Werewolf 3 Game Thread

[scooter]

Oooooookay, I'm finally caught up (geez you guys typed a lot today!)... I can't believe that I was gone for 6 hours and I came back only to have 1 hour of reading to do to catch up. Yeesh. Now that I've taken it all in, I have some thoughts.

I really wish I had been around today towards the end of the day. As I was catching up, I found myself nodding my head to most all of what PB was posting, and was finding myself baffled by some of the arguments against him. Are you telling me we just lynched a villager and the key point against him was "he didn't defend himself very much against the giant mound of evidence against him" - and the giant mound of evidence against him was that he didn't defend himself very well. Whaaaat? What kind of brain dead logic is that? Sorry for the harsh words, but quite frankly, this is one of the more moronic lynches in recent memory. PB was dismissive of some of the attacks against him, because they were worth dismissing. Honestly, PB was dismissive of Roland and Lewwyn (for some good reasons, though he probably should've toned down the snark), and it seems like the two of them basically got butthurt about it, so they lynched him.

PB was dead on - there's some serious hypocrisy going on. Roland says to Serdoa that he is not worth listening to (Serdoa actually wrote some great posts - some of the most helpful of the day), and then when PB says the same thing about Roland... well then it's grounds to lynch PB. In that case, we should probably lynch Roland tomorrow, given that he made that double standard himself. I am sincerely sorry that I wasn't around all morning, because I would've happily jumped from JKaen to Lewwyn to help save PB. I didn't know the ending as I was catching up (I started reading from exactly where I left off), so I kept thinking as I was reading "yeesh, I sure hope a swing happens to save PB, as he obviously looks like a villager" and I kept reading, and reading and reading..... and it never happened. It started, but so many people could've done something and chose not to.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm just blaming everyone, as I am well aware that I didn't exactly help either, though I wish I could've. The noon time is just going to be bad most of the time from now until Monday, as it's an unusual week for me.

I'm sorry Roland, but you have either overplayed your hand as a wolf, or you have completely misplayed today as a villager. You latched onto PB, and refused to look away from it. Come on, "lack of a defense in the face of weak evidence" is the most ludicrous method for lynching someone... I know, you'll say you used it for Selrahc in WW2, but remember - correlation does NOT imply causation. Just because Selrahc got caught like that last game does not at all mean that's great grounds to catch a wolf, just like the fact that both of our masons had "L" names last time does not mean we should trust those who start with L in this game. Totally irrelevant. Not a perfect example I know, but it's not that far off either.

(I'll admit, I'm kind of upset right now about PB getting killed as it seems so ridiculous to me, so I'm sorry if I was too harsh. I may regret it later, but for right now, I mean every word I just said. Moving on.)

On a lighter note, this made me grin a little bit, despite the unhappy mood:

Just found this gem

I'm convinced that Rowain saw what I wrote, and decided to spite me by immediately going on a blind, close-minded crusade less than 24 hours later . With the benefit of hindsight, that's a hilariously horrible post of mine .

Back to more serious matters:

So, how comes you know that scooter is not playing on Team Werewolf Roland? I see only one possibility: You yourself are on Team Werewolf and you slipped up.

This was odd to me too, honestly. I mean, I know I am a villager, however I am also well aware that there's not much reason to assume I am a villager. I did cast a huge deciding vote on Selrahc (before novice and Sandover piled on), so given that I could have "saved" him if I was a wolf, I think that's good evidence to support me as a villager, however it's hardly concrete... And besides, he definitely was not citing that vote, he was simply going based off of how I talk in this game. I don't think he'd say that unless he knew for sure I was a villager. The only two ways that is possible is if he's a wolf or if we are the masons, and:

Other possibility is that he is a mason. If so, now is about the time to reveal it. It would be a suicide for a wolf to say this, though...

I'll address this. I am not a mason. I don't like saying it as it narrows things down for the wolves, but I feel this needs to be addressed right now, so the false theory doesn't persist. I am not a mason, neither am I a werewolf. Draw from that whatever conclusions you'd like, but I am certainly not a mason, so yes, Roland's view of me is quite peculiar.

One final plea. I've laid some cards down on the table here, which is something I haven't done a lot of so far - partially due to RL interfering, and partially due to not wanting to suspect Roland unless I knew for sure. The reason is his behavior. PB lashed at Roland's behavior, so in response, Roland wrote hundreds of words railing against PB, and got him lynched. As a village, we cannot afford to lynch many more villagers, so I'm terrified of him doing the same to me. I'm not going to cast my vote yet obviously, as it's night time, but all I am saying is that I have officially moved Roland onto my suspects list. My list looks like this at the moment:

1. Roland
2. Lewwyn
3. Ichabod (he makes this list for his dubious swap late in the day that indirectly helped kill PB)
4. JKaen (don't see any pressing need to remove him yet)
5. Fire&Ice (This was PB's dying words, and since PB is confirmed innocent, we need to consider this. Also, where was he all day today?)

