[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[Lord Parkin]

No worries, glad to be able to help out. Will let you know if I'm ever in need of a sub, although I should be good for as long as I can forsee.

[Lord Parkin]

Doesn't seem like the save has advanced at all since I sent it to Rego a few days back, so I sent the following brief explanatory message to Darrelljs/Krill to wrap things up:

Hi Krill/Darrell,

Kyan's back now so he'll be playing the turns and doing the diplo from now on. Just letting you know that I held off on the Horse for Iron trade you proposed because it came out of the blue and I was waiting to hear from Kyan about it. If you re-propose it when you next get the save, then Kyan can make a decision on it (or he can re-propose it to you on his turn).

All the best,
Lord Parkin

Oh, there was also a tiny bit of diplo with Rego while you were away, all just a few sentences in chat. Main thing was that he was mentioning about founding a city on an island north of that sugar on your northern peninsula. I told him I wasn't sure about what you thought about that, and he said he thought it would be okay so went ahead with it.

That's about it diplo-wise, as I recall.

[oledavy]

For anyone lurking this is OleDavy (also my first post on RB )

I officially took over the Dutch from Kyan earlier today and just finished turn 82. I am a complete n00b in the ways of Civilization IV PBEM so would appreciate any advice those of you out there have to offer me. I can grow a civilization pretty efficiently, but am weak at tactical military micro (fortunately since this is a continents map, the playing field is leveled slightly).

Anyway, enough with my jabbering, onto the update for anyone out there who would is interested.

First off, I renamed the cities with a silly Templar naming theme :D (from the Apolyton Demogame) I know they never actually got out to 15 cities, but if by some act of god they had, I imagine they would have named them after more cities in the holy land. I'm apologize to anyone out there who liked the Dwarven Naming Theme, it was just one I couldn't get into.

So yes, we are now the Knights Templar

Hoping I don't botch this game as badly as they did theirs.

Turn 82 passed without any hooplah, I adjusted several of Kyan's builds from forges to lighthouses, and continued the buildfest. I added three specialists (2S, 1E) to Orammar...I mean Jerusalem, to churn out either a GE or GS in 15 turns. Could use the extra hammers, and could put either GP to good use

In other news Judaism spread to our lands, one of our island cities to the southwest that I renamed Beruit. This is bad news, Kyan explained that Rego was currently bargaining with him to spread Judaism to our lands to fuel a shrine. Rego is supposedly completing the Apostolic Palace. I'm not sure if I want to throw in with Judaism or not though, and certainly do not want to spread it without a least a fraction of the profits from the future shrine. At any rate, I opted not to convert until Rego responded to my initial diplomatic communique (in the next post).

I pushed up beakers to get feudalism in one turn. After that I'll save for a bit then burn that gold into Civil Service. I'm not sure what next, probably calender. Thoughts anyone?

[oledavy]

I sent off hails to the other four teams in the game, all were basically the same except for this one to Darrelljs.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Salutations Darrelljs of Egypt!

Kyan has stepped down as leader of the Dutch in PBEM #17 and I will be heading up the Civ from this point onward. I understand our two civilizations have been on good terms and hope that this can continue in the future. Coming in at this point in the game, I’m still trying to get everything sorted out. So, if you’ll bear with me, a few questions:

• How would you like to be addressed?
• What email address can I reach you at for diplomatic communiqués?
• Do you have a skype?
• What time zone do you live in?
• What times are you generally available to chat?

Just to make sure we’re on the same page. Kyan has informed me that we have an NAP lasting until turn 120. Can you confirm this? Are there any specific terms to it? Do we have any other outstanding agreements that I am unaware of?

I check this email address regularly if you need to get in touch with me (davidharris93@gmail.com) and am available to chat. I also have a skype, username: oledavy.

I am in Louisiana so I am GMT–6. I am generally online in the early mornings and evenings if you need to speak with me.

One final matter to discuss. I understand Novice and Spaceman have landed the Great Lighthouse AND the Pyramids. With the lush settings and no tech trading, representation-powered specialist could push them into a commanding lead mid-game, as I’m sure you’re already aware. Do you have any plans for…rectifying this situation at the moment? Does the possibility of a joint military action at some point in the future appeal to you at all?

