[SPOILERS - PBEM17] novice and spaceman - Suryavarman of India

[spacemanmf]

Save is heading to us shortly - feel free to grab it.

[novice]

T54 played.

We revolted to Representation, so not much to report. Our workboat has the target in sight:



Also, we don't have a trade connection with Rego, but we have trade routes with two of Rego's cities, Pindicator and Profane. So I assume neither is connected to Rego's capital.

[spacemanmf]

We revolted to Representation, so not much to report. Our workboat has the target in sight.

Go workboat!

Also, we don't have a trade connection with Rego, but we have trade routes with two of Rego's cities, Pindicator and Profane. So I assume neither is connected to Rego's capital.

So he accepted open borders then?


By the way, part of the reason I left the turn for you was having to manage all those workers with nothing to do! What did those little blighters get up to?

[spacemanmf]

Chat with Shoot:

20:42 me: hey
Shoot: Hey
me: space here
thanks for the email

[SNIP]

me: how's PBEM17 going?
20:53 from memory you have some chunkily sized cities?
Shoot: yeah, I definitely have had more vertical than horizontal growth at this point
20:54 I'm still two turns from getting my sixth city for instance
20:55 you guys have seemed to have a pretty balanced expansion yourself though...6 cities, two wonders, and an early workboat for trying for circumnavigation
me: that's not much behind out 6th
*our
yeah we have no trees now
that's our cost, which is perfectly manageable
Shoot: trees are better used early than late I always think
me: we felt we needed to do everything possible to deal with 3 x FIN + rego's scary combo
20:56 Shoot: well, GLH certainly makes up for fin on this map I suspect
me: yeah that was our thinking
Shoot: I'm surprised colossus hasn't fallen yet
me: well that it would allow us to compete
yeah i was chatting to rego about that
20:57 he was a bit cagey but is not in a rush
he's got it when he wants it basically
Shoot: was it rego or kyan who got the oracle?
me: i would imagine
rego, taking MC
that + copper + IND
Shoot: that's what I assumed
yeah, I kinda assumed whoever got the oracle had a lock on colossus, I've just been surprised they haven't finished it yet
20:58 me: rego's on 6 cities now i think - or will be v shortly
20:59 i guess he sacrificed a bit of growth for the oracle so is catching up before getting the colossus out
probably not working loads of coastal tiles yet
21:00 Shoot: yeah
I am kinda getting the sense that wonders aren't going to be that smart for me to go for
I strongly suspect darrell will go for the religious economy wonders (especially with Krill as a lurker)
21:01 me: yeah not many early wonders left
21:02 Shoot: I'm thinking I may make a small run at HG as hammans are nice anyway and the gold wouldn't be terrible if I were to miss it, but that may be the only one I shoot for
(keep that quiet obviously)
me: sure thing
we have no plans for that
that said, we have no plans for anything now
our (novice's) microplan runs out more or less now!
21:03 Shoot: well, that's about 50 turns longer than my micro plan ever went
me: yeah i've no appetite for that kind of thing either
i don't want to think how long novice spends doing them
21:04 Shoot: yeah, I know what you mean
me: anyway, we're coming up to the fun bit - where we can make decisions on the hoof
21:05 Shoot: yeah, I feel like my game may have been slightly hurt by it though
in part because I was busy with school/finals work and in part because PBEM 8 was at a much more interesting point, I didn't put in quite the energy I probably should have to planning ahead
21:06 oh well, I don't think I'm terribly behind (if at all), so it all worked out alright
21:08 me: nah, you're doing fine i think
Shoot: by the way, small question, but do you guys happen to know where horses are located? Without any AH food resources I haven't bothered to research it yet
me: we've got horses on our SW arm
quite far down
21:09 we haven't seen much of your land so not sure if we can see yours
Shoot: ok, so I should probably research that myself soon just to make sure I get my horses settled
21:10 me: yeah it could be an area of contention definitely
Shoot: I just wanted to check whether it was on the continent or on the arms/islands
me: i don't know about iron yet, though
Shoot: neither do I
