Werewolf 3 Game Thread

[Irgy]

Bottom line: it's a suicidal last-ditch effort, and I dare say it skirts breaking the spirit of the no-PM rule (which was enacted, to my understanding, specifically to combat the forming of trusted networks and voting blocs). Obviously, I think Sareln would have commented by now if he objected, but I object on personal principle. I'd rather win, or lose, this thing without resorting to such measures. Maybe that's just me, and I won't judge anyone negatively if they disagree, but that's how I feel. I want to win this, but I want to do it "the old fashioned way." To do otherwise feels like gaming the system, regardless of whether it's allowed or not.

Although I flat out refuse to contribute to this discussion during the night period, this paragraph in particular needs a comment.

Roland, what on earth are you smoking? There's nothing dirty or illegitimate about role claiming. No pms is good for a wealth of reasons, it's not a patch designed to prevent trusted networks at all. No pms is the default rule for werewolf - "real life" (i.e. in person rather than over the internet) mafia games, which were the original format, implicitly disallowed invisible-non-public communication by simply providing no means to do it. There's nothing gaming the system about it at all, it's a quite common and well established strategy.

[Irgy]

There's nothing gaming the system about it at all, it's a quite common and well established strategy.

Sorry, rereading the above it might not be clear; this sentence is referring back to role claiming not continuing the topic of no-pms.

[Roland]

Sorry, Roland and village. I'm just a villager without time. I had time to play until half of day 3 and I got pretty busy afterwards. The problem is that I'll only be able to start helping again after sunday afternoon.

After Selrahc's kill I got completely lost regarding suspects. The thread just become too full of posts to properly follow, let alone reading it again.

Since I'm not sure about anything anymore, my voting became quite a mess... Sorry about that...

I wasn't trying to accuse you, Ichabod. I was just throwing up everyone with near-perfect records, as an example of one potential thing to look for. Certainly it should not be the only factor - far from it, actually.

Hell, I think that's half our problem in this game: multiple people are too busy to play. Cull gets modkilled. Mr. Nice Guy was busy for much of the early game. Ichabod's busy. Gold Ergo Sum is obviously busy. Fire&ice is busy. Too many players who simply don't have enough time to commit to this game. It's a shame, too - it can be such a fun experience.

[Roland]

Roland, what on earth are you smoking? There's nothing dirty or illegitimate about role claiming. No pms is good for a wealth of reasons, it's not a patch designed to prevent trusted networks at all. No pms is the default rule for werewolf - "real life" (i.e. in person rather than over the internet) mafia games, which were the original format, implicitly disallowed invisible-non-public communication by simply providing no means to do it. There's nothing gaming the system about it at all, it's a quite common and well established strategy.

I'm not smoking anything. I just stated my personal opinion on the subject. I don't care how others feel about it - I just don't like the idea of it. Sareln already said there's nothing wrong with it, and even I said that I doubted he would disagree with it. It's my opinion, it only has bearing and relevance to myself, and it was stated to shed light on why I'm so deeply opposed to the idea. If you find that offensive, you're misreading it. It was not in any way a reflection upon anyone else. I don't know how much more of a disclaimer you want.

Maybe it's naive to take such a stance, or foolish, or whatever, but that's where I fall on the spectrum - for better or worse. I really don't care what others decide for themselves. It's just, for me, breaking the spirit that I envisioned for myself within this game - like playing Pure in Diablo, or a Living off the Land variant, or some such. I thought I made it perfectly clear that I was talking about myself, but since I didn't, there it is again. I'm sorry I even opened my mouth about it at this point. Forget I even said it.

[Ichabod]

I wasn't trying to accuse you, Ichabod. I was just throwing up everyone with near-perfect records, as an example of one potential thing to look for. Certainly it should not be the only factor - far from it, actually.