I eagerly await your response and anticipate many years of profitable exchanges between our two great civilizations.

Regards,
David

P.S. – I understand Krill is ded-lurking for your team. Please give him my regards ☺

[/COLOR]

Kyan explained that our civ and Darreljs has enjoyed friendly relations, and I wanted to test the waters. NoSpace is the clear runaway so far in this game, and the long-term ramifications of representation-powered specialists on a lush map make me shudder. Furthermore, as the guy in second place with the biggest crop yield, I would prefer to keep a low profile by pointing the other teams at someone else, and by constructing the GL, Nospace did most of the job for me

With bureaucracy coming online soon, I like the idea of a joint military action featuring Templar Amphibious Macemen to bring down the score leader a notch. So, we'll see where this goes with Darrelljs, if it interests him at all. Am I being too forthcoming for just jumping into the game?

[Commodore]

Forthcoming is probably the best way to go. I'm sure everyone is going to be really interested in what your plans and intentions are. You could be peacefully trying for time victory and yet still regarded as a lose canon just because they don't know you.

[oledavy]

Diplomacy

Darrelljs - I talked to Darrelljs vs. gmail chat. I discussed the possibility of a using my GP due in 15 turns to revolt into vassalage and quickly crank out an offensive force before switching back into bureacracy. He then killed all my notions by informing me that NoSpace has macemen, crossbowmen and the cirumnavigation bonus However, he does want to continue discussion of this at some point in the future. Overall I feel I can trust Darrelljs, and want to mantain the alliance Kyan forged with him. We agreed to exchange screenshots of our empires.

Rego - Upon jumping in game, I noticed rego has two spare axemen in one of this border cities and could declare war and in two turns move to take out the undefended city of Alexandria, using a galley in the fog. However, his email said he wants to renew our open borders agreement due to expire on turn 92. I think I will take him up on this. I don't really trust Rego though, I've seen his double-dealing diplomacy at work. He wants to spread judaism to me and says he's completing the Apostolic Palace in a few turns. So, he doesn't have visibility on Beruit and doesn't know that I have it. I'm unsure of whether or not to tell him that I do. My hammer poor land could definitely utilize a priest economy though. I could try to run for the University of Sankore or the Spiral Minaret and compound the benefit. I will continue to talk terms with Rego regarding it.

NoSpace - Gave a very lukewarm response with a reference to the "Great Dogpile Backstab Debacle." I don't think I will pursue further contacts with this team. I'm going to be gunning for them soon enough, and do not want to be seen as duplicitous.

Shoot the Moon - Gave me a very friendly response. Discussed the possibility of a joint action against India. They are very interested in the idea. However, right now they are trying to rectify their lack of iron by retaking their source from India as soon as the peace treaty runs out! Apparentally Darrelljs took India's other source, so if they succeed India will be in a very bad place. They are about to finish Machinery, and we discussed what he would do in the event of an Indian counter-attack. I offered to make my source of iron available for him to whip out crossbows, which he said he will take. The final thing we discussed was negotiating a deal for him spreading Buddhism to me. I revealed the Rego was about to finish the Apostolic Palace and was offering to spread Judaism to me, so that unless I ran free religion I really had no incentive to take Buddhism. We eventually agreed to a deal in which he would deliver a missionary to Edessa (southeastern island city) I would spread it, while I'm spreading it he pays be 1 gpt per city that has buddhism, and after I spread it to my 16th city, it switched to a rate of 1gpt per three cities of mine, rounding down. As part of the agreement, I promised not to drag out spreading it around.

So yeah, more opening diplomacy. I feel like I maybe didn't play it hard enough for my Buddhism deal - that I could have charged him significantly more. That this will benefit him much more in the end than it does me - at least until the late game when I implement free religion. What can I say, I'm too agreeable. Does anyone else think the Buddhism deal was a little light or am I concerned over nothing.

On a side note, can anyone guide me through how to post screenshots? A noob question I know, but I am confused on how to do it.