21:11 I would hope after pbem 10 though people would learn not to risk having people not have iron with a water based map
me: you would hope - plako's a good map designer, though
and has done many
21:12 Shoot: yeah
me: it certainly has an intriguing design, this one
Shoot: yeah
I assume you guys have seen the center tile?
me: no
we've been wondering what's "out there"
the one between the 5 arms?
21:13 Shoot: to your SE there is a spot where 5 arms circle in
and then there is just a 1 tile island in the middle
21:14 me: ah yes - we've seen that from a screenshot from darrell
Shoot: yeah, I have a workboat in that area right now
21:15 certainly an interesting map design. Is the outer part mostly islands?
21:16 me: we haven't seen many actually
we're struggling to find extra settling sites
hence settling on that four tile island
Shoot: where exactly is that by the way?
me: north of your NW arm
actually a bit NE
21:17 Shoot: so relative to that wines say?
me: 8N 4E
was just looking at that
:-)
Shoot: wow, that must be some nasty maintenance costs
21:18 me: not settled it yet
hoping the intercontinental routes pay for that cost
21:19 Shoot: I'd hope so
me: there are some possibilities off our SW arm, but we haven't settled that arm at all yet
21:20 Shoot: yeah, I also haven't settled my SW arm yet, although it is all jungle so it's not quite as appealing
me: darrell has settled ours already...
to be fair, it swings close by him
we don't seem to have the best arrangement of land
21:21 Shoot: yeah, I met darrell at that city of his
21:23 me: we've still not met kyan
Shoot: neither have I, although according to darrell I should be meeting him soon
me: the toroidal nature of the map messes with my mind
21:24 Shoot: yeah, agreed
21:25 now that I've found the center tile in game I can kind of comprehend the directionality of it a bit better, but it's still odd
21:26 me: yeah
i think kyan has the jungle arm that goes NE of the centre tile?
21:27 Shoot: yeah, that's what it looks like
21:28 me: although more E than N since you are NNE of it?
Shoot: yeah, I've just kinda counted the arms
according to darrell, going clockwise from me it is me rego, kran, darrell, you
so his arm should just be the second clockwise from mine is what I'm going on
21:29 me: oh right ok
so it's sugar one going SE?
21:31 Shoot: I believe so
wow, there could be a stuningly interesting city on the center tile
21:32 me: ah ok - yeah i dug out your screenshots - i see it now
yeah about 7-8 food that it would get stolen from it
:-)
Shoot: exactly
I'm not cultural, so would never settle that
21:33 that and settling there would probably piss off everyone else in the game and be attackable by every other person in the game, haha
a bad mix there
me: heh, yeah it's all very close in this game
21:34 Shoot: which I think is probably good
having everyone on their own continents can run the risk of being somewhat boring
21:35 me: yeah we saw you had an axe so thought we had better have one too :-)
Shoot: haha
I'm just not allowed to build warriors anymore
me: ah yes you have deer
21:36 Shoot: a couple of them
me: -> hunting -> no warriors
Shoot: yeah, unforunately
me: that caught us out in PBEM13
21:37 Shoot: considering I'm only 2000 soldiers behind #1 with an army consisting of 1 axe, 1 spear and a couple warriors I kinda doubt we'll be seeing wars anytime soon
me: no indeed
Shoot: seems like everyone has oh about 1 MP unit per city and nothing more, haha
me: it's going to be a game-long balancing act
21:38 we seem really close to you and darrell
Shoot: yeah, but at least for the near to midterm, galley attacks simply cost too much to be worthwhile
yeah
me: unless they can be used strategically
but yeah diplomatic fallout too
Shoot: yeah, it would have to more of a sneak attack
21:39 but razing one city probably isn't worth the diplo fallout
me: no
Shoot: unless there are clear alliances that form I guess, but without tech trading I wonder how much that will occur
21:40 me: yeah i've not much experience of these things
21:41 there seem to be 5 strong teams in this game so i don't think there will be a single runaway
21:42 Shoot: yeah
21:43 I don't really have experience with diplo in a NTT game
me: right, i'm going to obey my no civ after 10pm curfew - good to chat
21:44 Shoot: ok cya. Good talking to you
me: bye

Plenty of map and metagame chat. One key bit of info is that Shoot is going for the Hanging Gardens. That is confidential.