Hell, I think that's half our problem in this game: multiple people are too busy to play. Cull gets modkilled. Mr. Nice Guy was busy for much of the early game. Ichabod's busy. Gold Ergo Sum is obviously busy. Fire&ice is busy. Too many players who simply don't have enough time to commit to this game. It's a shame, too - it can be such a fun experience.

I was having a lot of fun before all the real life mess started. But now the effort needed for the game would be overwhelming. I never expected to see such a big thread.

My record is not perfect. I just didn't want to interfere on the voting of players when I didn't have any convictions made about the vote candidates. I find it unfair, because I just want to vote when I have suspicions about the players. Day 3 is a good example, I thought both Lewwyn and PB were villagers, so I voted for myself.

I didn't expect that the village would be in such a bad situation before I started being able to handle my life again. Now I'm feeling very guilty for not being able to help...

[Lewwyn]

The masons should reveal themselves tonight before the night is over. We need to narrow the suspects by eliminating the masons from the suspect pool. We have to do it at night to make sure the wolves don't get lucky and kill mason before their reveal. If the wolves are able to kill one mason before they reveal the other mason becomes useless and the power role is negated because and mason claim can made by anyone and cannot be backed up by. It must be done this night. We can not afford to wait any longer. I would suggest the masons reveal in a post just before the Night results come in. But even if the reveal happened earlier and a mason was killed it would simply confirm the reveal. Also, if the masons reveal, the baner can take a 50-50 chance on protecting one of them instead of randomly protecting people in the night. This is truly imperative, we need to eliminate suspects, we need to make things more difficult for the wolves (ie: giving the banner marked targets to defend).

[Irgy]

I'm not smoking anything. I just stated my personal opinion on the subject. I don't care how others feel about it - I just don't like the idea of it. Sareln already said there's nothing wrong with it, and even I said that I doubted he would disagree with it. It's my opinion, it only has bearing and relevance to myself, and it was stated to shed light on why I'm so deeply opposed to the idea. If you find that offensive, you're misreading it. It was not in any way a reflection upon anyone else. I don't know how much more of a disclaimer you want.

Maybe it's naive to take such a stance, or foolish, or whatever, but that's where I fall on the spectrum - for better or worse. I really don't care what others decide for themselves. It's just, for me, breaking the spirit that I envisioned for myself within this game - like playing Pure in Diablo, or a Living off the Land variant, or some such. I thought I made it perfectly clear that I was talking about myself, but since I didn't, there it is again. I'm sorry I even opened my mouth about it at this point. Forget I even said it.

Well, I think it's a silly opinon to have, and I hope I explained my reasons why. But you're entitled to think whatever you'd like. My apologies if my post was impolite.

[Roland]

I was having a lot of fun before all the real life mess started. But now the effort needed for the game would be overwhelming. I never expected to see such a big thread.

Yep. That's what happens. Real Life always takes precedence, though. I don't think anyone's going to blame you if circumstances beyond your control came up.

My record is not perfect. I just didn't want to interfere on the voting of players when I didn't have any convictions made about the vote candidates. I find it unfair, because I just want to vote when I have suspicions about the players. Day 3 is a good example, I thought both Lewwyn and PB were villagers, so I voted for myself.

Bah. Don't sweat it. If not for my record being tarnished with pocketbeetle, I'd put my own name up there. It's not like I haven't been accused of it already. Honestly, I wasn't singling you out, nor even saying you're guilty as such. I was just positing one theory and seeing anyone who fit that description. Nothing personal.

I didn't expect that the village would be in such a bad situation before I started being able to handle my life again. Now I'm feeling very guilty for not being able to help...

Come on man. Relax a little, will you? You've contributed, you've put in your time, you've done your best. I don't think anyone is blaming you for the situation we're in. My observations about voting records are just that: observations. They're meaningless on their own, without further data to back it up there's no real case on anybody. Hell, my theory could be completely off the mark: it's mostly based on the word of others - namely, that at the end of the game the 'Wolves tend to have the best voting record. For all we know they could be playing "smarter" this game and dirtying their record on purpose. It honestly wouldn't surprise me - they're doing a damn good job of staying hidden so far, or so it seems.

