Need for Speed: Ichabod & Ravus chasing the Dream

[Ravus Sol]

Burter: He may be fast... but he's not faster then the fastest guy in the universe!
Jeice: okay mate, we need to talk. About this whole "fastest in the universe thing". First off, the captains got a higher power level then you.
Burter: yeah so?
Jeice: well then, correct me if i'm wrong, but a higher power level means he's faster yeah?
Burter: well, okay, maybe
Jeice: And lord Frieza's got a higher power level then all of us...
Burter: okay that's just not fair
Jeice: and if you think about it... Guldo can stop time...
Burter: ughh!
Jeice: So that technically makes him faster then-
Burter: No NO NO! I am NOT slower then F***ing Guldo!
Jeice: Burter Calm down.



Lesson: Never question someone's speed

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="7"]THE SPEED PLAN[/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]The Alliance of Horsemen and Centaurs[/SIZE]



This is the team-up Ichbod and Myself are hoping for! The easy team up nature of both these teams unleashing Horse Archers and Centaur Archers simultaneously would be magnificent.

[SIZE="4"]Contents needed:[/SIZE]

• Overview of Game details
  
• Team up Nations available when others have picked
  
• Lost team up Chances
  
• Plan for the Team
  
• Analysis of Rivals, Nations and Players
  
• Religions available
  

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="4"]Game Details [/SIZE]

The game details were hashed out in the Tech Thread;

Format - PBEM
Always war? - Yes
Leaders/Civs - Restricted, No Auric/Illian
Allow duplicate civs/leaders (but not on the same team) - No
Speed normal/quick - Quick
Acheron - No
Orthus - No
Barbs - normal
Compact Enforced - No
Hybie/Bassie - AI if summoned
Religions - No restrictions
Map - Land map; lush map; sufficient water to make lanun/OO viable
Difficulty - Immortal
Leader Pick Order - Snake pick
Graves/Dungeons/Huts - Yes
Unique features - Yes, power 3 not in settling area

[SIZE="4"]Teams [/SIZE]
darreljs & Ilios (FFH PBEM 2)
Thoth & Mr. Yellow (FFH PBEM 3)
Ichabod & Ravus Sol (FFH PBEM 4)
Jkaen & Mardoc (FFH PBEM 6)

The Restrictions for the Illians make sense. It does stop the repeat of an Unholy alliance between Fire and Ice with the Clan and Illians curbstomping everyone.

The lack of extra barbarians makes the Barbarian leaders less tempting. The map layout seems like it is heading towards a lush-land with each team claiming a corner. Which without a worldwrap means we will have a nice safe back to the empire.

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="7"]Kuriotate Potential Partners[/SIZE]

While our hearts are initially set on the Hippus we picked the Kuriotates because they are a good nation to team up with. A powerful economy. Adaptive leader. Fast mid game units. Late game hero's.

Here is some summeries on the potential Partners of young Cardith Lorda along with the Ratings and Reasons for each. If anyone has any other thoughts on these or other nations chime in.

[SIZE="4"]Hippus[/SIZE]
The Hippus and the Kuriotate have the same tech path, combined with the Kuriotate economy power and these two nations can get to dangerous units VERY quickly. Test games can have Mobile Archers for each nation out around turn 50. Which even if you can't KILL someone means you can choke them for all they are worth if they annoy you.

End game they only need one tech to open up Knights and BOTH their unique hero's. This could be teched to or grabbed with a Divination Tower. To become really deadly they just need a Collateral Damage unit that can keep up. The Empyrean seems like a solid choice for Chalid. I believe he can get both the mobility promotions to let him keep up with the horsemen while raining fire on everyone.

Ravus Rating = *****
Reason = The Hippus hold the empire while the Kuriotate city states provide the economy. Their combined military would be insanely fast and Hippus Rathas combined with Centaur Archers would kill everything mid game.

[SIZE="4"]Elves[/SIZE]
[STRIKE]The first thing to remember is that the Elvish workers can build INSIDE FORESTS in BOTH allied members. Kuriotates with Ancient Forest Enclaves? BROKEN.

VERY BROKEN.[/STRIKE] HAS SINCE BEEN PROVEN WRONG. WHILE THE ELVISH WORKERS SAY THEY CAN BUILD WITHOUT DESTORYING FORESTS IN ALLIED LANDS THIS IS FALSE AS THE FOREST STILL ENDS UP DESTORYED AFTER THE IMPROVEMENT IS BUILT. THUS THIS TEAM UP HAS LESS POWER.

