Urbania in Iceland - First warlords game

[Munterpipe]

You need a more complex WW model than that. There are a number of factors that should influence WW:

1. Just cause - if you get attacked then you should have a happiness bonus to represent the nation coming together (except perhaps for cities which want to join the motherland). Similarly if you backstab someone who has been an ally all game you should suffer more WW.

2. The civics you and the enemy are in - if you are running pacifism you get more. If the enemy is in slavery and you are emancipated then your population considers it humanitarian intervention. Also the opportunity for your population to express anti-war feelings is related to whether you have free speech or not.

3. Your war tactics - things like razing cities, pillaging towns and stealing workers should raise WW, wheras behaving more honourably should mean you retain support.

4. The era you are in. Put simply, the more time goes on, the more WW should become a factor. Wars in the medival ages won't get you as much WW than if you attack someone in the modern era.

Those were brilliant ideas! Especcially the first one!

Next time Alex backstabs me, even though he is FRIENDLY with me, he will at least suffer from a lot of WW, in lack of me having any significant army to punish him.

Then I'll convince Hatty to stop trading him any more of those Happy resources.

:Fire and smoke all over the Greek land:
Who's laughing NOW, traitor!

[Sullla]

Next time Alex backstabs me, even though he is FRIENDLY with me, he will at least suffer from a lot of WW, in lack of me having any significant army to punish him.

The AI will never attack you if you have "Friendly" relations (this holds true for every leader). But Alex will happily attack you at "Pleased", so be careful!

[Iustus]

I do not like that capturing cities (with no losses) adds war weariness. I understand the game reasons why it is there, but I would change it.

I would keep the same weariness for capturing a city, but it should (mostly?) go away as soon as that city goes out of revolt. If you raze the city, it would not go away (or go away slower). Having too much "We Long to Join the Motherland" could also contribute to overall war weariness, if you want to bring a bit more back.

For that matter, any cities in revolt (for any reason), should give war weariness I suppose.

Losing troops should increase WW, but winning battles, especially decisively, should decrease WW. It is easy to whip your population into supporting a winning war, especially when you are on the side of 'right', but once it seems you might be losing, then support dwindles.

But then perhaps I am getting a bit far from the game mechanic and what it is designed to do. Which is, what?

- make expansion by war have a penalty, to offset all the bonuses?
- discourge warmongering, which might otherwise become the best path to victory?
- help AIs determine when they are losing a war and ask for peace?

That is really the best way to find a good solution. What game purpose is WW solving and how could it be solved better with fewer negative side effects?

-Iustus

[darrelljs]

The AI will never attack you if you have "Friendly" relations (this holds true for every leader). But Alex will happily attack you at "Pleased", so be careful!

Alex will do it at Friendly (and with a Defensive Pact) as I found out in Epic V.

Darrell

[Sullla]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. I'm looking in the XML right now, and it clearly states that the probability of no war is 100% if Alex has Friendly relations with you:

- <NoWarAttitudeProb>
<AttitudeType>ATTITUDE_FRIENDLY</AttitudeType>
<iNoWarProb>100</iNoWarProb>

I'd be willing to bet just about anything that Alex dropped to Pleased relations before declaring war, even if it was only for a second.

[Hiapoe]

I do not like that capturing cities (with no losses) adds war weariness. I understand the game reasons why it is there, but I would change it.

I would keep the same weariness for capturing a city, but it should (mostly?) go away as soon as that city goes out of revolt. If you raze the city, it would not go away (or go away slower). Having too much "We Long to Join the Motherland" could also contribute to overall war weariness, if you want to bring a bit more back.

For that matter, any cities in revolt (for any reason), should give war weariness I suppose.

Losing troops should increase WW, but winning battles, especially decisively, should decrease WW. It is easy to whip your population into supporting a winning war, especially when you are on the side of 'right', but once it seems you might be losing, then support dwindles.

But then perhaps I am getting a bit far from the game mechanic and what it is designed to do. Which is, what?

- make expansion by war have a penalty, to offset all the bonuses?
- discourge warmongering, which might otherwise become the best path to victory?
- help AIs determine when they are losing a war and ask for peace?

That is really the best way to find a good solution. What game purpose is WW solving and how could it be solved better with fewer negative side effects?

-Iustus

Well... War weariness should always be there I think... Even if you're winning the war... I mean, if your country would be at war for decades, you wouldn't be happy about it either would you? Even if your country is 'winning'...

Maybe a more complex algorithm should be applied for calculating war weariness depending on:
- Time the war is taking
- Are you losing or winning
- Unit-loss
- Certain civics
-...

Well... I don't really know how complicated the algorithm is at the moment anyway...

[darrelljs]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. I'm looking in the XML right now, and it clearly states that the probability of no war is 100% if Alex has Friendly relations with you:

...

I'd be willing to bet just about anything that Alex dropped to Pleased relations before declaring war, even if it was only for a second.

My votes a bug somewhere else in the code

It is possible that Alex dropped to Pleased in my game, but that would mean that the thresholds for Pleased/Friendly are mutable. In my Epic V I got the end of open borders, end of defensive pact and war declaration all at once. I did an A/B comparison of the modifiers and the only change from the Friendly ones to the Pleased ones were 1) a large negative for the war, 2) the removal of the positives for defensive pact, etc.

Hmm...there is another possibility. He canceled the defensive pact and open borders, then dropped to Pleased, then declared war. However, he had a flotilla right off my borders. That would be some pretty sophisticated behavior...kind of like the big robot in The Incredibles shooting Buddy's remote control

Darrell