Look: bottom line, Real Life is way more important than this game. Furthermore, the success or failure of this Village does not rest on one man. We're just in a rut, and it's irritating, but I honestly feel we still have a solid shot at winning this. Like I said: all we need is one 'Wolf kill. So keep your chin up, will you? All of us (myself included).

The masons should reveal themselves tonight before the night is over. We need to narrow the suspects by eliminating the masons from the suspect pool. We have to do it at night to make sure the wolves don't get lucky and kill mason before their reveal. If the wolves are able to kill one mason before they reveal the other mason becomes useless and the power role is negated because and mason claim can made by anyone and cannot be backed up by. It must be done this night. We can not afford to wait any longer. I would suggest the masons reveal in a post just before the Night results come in. But even if the reveal happened earlier and a mason was killed it would simply confirm the reveal. Also, if the masons reveal, the baner can take a 50-50 chance on protecting one of them instead of randomly protecting people in the night. This is truly imperative, we need to eliminate suspects, we need to make things more difficult for the wolves (ie: giving the banner marked targets to defend).

I'm... more than a little surprised at this stance Lewwyn. I kinda figured after the debacle that happened last game you'd be as diametrically opposed to revealing the power roles as I am. Maybe I'm the only one left with such a bad taste in his mouth after last game? Even Irgy's telling me it's silly to have such an opinion as I do about it, so maybe I am just off my rocker. Honestly Irgy, I think that's part of it, although maybe I have more of a problem with how the reveals went down lats game, rather than the actual revealing itself. I don't know. I honestly hadn't really explored my reasons all that much until it was brought up, hence my knee-jerk reaction earlier.

I guess part of it's just pride, too - which is silly, I'll admit. I just feel like... I don't know, like we're giving up having to resort to this. I mean, I admit it's... clever, in a way, but I still feel like we're trading basically everything, with no real guarantee of benefit. My biggest concern? What if we reveal everyone, and we still don't end up catching a 'Wolf in the next 2 Days? We start losing our power roles left and right, and although the odds are greatly increase we still don't manage to pull anything positive out of it. I admit, I'm a worrier. It's definitely in my nature, and so it tends to make me more cautious than I need to be sometimes. I think that's where I'm sitting right now: too worried about the possibility of failure with such a plan to really consider it (among my other reasons). I'm not sure how to proceed, in all honesty, and as much as I'm babbling about all of this I have to wonder about the wisdom of discussing this at night.

Oy. All I know is my sleep schedule is so screwed up I keep getting up in the middle of the night and finding my way here, just to kill a few hours time. :neenernee I don't think I have any answers to anything concerning the game at the moment. Sorry for the outburst about the reveal - it's mostly a personal hang-up, I think, based mostly (if not entirely) on the events of last game.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Gold Ergo Sum is obviously busy . . . Too many players who simply don't have enough time to commit to this game. It's a shame, too - it can be such a fun experience.

I am having a good time. I don't need to re-read the thread 15 times to enjoy myself. I have read every word written in this thread, even the banal flame wars between various parties. I am willing to juggle RL with this game and contribute what I can. If I thought winning this game was super important, I wouldn't have signed up to begin with.

That said, my intuition has been OK so far. Sure Sandover turned out to be a villager and my general inclination now is that Lewwyn is a villager, but I did vote for Selrahc because I thought Ichabod was pretty convincing, so I haven't been completely useless.

[Irgy]

Roland: I can't quite resolve your two apparent opinions that roles revealing is unwise and roles revealing is a cheesy strategy. These views to me seem a direct contradiction.

The only thing that brings them together is a general emotional dislike for the strategy, which I think is what you have. That's probably why I'm not understanding you well, because I'm an Asperger's-fueled rationalist and these emotional reactions just don't fit well in my world-view.