PBEM 5H Vampires vs Ogres, Vampire spoiler thread

[DaveV]

Thanks for the updates, Irgy! I'm following this one with interest.

[Gaspar]

As to the original idea behind this game... have you seen any clan Ogres? To this outsider, it looks like Clan shot its proverbial wad and you're a shoo-in at this point (and I agree with your original point that Calabim is the strongest Civ.) Perhaps I'm missing something though, particularly as we're only getting one side of the story.

[Irgy]

Thanks for the updates, Irgy! I'm following this one with interest.

Thanks! By the way, a specific comment for you (and Bob when he eventually reads this):
I got Feudalism before Sanitation this game, and absolutely regretted it. You were talking about being criticised for going to Sanitation first, but I think it was absolutely the right choice. Having gone Feudalism first myself, I discovered that the economy absolutely crashed very shortly after. One turn I was earning 10 gold and -6 beakers per turn! What pulled me out of the hole was Public Baths. I was very lucky to be able to deficit research to Sanitation on the back of the spoils from capturing a barbarian city, otherwise I'd have wasted a lot of turns going nowhere. The fact that I could build vampires, but wasn't because I was busy building Public Baths, really highlights the fact that I got those techs in the wrong order.

As to the original idea behind this game... have you seen any clan Ogres? To this outsider, it looks like Clan shot its proverbial wad and you're a shoo-in at this point (and I agree with your original point that Calabim is the strongest Civ.) Perhaps I'm missing something though, particularly as we're only getting one side of the story.

As Bob himself has said, Ogres are a long way away at this stage. That he has iron from the Mines of Gal'dur already suggests he's not going to prioritise them that highly anyway. As long as I have Ritualists before he has Ogres I'm not that concerned really.

I think I'm a shoo-in as well. I think the clan still have plenty going for them, but my GNP lead is going to get me to what I want a lot faster. If Bob launched a very clever and well co-ordinated attack that outran and outmaneuvered my catapults he could cause me a lot of damage. But at the end of the day, we're equal in production and similar in power, and the defence always has the inherent advantage, so I don't expect much to happen.

I'm reluctant to attack him while he has hawks and I don't. So I'll wait for ritualists and hawks myself at least before launching into anything. That I can afford to wait is my advantage at this stage, and yes I do think it will be enough.

Still, I'm only seeing my side of the story as well No idea what Bob's plans are, and I'm sure he has something in mind.

[Irgy]

Well, it's all happening. Domestically we've researched Military Strategy, completed the Bone Palace, adopted Slavery, and whipped our first Gambling House (in the capital, 6 pop whip but predominantly removing unhappy population anyway).


Demographics before and after Bone Palace:

Before:

After:

However, that's not the real news. Remember I said:

If Bob launched a very clever and well co-ordinated attack that outran and outmaneuvered my catapults he could cause me a lot of damage. But at the end of the day, we're equal in production and similar in power, and the defence always has the inherent advantage, so I don't expect much to happen.

Well, Bob was listening (not literally, I'm sure he wouldn't read the thread).

No idea what Bob's plans are, and I'm sure he has something in mind.

And now I know. A massive stack has appeared in our border town. I'll describe it in more detail later when I've take a screenshot. But it looks like this could be the fight to decide it.

[Profane]

Did you get the free GC from Military Strategy?

[Irgy]

Did you get the free GC from Military Strategy?

Yes. He's attached to a vampire at the moment, although I kind of hope to shift him.

Some screenshots as promised. Bob's attack stack, and the current defenders. They probably won't hold the city, but if they can kill or at least injure some units I can hit and run next turn in retaliation.


The raw numbers on what's coming.


Catapults and vampires waiting in the wings. If he steps in range of the catapults, he's in strife. If he gives them the runaround, it's going to hurt. We'll see I guess.

[Irgy]

Bob's captured and razed Krinera. Not great news, but I wasn't exactly trying that hard to defend it, and it's not the end of the game by any means. He's sitting around healing up at the moment. If he heads north, he's walking straight into the catapults. If he heads south, I'll send some catapults around south the back way as well (there's a couple there already), but more importantly I'll run the northern stack of vampires around the north through into his back lines. With all those units in that one big stack he can't have too much defending at home (although I realise he can pump troops out very fast).

