SG4-Immortality Scares Me

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Any chance once we get Paper that we can convince the AIs to trade us their world map for gold or as part of tech trades to get circumnavigation? Circumnav should be real goal for us on this map.

should be a scientist to give us an academy

Is an Academy in that city better than just saving the GScientist to bulb our way to Liberalism? My gut says no, although I guess TGL and mass scientists with Oxford could change that equation.

But if we aren't putting Globe in MM, where will we put it? Obviously if we are trying to win by Dom, and we have one-fifth the production of the leader, we are going to need to whip/draft a Globe city every turn. I don't see a single other city with enough food to Globe.

Totally agree that Bureaucracy sucks on this map. Civil Service is not a priority, except to get to Liberalism. Nationalism is clearly the key civic for us along that line I would think.

Any city near the happy cap I will whip a forge or harbor. Should we consider CHs at all? I assume Immortal maintenance costs get brutal.

As for culture flipping the barb city, if it doesn't fit our dotmap, shouldn't we rip it down and start settling south? And shouldn't we start settling south anyway?

If I settle any more islands, I am thinking the small islands to the east of the big island would be the ticket. What do you think?

I am teching Literature, and then probably CS. Definitely doing the trade mission. That gold will fuel us towards Liberalism. After Liberalism/Nationalism, what are the proper tech options?

Gunpowder/Rifling/Astronomy and begin destroying?

Banking/Economics/Corporations/Sci Method/Biology/Medicine for disgusting Sid's Sushi builds (we'll have like 20 seafood by then probably).

[luddite]

Any chance once we get Paper that we can convince the AIs to trade us their world map for gold or as part of tech trades to get circumnavigation? Circumnav should be real goal for us on this map.

Agreed, although we might be able to get it just by exploring with boats.

Is an Academy in that city better than just saving the GScientist to bulb our way to Liberalism? My gut says no, although I guess TGL and mass scientists with Oxford could change that equation.

Don't worry, we'll do both We're getting so many gpp right now that we can afford to use one scientist on an academy, and still have at least 1 more in time to bulb education. Maybe even 2.

But if we aren't putting Globe in MM, where will we put it? Obviously if we are trying to win by Dom, and we have one-fifth the production of the leader, we are going to need to whip/draft a Globe city every turn. I don't see a single other city with enough food to Globe.

I would think that any city with 2 fish resources would have enough food for the globe theather. Long term, for Dom victory, we've got a lot of options. We could buy stuff with US, or build workshops. However, I think the best option is to get the Kremlin and use Kremlin-assisted whipping.

Totally agree that Bureaucracy sucks on this map. Civil Service is not a priority, except to get to Liberalism. Nationalism is clearly the key civic for us along that line I would think.

Just so we're on the same page here- what do you want to do with nationalism? Drafting rifles is a strong possibility, but we're still a long way away from rifle tech. I'd like to get constitution and switch to representation, to double the research power of MM.

Any city near the happy cap I will whip a forge or harbor. Should we consider CHs at all? I assume Immortal maintenance costs get brutal.

Yeah, courthouses will help a lot, especially in those island cities.

As for culture flipping the barb city, if it doesn't fit our dotmap, shouldn't we rip it down and start settling south? And shouldn't we start settling south anyway?

I think it's in a decent location, but we can rip it down if you want. And we could also use a galley to start settling the SW of the continent right now. The SE is all jungle, and Ragnar is settling there anyway.

If I settle any more islands, I am thinking the small islands to the east of the big island would be the ticket. What do you think?

Sounds good. There's a whale out there which could be useful for happiness.

I am teching Literature, and then probably CS. Definitely doing the trade mission. That gold will fuel us towards Liberalism. After Liberalism/Nationalism, what are the proper tech options?

Gunpowder/Rifling/Astronomy and begin destroying?

Banking/Economics/Corporations/Sci Method/Biology/Medicine for disgusting Sid's Sushi builds (we'll have like 20 seafood by then probably).

good question. I'd say get constitution first, and then decide where to go from there. It might be best to just go directly for Communism, for the Kremlin and state property. If we went for rifling/astronomy immediately I'd be worried about our ability to pay for everything. Sid's Sushi would be fun for running huge numbers of specialists, though. We might actually find ourselves switching between free market and state property.

[Thoth]

Bureaucracy isn't quite as bad as you are making it out to be. With 4 foriegn, intercontinental trade routes MM will be pulling in a bucketload of commerce once it grows a bit and gets a harbour. CS is also worthwhile for the ability to chain irrigate.

Happiness can easily be controlled with HR + cheap warriors. It's not worth spamming them everywhere but geting MM up to size 15/16 is well worth the cost.

[Gaspar]

Just caught up here. Interesting reading, gents.

[Nakor]

I agree with Toth, CS isn't that bad and going for HR sounds like a good option as well afterwards before Const - Democracy.
I think we can go that route before going Military and hit Domination.