[Kyan]

For images, i use photobucket but it's up to you. There are a few other choices. Photobucket is free and dead easy to use. Once you've registered and logged in, upload a picture and it gives you an 'IMG' link. Click this and it copies, then paste that into the thread.

The buddhism deal is the same as the one i proposed with Rego for Judaism, 'cept judaism would also get the hammers from Apostolic. I think you're going too cheap personally.

[oledavy]

Okay, despite my technical ineptness, with the help of Darrelljs and Kyan I have figured out how to upload screenshots. So here's a couple for those of you that following this thread



Can Rego see Alexandria from T-Hawk? I don't believe so but am slightly concerned since there are no defenders in Alexandria, and two units he could boat there in two turns from a galley 1 NW or 1N of T-Hawk. He has stated he's going to want to extend our NAP though (runs to turn 92).



Our new Jewish city. I think I will not tell Rego we have it and save a few hammers on a missionary Is it too early to be dishonest with someone?



Jerusalem configured to produced a GS or GE in 15 turns. Not totally sure what I will use it for. Golden age to run vassalage? Sub-optimal use of a GS or a precious GE I know, but would be really useful to avoid some painful turns in anarchy.

[oledavy]

Yeah..maybe I'm a little update happy. There is just a lot transpiring diplomacy-wise lately.

So in the grand tradition of the Knights Templar, I have made what I believe in hindsight may have been a very weedy diplomatic move.

I had the option to broker a deal with either Shoot or Rego to have them spread either Buddhism or Judaism respectively to my lands. The big difference? Rego is about to build the Apostolic Palace, making a priest economy an attractive option. However, I instead brokered a deal with Shoot to spread Buddhism to me under the following terms.

- He spreads buddhism to Edessa
- I spread it to the rest of my cities (16*26 = 416 hammers)
- While I'm spreading it, he pays me 1GPT per city with Buddhism (minus Edessa) appx 500 gold in my estimation.
- I don't milk the time to spread it (I told him ~30 turns after receiving it)
- After the expansion finished, he gives me 1 gold per 3 cities with Buddhism, rounding down (5 gpt to his 16 gpt plus modifiers)

I feel like I could have probably asked for a little more. I'm just not very forceful when it comes to dealing with people, and am generally an agreeable person - the main reason I accepted this deal outright rather than putting him off and talking to Rego first.

Of course, I could spread both religions, but that would probably be even more of a move.

However, was this necesarily a bad move?

I give up the hammers. These would be really useful in my production poor cities. However, I really had no intention of building these buildings otherwise. My plan has been to continue other infrastructure builds before shifting into a gradual military build-up. I have so many luxuries that happiness is not an issue (no need for temples for right now). Being creative I have no need for more culture. The only effect I miss out on is the 10% science from monastaries from not spamming them everywhere.

Here it was either economically support and cuddle up to Shoot or Rego. I would rather pursue closer relations with Shoot, frankly. We're going after a common enemy soon, he's lower in score than Rego, and he seems like a trustworthy guy from our conversations. Rego, as I've already mentioned, I'm innately distrustful of him after seeing his diplomacy in other games. So... time will tell, but I feel like I'll be fighting Rego before and if I have to fight Shoot (knock on wood).

So, if anyone's reading, tell me. Was it a good or bad move to go with Buddhism? What would you have done? Would like to come away from this game at least having learned something

[T-hawk]

Can Rego see Alexandria from T-Hawk?

Yes... well not from the city itself, but from the water tile 2N of Alexandria. A water tile can see a land tile over an intervening water tile. The land tile "sticks out" the same way a hill does for a unit on flatland looking past a flatland square.

So, if anyone's reading, tell me. Was it a good or bad move to go with Buddhism? What would you have done? Would like to come away from this game at least having learned something

Looks like a pretty good deal to me, getting paid to spread a religion around. Do you have a religious civic or a plan to get one? That +25% to buildings or +2 XP is most of the upside of having a religion in MP.

The AP only matters if you're going to start building temples or monasteries of that religion, or if you want to try to participate in and influence AP votes.