[STRIKE]Ancient Forest Enclave = 2/1/5
And that's before taxation, financial bonuses and starting tile type (grassland/plains)! With both on a grassland you have a 4 food, 1 production, 7 commerce tile.
If it hurts to look at that amount of tile goodness then don't worry. It only means you are sane.

Combining the Elvish and Kuriotate Economy is powerful. It will also make you a target from every nation near you to be rushed. Pulling of this long term game would take skill and finesse. Most of your game would depend on the Elvish partner chosen.[/STRIKE]

Dark Elves
have Raider which is good for end game. They also have good Mages which can be grown over time. Their power comes from the Recon line being more powerful. This is good as the Recon units can start to keep up with the Centaur Archers if they take a few mobility promotions. It could also mean we finally get to see Assassins used well. Centaur Archers and Assassins makes a very good combination.

Light Elves
The light elves are useful because they get more out of Archery which is on the Centaur tech path. The Spiritual leader can also spam priests which can take over blooming duty in Kuriotate lands more easily.

As the Ljosalfar would spread far and wide and hopefully encircle the Kuriotates their world spell that summons treants would be very powerful.

Unfortunatly while the light elves help the Centaur economy more easily they don't mesh as well in terms of military. This team might be best to play defensivly with powerful Centaur Archers and Elfish units and try a peaceful victory.

Ravus Rating = **** (REVISED RATING = ***)
Reason = An arguement could be made for either dark or light elves but for the most part these nations would be chosen to combine the two best economies in the game together.

[SIZE="4"]Calabim [/SIZE]
It is quite obvious that due to our going first and last in the nation choice, now that we have chosen we are unlikely to get the Vampires.

The Vampires keep up with Centaur Archers natural 3 movement via a promotion and haste. They then spam summons to weaken the enemy before moving in for the kill. This would be a powerful team up but the Vampires would be very defensless early on.

Ravus Rating = ***
Rason = Unlikely to get the option and it seems... lacking in flavour.


[SIZE="4"]The Orc Clan of Burning Embers[/SIZE]
The Orcs have a few things going for them... Enough that I suspect they will be snapped up before we could choose them.

Their peace with barbarians extends to their ally. The Warrens building produces double units. They are definatly useful. For the Kuriotates this is emplified. The Kuriotates can only have a few city states and thus loose out on production power. The Clan could make up for this with their double unit creating cities. The Friends with barbarians trick could allow easy expansion and useful end game tricks but it's the Warrens that make them tempting for Kuriotates.

The flaw is that the Orcs have no natural unit to use to boost the Kuriotate Centaur Archer Army. In fact they are blocked from creating Knights and Horse Archers! Meaning that a Orc reserve force would have to be made up of Chariots or Ratha. While still doable it is an annoying side trek.

The Orcs also have no starting tech and a handicap to their economy with teching.

Ravus Rating = **
Reason = While they could merge well with the Warrens I don't feel it is worth the negatives for the pay off. Also the only Orc leader worthy in my eyes is Jonas Endain who will probably be snapped up.

It should still be listed for it's choice

[SIZE="4"]Bannor[/SIZE]
The Ultimate EMPIRE nation. With an allways war game they can constantly run crusade. If they go Order Religion then they can get down to no city maintenance. This makes them a wonderful foil to the small city state kuriotates.

The Bannor Get benifits from going Order. While the Kuriotates can get insane bonuses from going Ashen Veil. Normally worshipping the Demon Religion can bring negatives. But with a Order nation lowering the AC and surrounding the Kuriotate city states so that no Hell Terrain can enter we can nip that in the bud. This can be a wonderful Religious team up.

The only problem is that military wise the Bannor run a Melee army. With melee units spawning from towns naturally. This could be used as back line defenders while the nation builds Horse Archers to support the Centaurs.

Ravus Rating = ****
Reason = We have a high probablity of getting this nation and it's Empire status meshes well. The Melee units can sit at home on defense while the Horse Units run Rampent. It is in fact similar to the Hippus choice but the Bannor can more financially hold an empire together and defend it instead of being offensive.

[SIZE="4"]Sheaim[/SIZE]
Why the Sheaim? That's the question you are thinking... They certainly don't seem to go well together with the Kuriotates. But they have some fun quirky synchronization.