My vote tomorrow will probably land on one of those 5, depending on how the conversation goes tomorrow.

[Irgy]

Darn, I actually kind of thought we had one there. As usual it was speculation more than anything else, but I guess I was kind of on an overconfidence high after Selrahc. A guilty pocketbeetle would have shown a few things, but an innocent one now kind of leaves us hanging, with little idea where to go.

It's all well and good to sound all self-righteous now scooter, but no-one else was really a candidate yesterday, and no-one else has a good case against them that I've seen. So who were we supposed to vote for? Pocketbeetle's been a candidate on every day so far, and although he's really nothing like MJW, he's a bit like MJW in being someone everyone seems to want to vote for all the time. Maybe I should have picked up on the fact that he got voted off as seer (ok technically the fool, but he thought he was the seer) in WW1 and realised he's just someone people seem to want to vote for.

Overall it was a very dull day when it came to votes. No big swings, a couple of half-hearted lurches at best. Maybe it's because we gave the wolves a bit of a day off, with pocketbeetle but no other strong candidates. Maybe it says more about the state of the village than what the wolves are up to.

No-one posted anything between about 1930 and midnight my time (which is 7 to 3 hours before the lynch) while I was up waiting for something to read, and now a ton of stuff seems to have appeared just in time for me to go to work. Typical

[Rowain]

Some comments about roland and Lewwyn

Lewwyn: On day 1 he broke the tie between Cull and MJW (at the time of his swing both had 7 votes as novice was then still on Pocketbeetle. His switch lynched MJW (a villager) while saving Cull also a villager. I think a wolf would have far rather have novice to make the decision which villager to lynch except if novice is a wolf.

On day 2 he stayed at PB and was very obnoxious with his constant Vote PB posts.

Asked why he trusts me he says:

I, uh, have a meta reason for trusting him? After the wolf kill I was waiting for people to post. So like I always do I was snooping and checking to see if anyone was replying to thread. Rowain was actually searching the thread. I believe it said reading all posts in WW3 by Bob, or somesuch. Later he posted that quote from Bob. I figured he was a villager looking to see if there was anything Bob had said to tip them off. And he found it and posted it.

Now I find this profile checking etc borderline cheating and don't like it but I think that a ww would not have to look what I'm doing and use that but OTOH Selrahc tried to subtly hint that he has a special role too so maybe this was clever wolfploy to look innocent.


Roland: He did start the Cull-BW on day1 but as the only other candidates were PB and MJW (both villagers) does that make sense as a wolf?

On day 2 he tied the vote moving Selrahc up to 7 votes) between myself and Selrahc. (scooter was vote Nr 6 on Selrahc while I still had 7 at that time). Again does that really make sense as a wolf? Well it might if I'm the voider.

But I can asure you that I'm nothing but the vintner (who somehow had a bit too much Methanol in his wines)
Knowing my role I rather believe we are 3 fools and not 2 wolfs and a fool.

[scooter]

Now I find this profile checking etc borderline cheating and don't like it but I think that a ww would not have to look what I'm doing and use that but OTOH Selrahc tried to subtly hint that he has a special role too so maybe this was clever wolfploy to look innocent.

This doesn't necessarily condemn Lewwyn or anything, but I should note that in the last game when I played WW, I did this more than once. Also:

I, uh, have a meta reason for trusting him? After the wolf kill I was waiting for people to post. So like I always do I was snooping and checking to see if anyone was replying to thread. Rowain was actually searching the thread. I believe it said reading all posts in WW3 by Bob, or somesuch.

The underlined portion is not possible... I'm 95% sure VBulletin does not give you that information, it merely says "Searching Forums" but it definitely does not get that specific. I didn't see that he said that way back, but I just thought I should point out that the underlined portion is not true.

[novice]

Excellent points by Rowain. We should be able to rule out many more using similar reasoning. Those who remain are likely wolves.

[fire&ice]

My list looks like this at the moment:

1. Roland
2. Lewwyn
3. Ichabod (he makes this list for his dubious swap late in the day that indirectly helped kill PB)
4. JKaen (don't see any pressing need to remove him yet)
5. Fire&Ice (This was PB's dying words, and since PB is confirmed innocent, we need to consider this. Also, where was he all day today?)

My vote tomorrow will probably land on one of those 5, depending on how the conversation goes tomorrow.