Techwise, ritualists are absolute top priority. I'll get Corruption of Spirit in time to change religions during the golden age, and priesthood will only take a couple of turns after that. Lets just hope it's founded in a decent production city and not a doomed border city.

[Irgy]

After razing one city, Bob has retreated. I'll quote his explanation - just to explain a bit of context though, he originally said they were all coming to have a party at the Bone Palace, and this is his response to my taunting him for retreating.

As for the party, sadly Bambur stubbed his toe on a brick from the smoldering ruins of whatever (he likes to party hard), and had to be escorted back home in tears. Ratine wishes to convey his sincere apologies at being unable to attend- that "catapult an orc" ride you had set up looked so fun, too! I think everyone enjoyed their all-too-brief stay in Calabim lands very much though, and I'm sure they'll be back soon enough

So obviously he saw the catapults with a hawk and decided against further incursions. Sensible enough really, but with my GNP lead it's not going to help him.

Domestically, I've founded the AV:


Rosier completed at the end of the most recent turn, and Priesthood is 1 turn away. I put a turn into Deception with intent to revolt to undercouncil while still on the Golden Age, but then realised it wasn't 10 turns since the Slavery revolt. The 10 turn limit should scale with game speed in my opinion, normally you have time for two revolts in a golden age, but on quick it's only 9 turns (not sure why it isn't 2/3x12=8 ) which isn't enough.

The capital currently has so much food it's overflowed the food box to the point where I have enough food to grow twice in a turn if the game would let me. And I haven't adopted Sacrifice the Weak yet even - actually I probably won't anyway.

[Irgy]

Got a lot of turns played today. No combat, although a large group of barbarian wolf riders came running in to donate me some experience, nice of them really. Bob's stack is sitting where it was, on the Remnants of Patria.

We've both progressed a long way in tech. Here's the trade screen:


So, Bob has on me the two RoK techs, and Drama - which he used for the artist and a golden age, running the same time as mine was. Not sure why he bothered but there you have it.

He's caught up Trade and Way of the Wicked. I apparently only just pipped him at the post with Deception. I'd have been upset if I missed it though as I could have had it a turn earlier but didn't want to move the slider since I'm relying on gambling houses for happiness everywhere. I've finally also got around to grabbing Hunting, and my first hawk fly-bys are coming next turn.

Over him I currently have:
Deception, Knowledge of the Ether, Corruption of Spirit, Warfare, Military Strategy, Priesthood, Mathematics, Fuedalism and Cartography.

An overview of the Calabim Empire:


"Mana filler" will be settled next turn, at which point I will get the last mana I need for the Tower of Necromancy. Although, I forgot to road it so I'll have to wait another few turns before I can start I lost three workers in total in the recent fighting, so I'm a little short, although most cities are improved completely so I haven't bothered building more. For what it's worth, two of those workers were Bob's anyway, and he had to delete all three, so I'm ahead in that regard

Some graphs and demographics:

It's fairly clear I have a distinctive lead in GNP at the moment, which he's not catching up. His power shows that he's decided to pump out more units instead. I'm actually building very few vampires right now, instead I'm plugging holes with hawks, ritualists, royal guard (finally got horses from an ex-barbarian city) and general infrastructure. However, I'm in a prime position to really pump out some units quickly. With the hawks ensuring no unwanted surprises I'm going to launch an offensive fairly soon if I can get away with it.

Although I'm also happy to wait. Currently 3 turns to Infernal Pact, followed by 5 turns to Fanaticism while simultaneously building the Infernal Grimoire. Not sure how long the Grimoire will take, but once it's done I'll have Malevolent Designs, unlocking some top tier units that are going to cause Bob a lot of trouble.

[Cyneheard]

Rosier completed at the end of the most recent turn, and Priesthood is 1 turn away. I put a turn into Deception with intent to revolt to undercouncil while still on the Golden Age, but then realised it wasn't 10 turns since the Slavery revolt. The 10 turn limit should scale with game speed in my opinion, normally you have time for two revolts in a golden age, but on quick it's only 9 turns (not sure why it isn't 2/3x12=8 ) which isn't enough.

In BtS, you'd see some real Spiritual abuse similar to running Cristo Redentor if on Quick you could revolt every 3t instead of every 5t. And they never bothered re-coding it for FFH.

Also, in the base game, it's a 6t GA without MoM so that you can revolt twice in a single GA. (Do you have a source of extending the Golden Age, or is the GA always longer in FFH?).