Early game Pyre Zombies can be used as quick weakening units for the Centaur Archers to mop up. Mid game their Summoning Mages can spam enough summons to act as a defense screen so that rivals can't manouver behind the Centaur Archers. End game, they have Dragons.

So far Dragons have not been used much in FFH PBEMs. Both Kuriotate and Sheaim have one each. The Golden and Black Dragons. Normally games heat up into warfare before they get into play. But in this game Teching power is higher then usual. Also The combined nature of the allies means they may be able to go for a double Tower of Divination slingshot, one each, and the dark grimore as well for 3 quick techs.

Grabbing Mythril working, Theology and then Divine Essence could change the game. Suddenly all units have Mythril weapons, 4th tier priests are avilable, Immortal champion can be promoted, both of these nations have a kick ass Dragon on the map AND there is a ritual unlocked to make all units have a 1 use immortality promotion! (I assume this can only be used with one nation?) By my calculations you could pull this off around turn 120. Probably before this if you tried.

Ravus Rating = *****
Reason = Any flaws in this plan can be hand waved because of the sheer awesomness of getting 2 Dragons into the game at the same time. Playing the Light and Dark Dragon Lords would be oh so satisfying

[Brian Shanahan]

Think I'll stop here (and with Ichabod if he has his own thread). The Double Dragon ROFLstomp seems like some fun.

[Ravus Sol]

Think I'll stop here (and with Ichabod if he has his own thread). The Double Dragon ROFLstomp seems like some fun.

Yeah the Double Dragon Plan is awesome in it's curbstomp power. But it's a long shot so we are still setting our hearts on Kuriotate/Hippus

I think we are having the same thread but Ichabod is a little Ill at the moment.

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="4"]Rival Overview[/SIZE]

Ichabod & Ravus Sol
Cardith Lorda of the Kuriotates
-

We have a lot of options available to us. We have our hearts set on the Hippus, Ichabod also mentioned an idea of going for the Elohim for two Phi leaders and a Alter Victory rush. Definatly more logical then my Double Dragon idea.

I personally would prefer Rhoanna as the Hippus leader. Better for a Empire then a Rush and I feel this would better Compliment the Kuriotate City states.

Basic Plan is Horse/Centaur Archer rush followed by Guild/Ride of the Nine and a rush for Knight tech.

Jkaen & Mardoc
Flauros of the Calabim
Varn Gosam of the Malakim

This was an obvious combo and one that I also thought up with while pondering combination.

Varn gets the most potential from Aristofarms Economy and gets a lot of Priests via the world spell. Vampire Flaouros can also run a Aristofarm economy and gets Vampires soon after and can give them exp with his worldspell.

These seem like they will be our biggest threat.

Spiritual Priests and Mobility Vampires get 2 movement, 3 with Haste. Varn Provides the priests (most likely Way of the Leaves for more summons or Ashen veil for collateral) while Flauros provides the Hard Hitting Vampires. With both of them having a strong economy they are a BIG threat.

First thoughts are hoping that we can get to Movable Archers before they get to Priesthood and Vampires. Them having to go for two separate techs should mean we have a bigger advantage. Plus we can aim for a quicker more powerful unit in the knights to gain a better advantage.

I do think we need to get Sorcery and do a Tower of Divination Slingshot. It might be quicker or slower but it will also allow Mealstrom Mages and against an army as powerful as this I think we need some collateral.

While I would prefer Rhoanna for the Empire maintaince (fin/exp) seeing a enemy like this makes me think the better military choice of Tasunke might also be better... I suppose however that Cardith Lorda can merely Change to Raiders alone later on. We only need a small Raider force to THREATEN. Yes for better or worse I still support Rhoanna.

When Ichabod gets back to me in Email or PM we will make our choice.

Thoth & Mr. Yellow
Sheelba of the Clan of Embers
Dain the Caswallan of the Amurites

This doesn't seem like a STRONG combination... Aggressive and Organised Orc leader and a Arcane and Phi Amurite leader.

I feel that Amurites would be better teamed up with Sheaim, Balseraph or if you did pick the orcs pick Jonas Endain. Priests given spells by the Amurites can upgrade to Mage level spells. Jonas's ability to Spam Priests would be powerful if they were all multi-classed into mages.

The most viable tactic I can see in this regard is the Orcs Supplying the Army and Letting them all learn level 1 spells... An army all given Death I could Spam enough Skelton-pults to kill anything.