Lets see I wasn't here today because first off I live in pennsylvania.

I had a boat load of work for all of sunday. Then I had to sleep (gift from the devil I am sure). Then I had to go to school I am sure none of you do that either. *In case none of you can tell this was sarcasm.* I just got home from a dentist apointment so I was gone for more then the last 24hours of this day.

I hope I can be around for the targets drawn on my back the next day.

[Serdoa]

Addressing one thing right now because it really irks me. Roland, you wrote

Yes I know, you knowed nearly all wolves AND the possessed on Day 1. And everyone else was responsible for your bad votes afterwards...

There you go, putting words in my mouth again - just as you did in last game. At this point, responding to you is a waste of my time and energy.

Putting words in your mouth? Post 1084 in this thread by you:

Pardon me, but that's a crock of shit. I speak from personal experience. I was 100% certain Sandover was a 'Wolf on Day 1 in WW2. I was equally suspicious of scooter - on Day 1. Likewise for Serdoa - although, ironically, that could have cost us the game, rather than helped us. The only reasons I didn't suspect Selrahc even half as much on Day 1 was because he voted to lynch Sandover, and he was the Mayor. I called him out as suspicious, but I never followed up on it because 1) I didn't think he'd sell out a fellow 'Wolf, and 2) I didn't think he'd volunteer to be the Mayor if he was a 'Wolf. In hindsight, I had pegged 3 'Wolves and a Possessed all on Day 1, three of those four people I was dead certain of their team - and I was right.

Did you not state exactly what I said? That you knowed many wolves and the Possessed on Day 1? And that you were dead certain of their team - ironically you still voted for other players. I am pretty sure I read that you voted for Meiz because others asked you to do it and you really didn't feel good with it. That for me means that you make others responsible for your bad votes. Of course that reads now differently...

I take full responsibility for every single wrong move I made in that game. Some were heavily influenced by others, but most were just me being wrong, and not following through with my convictions. I'm doing my best not to make the same mistakes this game. Ironically, you're doing your best to reprise your role note-for-note from last game - just like Selrahc did.

And the last part:

You truly are worth ignoring, Serdoa, if only because you consistently twist people's words to suit your own position. That's about as close to outright lying as you can get without actually doing it, but I've no desire to rehash that argument, nor any other.

You purposefully bait people into rising to an emotional response, and than chide them for it. I don't know if it's just some twisted game you like to play, or if you're simply just that deluded that you feel your behavior is normal. Suffice it to say you have nothing to offer except bullshit, and I'm more than tired of listening to it. Have a nice day.

Somebody who is writing novels in English can get his words twisted by someone who does have difficulties to even write basic sentences in English? Thats funny

As for the other stuff:

Yeah, that has exactly as much with the game to do as your emo-bullshit.

[Ichabod]

My list looks like this at the moment:

1. Roland
2. Lewwyn
3. Ichabod (he makes this list for his dubious swap late in the day that indirectly helped kill PB)
4. JKaen (don't see any pressing need to remove him yet)
5. Fire&Ice (This was PB's dying words, and since PB is confirmed innocent, we need to consider this. Also, where was he all day today?)

Haha, there were 7 people voting for PB and I'm the one who helped killing him.

Like Irgy said, it's easy to talk after it's done, scooter. Who would you vote for if you were here near the lynch?? I don't have any kind of good suspicions right now, voting Lewwyn was just gut feeling and probably a bad one. So, it wouldn't be fair to lynch PB over Lewwyn or Lewwyn over PB.

We should start making cases against people, not wait for this late bandwagons. A very late bandwagon against Lewwyn started to save PB, but what were the evidences against Lewwyn?

Very easy to talk after everything is done, like Irgy said. It'd be the same if I started bragging about being responsible for Selrahc's lynch. I surely tried to make a case against him, but I was nowhere near sure he was a wolf. At least I have the decency of saying it, the same way I admited not to have a clue about who to lynch on day 3.

You can call me coward because I didn't vote for anyone on day 3. But I insisted that we tried to analyse things again and bring more options. I didn't have the time to do it myself and I admit that it makes me guilty too.

Let's calm ourselves and not turn this into a PB friends vs Roland friends/Rowain friends or whatever. We need to focus and read everything again. Forget about revenge or anything like that. It'll be our defeat.

[Sandover]

So... I thought PB was a wolf and he turned out innocent. Knowing that it's reasonable to assume Roland, who I said must be innocent, is actually a wolf. Hah, flaudless logic at its best!

Anyone know a brand of hats with decent taste?

[Ichabod]

Calm down, Serdoa.

No point in turning this into something personal.