[novice]

Chat with Rego. I gave away lots of free info since he's such a smooth-talker. Or maybe I was just pathetically grateful for the Open Borders which will hopefully land us circumnavigation.

23:13 Dan: hi
23:14 me: hi there!
novice here
Dan: incan workboat off the port arm!
me: oh? didn't notice
Dan: just got there this turn
you will probably see it when you get the save back
23:15 at least i think this is your left "arm"
me: if you've travelled NE from home
Dan: yeah
me: then it should be
so you want directions?
Dan: if you know where untis or borders of anyone else are
23:16 that would be helpful
me: thanks for OB, we have trade routes with Pindicator and Profane
but not the rest
Dan: ah
me: you need to hook up your cities
Dan: well they are hooked up
but you need a border expansion at pindicator
as there are 2 tiles of coast that aren't in our borders yet
and since you don't have them defogged
23:17 me: oh, that matters?
Dan: yeah they have to be in the borders of someone you're not at war with
or defogged by you
me: I see
so chop that terrace

Dan: heh
workin on it ;-)
hmm i guess i could also road to profane
23:18 me: So Profane, there the issue is that it's not hooked up?
Dan: yeah
it's on the east coast
but doesn't have a road to the rest of my citeis
as it was just founded recently
me: You went pretty fast from 4 to 7 cities...
Dan: yeah
me: in two turns I think
23:19 so, basically you want contacts?
Dan: yup that's how it ended up working out
me: with your boat?
Dan: what else would there be?
i mean if you've got wine or women....
me: circumnavigation, greener pastures, I don't know...
we've got wine
23:20 but haven't settled it
Dan: maybe a cash cow? :-)
me: heh
Dan: as for circumnav, sure we wouldn't mind it
and if our boat gets it then cool
but my suspicion is, just like the pyramids, it will be gone before we get around to it
(congrats btw)
23:21 me: thanks
Dan: TIMMMMMMMMMMMMBER
me: hope you didn't waste any hammers
lol
not much left of that now, I'm afraid
23:23 okay I think you want to avoid our north coast, just ocean there
if you go on the south side of our arm you can skip over to Darrell's continent
23:24 You'll probably need OB with him to get past him though
I think Shoot the Moon has a boat somewhere on Darrell's north coast as well, although it may have moved on
Dan: hmm
the problem is that we are already well on the north coast
23:25 me: oh you are?
Dan: before we knew it was your island
do you know where your gold tile is
me: where, related to landmarks?
Dan: (or at least one of your gold tiles)
me: heh
we only know of one
Dan: ok
our WB is 2S of htat
me: mined gold, right?
Dan: yes
me: and roaded
Dan: ye
23:26 me: okay well you'll simply have to go around, your on the shadow side
Dan: shadow side?
me: *you're
well, there's nothing to be seen there, just ocean
23:27 so you can follow our coast around, clockwise or ccw, it looks to be about the same distance
22 tiles cw until you meet StM
16 tiles ccw until you meet Darrell
23:28 Dan: wow we must have just missed darrell
have you done much exploring off your arm's west coast?
i.e. between our 2 nations that way?
23:29 me: did you come up along the arm with horse, cows and wine?
Dan: yes
me: well Darrell is about 5 tiles east of that arm's southern tip
Dan: man
i think we hit the southern tip
1-1-2 of the horse?
me: bad luck
Dan: yup
how it goes i guess
me: yes, that's the tip
23:30 we've explored our continent there but nothing offshore
is it close to you?
Dan: somewhat
there's at least one island there
23:31 me: I think everyone has a 4x4 tile island, Darrell's is just south of the aforementioned tip
yours is east of Profane I think
23:32 Dan: hmm
this one doesn't look like a 4x4 island
the western edge is definitely only 3 tiles N-S
looks lmore like a gun pointing east
though some of it is fogged
23:33 me: is that between us then?
Dan: yes
me: (geographically, I mean)
Dan: heh
yes
23:34 me: well we will be scouting the area soonish
naturally we're looking for potential offshore colonies
Dan: right
i'd imagine everyone is
me: Darrell founded one on our continent, the cheeky bastard
Dan: really?
me: yes
Dan: wow that is cheeky
23:35 how many cities do they have?
with krill on board it's probably like 10-15
me: 6
we have 6, StM has 5 (big ones) and you have 7
IIRC
Dan: so darrell is to your south
so he's probably to our SE
shoot is to your east
so he's probably to our west
23:36 ?
23:37 me: yeah maybe StM is more to your NW.
Dan: okay
me: I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this map
Dan: no doubt
me too
so where does that leave captain regular bts is tooooo boring?
to our north / south maybe?
23:38 me: I think he's to your SW
everybody is surrounded by everybody else
Dan: right
that's cool - that was one of my hopes when i laid out the map instructions
23:39 so how did darrell end up founding a city on your continent? did he not know it was "yours"
or did he do it just for the cheek factgor?
me: He claimed the land based on the fact that it was closer to him than to us
And he had a settler there before we had even scouted it
Dan: sounds like classic krill
me: Grabbed gems, dyes and clams
23:40 Dan: nice
me: luckily we had a second gems
but he took our dyes
Dan: jungle?
me: yes
Dan: we have a jungle gems / dyes site on our left arm
okay
me: Everybody does
(except us)
23:41 You seem to be rexing quite well, but be aware that your land is quite poachable
the map is designed that way
23:42 Dan: hmm i wonder if my offshore city is on someone else's arm
me: anyway, we have OB with Darrell now, ultimately that's more important to us in the short term than that jungle city
heh
where is it?
Dan: guess it woudl have to be kyans
to our north
23:43 me: jungle?
Dan: no
23:44 me: I don't see how it could be Kyan's
Dan: yeah
it doesn't really look "armish"
there's a lot of tundra on that continent
23:45 though i have been assuming there is toroidal wrap
me: have you counted your land tiles?
and multiplied by 5?
23:46 Dan: my total land tiles?
me: yeah
Dan: like controlled by me right now?
me: no, let me explain
if you take the number of tiles on your continent + "your" island(s)
and multiply by 5
23:47 and compare with the tile count in the score mouseover
there are 200 tiles missing
Dan: hmm
me: so that's no man's land up for grabs
sounds like you've found it, too
23:48 Dan: hmm
maybe?
23:49 me: well it's probably scattered around
Dan: yeah
me: but there's bound to be some filler no man's land here and there to make the map fit
Dan: right
23:51 me: food for thought.
Well, I need to call it a night
Dan: ok
nice chatting with you
me: likewise
ttyl