But I feel like I must be missing something... Some quirk or piece of leverage that has escaped my gaze...

Oh wait.

All Evil units with the ability to use spells become manes upon death. Orcs give friends with Barbs and thus demons. The ability to spam units, all of which when killed give manes to demons could be powerful beyond belief. Maybe we are looking at a Team Apocalypse scenario? One a bit different from what I am used too...

Ichabod I would love your input on this team when you have the chance. We'll go over the teams more when we have time.

darreljs & Ilios
Arendel Phaedra of the Ljosalfar
Kandros Fir of the Khazad

This struck me as an odd team up initially. Elves and Dwarves? How strange... But then if you remember that Elves can spread their forest economy into oter lands...

That means the Financial dwarf can get his towns built in forests by elven workers and his mines built on forested hills. If you do this and then run Arete after they have upgraded to Ancient Forests then you get some pretty productive cities. Combined with the Khazad speciality of getting more production and happiness from money and you get some HIGHLY productive cities.

Economy wise these two appear golden. However I feel they will work best on the defensive. They lack manoeuvrability. Especially compared to a horse or Centaur nation. We need to get some collateral units I think just incase they come at us with a stack of doom. Iron Elvish Longbow units are hard to displace. Especially when backed up by Dwarf Champions and Trebuchet's.

[Brian Shanahan]

My personal thoughts (seeing as I decided to ded-lurk):


Flauros/Varn

Strong choices both, as can be seen from previous PBEMs. If going after them though I'd rather you cripple/kill the vamps before focusing on the religious fanatics. Vampires are nigh on unstoppable given the right conditions (i.e. death nodes for the spectres), but, while strong, the Malakim can be taken down with patience and a proper strategy.

I haven't seen much of Jkaen in the games (I believe he's playing in six, well I'm sure he's in six but how much playing is he doing?). Mardoc I'm seeing more of, and he's pretty strong but sometimes indecisive and lacking in strategic thinking.

Strong civ combination and should be two at the very minimum decent players. Threat rating is medium high to high (if you can distract them good).

Sheelba & Dain

Yes it's a strange one, on the one had you've an early civ which peters out while on the other hand you've a late civ which can be taken early (and quite easily too). Team Apocalypse scenario is a bit iffy IMO, unless one of them is going to jump ship and join Hyborem. Most games I've seen him as computer he's either fish bait or sits around scratching his rear with his axe.

Players: Thoth is strong, Yellow is weak. If Thoth is doing the most of the running strategically you could be looking at a very strong opponent, if it's Mr. Yellow they'll be all over the place.

Threat rating is low to medium high. If they get their act together and have a comprehensive plan it could work. If not they're too disjointed to come together. Yeah it's pretty wide but it could really swing here.

Arendel & Kandros

Two strong tech and defensive civs, watch out for a tower or Altar victory here. They'll be hard to crack but will find it very hard if someone starts snowballing with regards to conquest.

Threat rating is low medium to medium. They're two defensive civs who bloom later in the game. Kandros could go with an Iron Golem attack later but probably too late. Arendel could go with a Gilden attack early but it's not the hardest to defend against (especially without siege). If you hurt them early they will be out of the game, and easy pickings later.


Hippus leader

I'm actually favouring Tasunke here. OK he'll never be contributing a whole lot to the economic/tech side to the game. But if there's a large sized map (not sure of the settings), PB back in PBEM 1 has shown that economically Cardith is at least a match for any civ, and better than most in that department. His weakness will be production.

Having Raiders out the gate will allow you to pick and choose your targets a bit more, and cripple the most dangerous enemies earlier (e.g. if ye start next to Thoth/Yellow, then an earlyish cripple of Thoth will be enough to finish those two from the running IMO).

General thoughts
"You're better off hanging together than being hanged seperately".
I believe this game will be down to who cooperates the best, and who divides the team responsibilities the most sensibly. Ye need to be able to figure out who should do what, and be able to trust the other partner in his job. Discussion is also imperative and ye need to be open about everything. Plan early and effectively, but still be open to changes and swings in the plan.


Hopefully I've said something useful there, and if not at least something entertaining.

[Sciz]

Kandros could go with an Iron Golem attack later but probably too late.

Kandros does not have golems.

[Brian Shanahan]

Kandros does not have golems.

Yeah I always mix up my dwarfs, so he's the one with the uber-siege. Well even better then.