[SPOILERS] Werewolf 3 Lurker Thread

[Irgy]

Irgy, I did follow your argument, although I ended up disagreeing due to the greater consideration of people knowing more means more likely to catch a wolf due to not wasting brainpower on theories that turn out to be impossible to be true. That assumes, though, that there's enough friendly brainpower and trust, which in retrospect may have been a mistake to assume. And, well, I also disagreed as a smidgen of self-preservation - if I think the power roles should reveal, and yet I don't, clearly I'm not one. .

Well thank goodness for that, a relevant counterargument that we can just disagree on the weight of.

As far as self-preservation, I was never suggesting the baner to claim. I might not have been clear enough about that though. I think the baner is barely worth claiming at all, I was really only talking about the masons and, well, myself as it turns out. If the baner does claim it's a last minute effort to avert a completely certain lynch, which is what I was suggesting anyway although for different reasons.

I think that aspect of doublethinking everything you say is what really puts me off from playing Werewolf again, though. Half my arguments, and a third of my votes, were calculated just to deflect suspicion from me rather than to honestly point out a wolf or argue what I truly believed. That's the real reason I joined in on Lewwyn, for instance; I convinced myself that Baner was more valuable than villager, and I needed to get myself to trusted status. Otherwise I'd have stuck on Meiz. Plus, well, there was that outside chance that Lewwyn really was guilty.

Being too trusted was probably what got you killed. It's a fine balance really between being too suspicious and getting lynched, and being too trusted and getting killed. Villagers can ignore it really, they just want to make themselves trusted and take the hit if they're killed.

I was kind of the opposite. I wasn't the slightest bit worried about getting lynched as I had what I still believe would have been a rock-solid fool claim. So if anything I should have tried to draw more suspicion onto myself. As it was most people seemed to be confident I was village and then the wolves killed me.

Still, all in all it's reassuring that Team Lurker doesn't completely know what's happening either. . Well, except for Selrahc and Sareln, of course.

No, none of us have a clue. But what the heck, I'm going to make a guess though now for posterity:
Scooter, Zakalwe, Meiz

It's amusing to see the votes for "team wolf" to win increase by 1 every time a villager dies

[Sareln]

For posterity's sake, since it doesn't matter anymore (and it only reflects my beliefs at the time, anyway, not any actual knowledge), here's who I protected each night, to the best of my memory:

1. Mardoc - I knew nothing, and figured if I was lucky, the wolves would split void wolf and kill. I felt really stupid when someone pointed out Bob's seer strategy post.
   
2. novice - I figured he just had to be a villager after he killed Selrahc
   
3. Gold Ergo Sum - he defended the Baner publicly, I hoped the wolves would take that as an admission and attempt to kill him. Boy will my face be red if he's a wolf.
   
4. not sure - novice? Sareln might correct me. I was back to knowing nothing, so took a stab in the dark.
   You did indeed guard novice.
   
5. Ichabod. This was the only one that was more than a guess; I thought it through as a wolf, who would I kill, and Ichabod seemed like a good target; correct on Selrahc, fairly quiet, fairly unsuspected. A question for you, Sareln - did the wolves already know Ichabod wasn't the baner by using the void wolf on him? Or did they only learn it from your writeup? If the latter, it seems mildly unfair to me, but if the former, then it doesn't matter.
   Wolves don't get a response on their void. Eg. the void-wolf tells me who he voids and that's all he knows. Amusingly, the void wolf actually voided Irgy a total of 3 times as he kept trying to scan Mardoc. Other than Irgy's voiding, the wolves have always chosen to void and kill the same person.
   
6. Roland; figured he was being so helpful that the wolves were bound to try to silence him. I seem to have trusted his judgment too much, though.
   
7. Mardoc (in hopes that the wolves were splitting the void wolf and the kill) At the moment, anyway, I don't think the wolves actually thought I was the Baner, necessarily, but I had managed to get myself to trusted status with Roland and Ichabod, so I had to go anyway. Perhaps if they win tonight they'll let me know if I am right on this, or if I gave myself away by being too conspicuous staying out of most of the Baner strategy/critique posts, or something else.
   The wolves have promised me a long writeup on why they chose you tonight. It sounds like it was combination hunch and logic, and one of the wolves just won their team's MVP in all liklihood.
   