[spacemanmf]

You didn't give away loads of information really. Anyway, the save is in the inbox, unread and you're online... What gives?

[spacemanmf]

OK, consider this a "got it". If you had any plans for this turn, this is the time to tell me.

EDIT: how far are those SW workers roading? All the way to the wines city site?

EDIT: The last turn of the microplan has a couple of cities working scientists when this slows down the settler production. Is that what you want?

[novice]

EDIT: how far are those SW workers roading? All the way to the wines city site?

EDIT: The last turn of the microplan has a couple of cities working scientists when this slows down the settler production. Is that what you want?

All the way to the horse site. I guess we want scientists instead of mines at this point. But use your best judgement.

[spacemanmf]

All the way to the horse site. I guess we want scientists instead of mines at this point. But use your best judgement.

Ok, what's your thinking if it delays settlers?

Well, we can road to the wines site and (the) Capital finishing the settler in 3 turns will tie in nicely with that. Then another settler completes in Seaside which can go further to the horses site, by which time the workers will have roaded that far.

EDIT: So I think it makes sense to settle the cows site first - do we really think the horses site is at risk to be settled in the next 10 turns rather than the next 5?

[spacemanmf]

So close yet so far. I was hoping that there would be a route off the diagonal - but no.



A shot of the homelands. Currently working the plains hill mine in (the) Capital but not in Seaside.



Here are the demographics at 100% research.



I've dropped it to 70% research now, which still enables us to get Currency in 2 turns.