[luddite]

Yeah CS will help some, just not nearly as much as in most games.
We can certainly go for monarcy if necessary. But we can get MM up to 16 happiness just by hooking up whales, so getting optics is another possibility for happiness. Or build a half price temple and coloseum. Also, don't forget that the Indian Unique building is a jail that gives +2 happiness.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Umm, guys, we've been in HR for 20+ turns now. The first trade I made with Metal Casting I traded for Monarchy.

T116: Founded 1792 Ridgemont on the filler site. Gpt only goes down 1gpt. Can share pigs to grow. Scouting WB died to barb galley. Made this trade:

T119: Quad-whipped a forge at MM. With that much food, it can regrow to the happy cap in 4-5 turns. With the forge, we might consider stealing the marble mine, eventually building Globe, and just whipping/drafting the hell out of MM. Ready to load the second settler onto the galley at Bacardi next turn. Trireme due in two turns, and then back to WBs. I still think we should finish the library, and a forge will be useful there too. Workers are cottaging around Ssal and Ridgemont, and now chopping a granary at Ridgemont. Whipped WB at Knob Creek to take to Wild Turkey.

I adopted HR. Hinduism spread to us, but would put us against Ramesses and Ragnar, so I declined. We are Spiritual, so we can adopt if need be.

Report in-bound as soon as I get five minutes.

[Nakor]

Damn! Must have missed that...

[Gold Ergo Sum]

T140: Trade clams for wine with Charlemagne for +1 happy.

Trireme kills barb galley. Aesthetics in onto Literature. And our runaway is found:

Jesus, he is really far ahead. We might need to bring his ass down a peg quickly. OB w/ him--this gives us three +6 trade routes in the capital! He already has Literature and Drama, so getting TGL just got much tougher. KK declares war on Charlemagne. Hire some extra scientists into starvation to make sure we get Literature in one turn. Might whip TGL at a huge penalty. Trying to decide. Trade Aesthetics for Monotheism and Archery with KK. Not sure what we were doing with our GMerchant. It is super far away from landing in a spot for a trade mission, and appears to be headed to one of our ocean-locked small islands. I am confused.

T141: Quarry finished. TGL due in 16 turns by firing two scientists and working the hammers at MM. As soon as I can whip it, I will. Gotta beat Caesar. Granary finished in Wild Turkey, onto a LH. Bacardi working to pump out some WBs for new settlers.

T142: Fire all scientists at MM, hire one engineer and TGL is down to 13 turns. Growing at max speed so that I can whip this thing out ASAP. Right now, we have six available and it requires 10 pop. This may be really close. Sheep pastured at Jameson's, workers chopping the granary now. Granary finished at Pisang, onto a library.

T143: Caesar was in a golden age which just ended. Lets see what his stats look like now:

T144: Clam Juice onto CH. Hooch LH finishes onto CH.

T145: Fuck. Caesar finishes TGL. I could've had it in 1-2 turns. Cancel wheat deal with Ragnar to get 2 extra gold from the deal:

I also made this tech trade:

T146: Academy built with GScientist at MM. Next one due in 9 turns. Working 7 scientists, with max hammers for 2 turn Market and 12 turn NE, at -1 food due to unhealthy face.

T147: Trireme kills barb galley. Civil Service in. Revolt to Bureaucracy, which ups our tech rate at 100% research by 40 beakers due to the TR commerce in capital. The hammer will help get market, NE, harbor, and eventually university/Oxford faster. Onto Paper, which should be in soon.

T148: Jameson's finishes granary, onto LH. Pisang finishes library, onto CH.

T149: Hired Engineer instead of scientist in MM to shave 2 turns off NE and 1 turn off harbor. Paper due next turn. Can probably straight research Education, and then save our next GScientist to bulb Liberalism whenever we some AI gets Education. This is MM:

Right now, Caesar, the runaway AI doesn't have Philosophy or Civil Service, so we can probably get something pretty tasty with Lib. The closest AI to us is Ramesses, and he lacks Philosophy and Paper:

Some wars going on:

Found a new island in the SW with a trireme to explore:

Progress with exploring galley:

Demos:

Plan with the GMerchant is to go into Greek lands and use the roads there to walk to Caesar's lands, or even better, explore for a bit, find Ramesses borders for sweet trade routes (we don't have them yet), and then do the trade mission in Kyoto, the ToA city for the maximum possible gold. Profit. Great Merchant on a galley just off-screen in the NW, which might need to wait for the trireme escort (five turns behind) to safely reach Greece. Really, I messed this up because I couldn't figure out where Luddite was sending the GMerchant and so I turned it around. We won't run our trade mission for 15+ turns probably, but if we can find Ramesses and run it in Kyoto, it should've been worth it. If you wait for the trireme, after it escorts our galley, the trireme should go along the north coast of Greece's continent:

Once NE and harbor finishes in MM, we can do universities everywhere and then Oxford.

At some point, we'll want to go to Slavery, but we cannot stay there long, because it will kill our tech rate.

Stack of galley w/ two settlers, WB, and trireme is headed for the islands with the city sign.

SAVE: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25875988/SG4-Imm...dSwordSave

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I just realized that at some point we picked up TRs with Japan, because Kyoto shows up in the MM trade route list.

If it won't slow our GMerchant down too much, we should try to run that trade mission wherever we found his borders.