[novice]

I'm pretty sure both Zakalwe and scooter are wolves.

Zakalwe says scooter couldn't be the baner because he would have claimed baner when he was being voted for, but scooter was never in danger of being lynched, except when he amassed four votes during the final two minutes of a day, and Roland stumbled in and saved him.

@mardoc: My "worst baner ever" comment was just meant as black humour. I thought it was obvious that the baner couldn't be expected to avert any night kills, apparently it wasn't obvious to the rest of the village. My "best baner ever" comment, however, was sincere.

@Irgy: I followed your arguments in the mass role claim discussion. For me the overriding argument however was one I couldn't voice, namely that the two masons were already trusted villagers, so little would be gained by revealing them. I made a post to the effect that "the masons should most definitely not role claim" to try and confuse the wolves. I guess the only thing this achieved was to royally piss off Lewwyn, who felt I was ignoring his arguments (which I was).

I guess I was unnecessarily suspicious at times, however I had the opportunity to shake things up as I had life insurance in a mason claim. And if I'm not suspected by anyone, the wolves will just kill me...

[uberfish]

In general, too many villagers have been behaving suspiciously this game. It's better for the entire village to be seen as pro-village so that no one stands out really. The whole Rowain vs PB fight that ended in both of them getting mislynched later was completely unnecessary.

[Rowain]

In general, too many villagers have been behaving suspiciously this game. It's better for the entire village to be seen as pro-village so that no one stands out really. The whole Rowain vs PB fight that ended in both of them getting mislynched later was completely unnecessary.

You are absolutly right here. On day3 several hours before the PB-lynch I had some doubts about the whole thing but not because of anything PB said or did. It was because of Roland & Lewwyn(on day2) pushed it so hard.
But as I didn't see any good way out I continued with it and hoped for the best.

One other thing that did hurt us was the fact that our 2 Masons didn't talk with each other. Or didn't find a common line.

I would have liked to see novice's face after Rolands last second switch.

[novice]

One other thing that did hurt us was the fact that our 2 Masons didn't talk with each other. Or didn't find a common line.

We were a bit confused as to what we were supposed to use our powers of communication for. When we couldn't even agree amongst ourselves on our suspects we basically just voted separately. Is it better for the masons to vote as a block? Maybe, but when both masons are convinced that the other mason's suspects are innocent, then what...

[T-hawk]

We were a bit confused as to what we were supposed to use our powers of communication for.

The role isn't necessarily for communication; the primary purpose of the mason role is to create a pair of villagers that can confirm each other as trusted. You did your job since Roland is alive and confirmed innocent. I think the best way to handle the mason role might be to vote together for two or three days, then reveal pointing to that evidence, so you can become trusted. It's very dangerous for any pair of wolves to counter-claim because if either wolf is busted so will be the other.

[Lewwyn]

Is it just me or has the village cooled on posting? Doesn't seem like much has been going on. People feeling like the inevitable? Or are all the talkative people not around anymore.

[Rowain]

I see the big advatage of beiing a MAson that you have one person whom you know to be a villager with whom you can discuss suspects and reasons, who can (try to) stop you from making yourself an fool (and vice versa).
You can discuss your theories with someone and in this discussion you might see failures or wrong reasoning. As a standard villager you don't have this luxury, you are alone and it is quite easy to see a wolf in every corner.

And having one Mason stomp in and upset a carefully crafted tie - crafted by his brother mason- cearly shows that communication between them is key.

I think especially in a game without any out-of-thread-talking those that are allowed to do it should use it.

[T-hawk]

Is it just me or has the village cooled on posting?

It's Monday morning and there's a whole day before the next game event. It'll heat up. Also of course there aren't very many players left now to be posting.

I see the big advatage of beiing a MAson that you have one person whom you know to be a villager with whom you can discuss suspects and reasons

Just discussing will often not get the masons anywhere, like happened in this game. They aren't necessarily right on anything they discuss. IMO the mason advantage is that they can confirm each other as innocent for the entire crowd.