Permanent Alliances with the AI - a legitimate way to victory ?

[Imhotep]

Recently I found myself in some Monarch games where teaming up with an AI via Permanent Alliance seemed the only way to actually win the game. I'd like to hear your opinion about it - do you consider this a "real" win (besides from variants like Adventure 7 were it was intended to be so) ?

Imhotep

[Atlas]

Well I consider a "teamed" game (alla Adventure 7) different from a Permanent Alliance. But back to the point, I am not sure it is a real victory, it certainly constitutes some sort of diplomatic acumen, but I don't think that it is a real victory.


*Caveat- I have never played a game with Permanent Alliance enabled and thus don't know much about them. Someone out there convince it is legitamite !!!

[Rex Tyrannus]

I consider it legit because the AI uses it, when enabled. Late game, if you're behind and suddenly Roosey and Mansa team up on you, you're toast.

[pholkhero]

Immy~ I think it's a perfectly valid way to win ~ esp, as Rex points out, the AI can do it, too....you almost need a partner in that case.

the whole alliance system can set up a totally different dynamic late-game and perhaps would prevent a lot of late-game warmongering, esp if your AI opponents all have allies.

[Zalson]

You need another question:

YES! But I can never seem to actually get a PA :-/

[Chairman Kaga]

This thread does bring up the question....

Why are PAs disabled by default?

[ZerrorR]

For PA's there are numerous conditions.

i) You must not be first in the power graph.
ii) PA victim must not be first in the power graph.
iii) You and your PA victim must either:
a) share a Defensive pact for 40 turns
b) share a war against other civ for 40 turns
iv) That civ must consider you a friend (13 or more + on relationship)

Good thing with PA:
All your and your partner lands and populations count toward Dom limit
You gain all techs AI has, he gains yours
You need a resourse, he will give it to you (be careful, if that is the only oil he has, he won't be able to produce tanks)
You can improve his lands
:D

[Zalson]

For PA's there are numerous conditions.

i) You must not be first in the power graph.
ii) PA victim must not be first in the power graph.
iii) You and your PA victim must either:
a) share a Defensive pact for 40 turns
b) share a war against other civ for 40 turns
iv) That civ must consider you a friend (13 or more + on relationship)
:D

Er... where'd the numbers come in? Is this from your own experience? Cause I've seen Mansa Musa friendly at 10+. I'm not meaning to be contradictory, but I'd just like to know

[ZerrorR]

There are extensive guide on CivFanatics here

[Zalson]

Ah, I see. Thanks.