2, I was sure Selrahc was the Devil, I was sure scooter was a WW until I wasn't sure. You can not use the certainty argument against Rowain.

I agree. I highly doubt any 'Wolf would so blatantly continue on a crusade against one player - for THREE days now, no less! It's catastrophically suicidal. The best outcome would be that they are both 'Wolves - thus lending deep trust and cover to the victor of the battle - but I highly doubt that. Possible, but not very plausible.

I am comfortable voting for Zakalwe, PB or Meiz. Currently have my vote on Zakalwe because I found his arguments after the lynch to be obtuse and obfuscating.

I can see your argument for zakalwe. It's an interesting theory, to be sure. Still, if you're so convinced of pocketbeetle's guilt it would be safer to lynch him, and return to zakalwe afterward. Of course, having said that zakalwe will probably vote for pocketbeetle, especially if it saves his own hide - only natural, no matter which team you're on.

Now take this and add it to his voting history:

Day 1, votes for PB
Day 2, votes for Rowain

In neither case do we know whether he has voted to lynch a WW or a Villager. But look he's basically playing both sides of the war here, voting both ways. But more importantly is the switching:

Day 1: Sandover, Lewwyn, pocketbeetle
Day 2: Mardoc, Fire&Ice, Uberfish, Rowain

At no point does he ever vote for the same person. He continues to spread the votes, spread suspicions, He even does it in RP. Almost everyone is mention in his RP at one point or another as suspicious! Even if not everyone reads it, if people only read some of the RP posts they'll get a whiff here and there.

While I admit that tossing votes around on random people strikes me as 'Wolfish, it's not solid enough evidence on its own. Frankly, the best evidence you've laid out thus far is the stuff about pocketbeetle. You have some points about zakalwe, but not enough solid evidence - yet.

I only hope that I am not misreading the tea leaves this time, though I feel more confident the more I read!

Please. Can you not see the foolishness in that statement? It's a self-serving argument, a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. You said the same thing about Meiz, and about me - look how well that turned out. I'm not saying you're wrong this time, just that your justification via this last line is pure bull - and dangerous. :neenernee

Having said that, I implore you once more - if you're so certain of Rowain's innocence, and pocketbeetle's guilt, vote to lynch pocketbeetle. Put your convictions to the test - I guarantee you'll garner some followers.

[Roland]

Lewwyn the rest of your post was near incomprehensible.

Yeah, I can't say I agree with this statement - at all. I think it's Lewwyn's best one to day, and raises several interesting points - even a few solid ones. You're not helping your case any. If his argument was bull, I'd agree with you - but it's not. It's not concrete, but it's solid enough to be worth posting, discussing, and potentially following. As much as I agree with your points about Rowain's crusade being founded (initially) on nothing, he's less suspicious because of that than you are.

[Jkaen]

To be honest its not that strong, I am hoping that at least enough votes go on him so he spills his theory.

I was happy sitting back and waiting till I had strong theories, people have said that is wolf like and I need to go on the offense, hence I am trying, but I am not convinced on anybody, hence why I am not trying to drum up everybody to follow me.

So in summary
Rowain - Sure PB is a WW
Jkaen - A bit suspicious of Rowain

[Roland]

The point of my post was to present an argument for Zakalwe, but it also provided some reasons for PB. Did you read those reasons or are you blatantly ignoring them? PB was the constant beneficiary from both late swings. Also his attack on Rowain is subjective and full of holes. No evidence there either. PB's entire case is based on how he views Rowain's posts and the fact that he's too focused and too sure that PB is guilty.

So Jkaen where's the good argument against Rowain?

I'm pretty sure Jkaen was asking Rowain for his evidence against pocketbeetle that he's been sitting on since Day 1, not yours. In any case, he does have a point. You've put forth far more (and better) evidence for pocketbeetle's guilt than Rowain has.

• You can't try and defend Rowain by saying that "he's not sure of himself".
  
• Then when presented with a quote of Rowain directly contradicting this, go on to say that "being certain isn't wolfish".
  
• When I've already argued, reasonably successfully, that anyone being 100% certain of a wolf on Day 1 frankly just isn't a villager. No villager knows for certain on Day 1, and no non-seer is 100% certain on Day 2.
  

I think trying to read and understand your posts is a waste of time Lewwyn...because you don't seem to understand them yourself.
Sorry.

Pardon me, but that's a crock of shit. I speak from personal experience. I was 100% certain Sandover was a 'Wolf on Day 1 in WW2. I was equally suspicious of scooter - on Day 1. Likewise for Serdoa - although, ironically, that could have cost us the game, rather than helped us. The only reasons I didn't suspect Selrahc even half as much on Day 1 was because he voted to lynch Sandover, and he was the Mayor. I called him out as suspicious, but I never followed up on it because 1) I didn't think he'd sell out a fellow 'Wolf, and 2) I didn't think he'd volunteer to be the Mayor if he was a 'Wolf. In hindsight, I had pegged 3 'Wolves and a Possessed all on Day 1, three of those four people I was dead certain of their team - and I was right.

Also, I think there's nothing at all difficult to follow in Lewwyn's post. He's doing a far better job of explaining himself than you are, while you're taking the Selrahc (WW2 and WW2) and Sandover (WW2) defense - ignore it, and hope it goes away.

Sorry pocketbeetle, but I'm not buying it.