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Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
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Werewolf 7 game thread
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Looking at my tally, the previous one was wrong vis-a-vis Catwalk, Injera, and where each is voting. This should be correct.
Day 2 Lynch Tally 3v: Erebus (Zakalwe, Catwalk, Serdoa) 2v: Scooter (MNG, Meiz, Serdoa) 2v: JKaen (Erebus, Scooter) 1v: Ichabod (Gaspar) 1v: Zakalwe (Injera) History:
@ Meiz
My vote for TT on day 1 was aimed at shaking the tree and seeing what fell out. Uberfish was going to be the lynch 9/10 here at RB I think with his gambit barring a wolf royally screwing up. So after getting a satisfactory response from TT, I move to Uberfish for the end of the day. Was secretly hoping for something more from Uberfish when his vote total went to 8 or 9 (majority and guaranteed lynch) but he just kept on his "you're all fools" line which didn't help at all.
@ Ichabod
I answered your mayor-vote and quietness questions here in Post 252 Quote:I prefer Gaspar as mayor over Lewwyn, I don't want to split the votes between Gaspar and Serdoa to give Lewwyn the mayorship. I knew from previous games that Gaspar's vote on me was just fishing for a response and he'll move on after I've addressed his questions. Therefore, I can still vote my preference for Mayor without leading to my own lynch.
Vote-wise for now I want to put my vote on JKaen. In WW5, we let Pling get away with too many excuses about being unavailable to play, and I don't want to repeat the mistake.
JKaen, what do you think of all this? Ichabod Wrote:What made you change your mind to not suspect and then suspect scooter again?The bandwagon comment was half joke (I'm quite known to bandwagon) / half serious. I had small doubts on scooters low activity, but nothing concrete. Part of me wanted to jump in for pressure and to make him talk, but I was already voting my prime suspect TT. On post 218 I still did not have anything big against scooter (I had only re-read to page 15). Today I managed to read the whole thread second time and scooter jumped out the most.
Ok I'm back so lets see what I can contribute.
One thing I want to counter is Serdoa's suggestion of voting the 5 least active players one-by-one. It could make a point if these people were purposely keeping quiet and could contribute more, but with people like myself and Jkaen we can only do so much with the time we have. In my only other WW game, I was essentially saved and the game won partially because of one of the quietest players (Cull - though Square Leg was also critical!). Just because they can only contribute every so often and are quiet doesn't mean they are always the best people to lynch. I actually like only having a certain time where I can play and contribute as I don't just spend the day logging in continually as it can be pretty 'crazy-making'! More once I've finished reading.
"You want to take my city of Troll%ng? Go ahead and try."
I still think Ichabod is too quiet for my tastes but I can see nobody is very interested in that. So I have to say Catwalk seems to be trying really hard to chum up with zakalwe, even leaping to his defense virtually unprompted. I recognize this behavior from doing it myself in previous games when I played wolf.
Care to explain why you think you need to carry zak's water for him, Catwalk?
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
zakalwe Wrote:Not really, I just wanted to get my initial response to you out, before turning to new theories. It's early morning here, and I was being distracted by my son. He is not very articulate, but he has no problems getting his points across. Kind of the opposite of you, in that sense. Cute. Very cute. :neenernee I got a chuckle out of it, if only because it's not that far off. Thanks. Gaspar Wrote:Other than that, I think there's a lot of low content or low signal-to-noise ratio players. The thing that's getting me about you this game, Gaspar, is this is exactly how you come across (emphasis mine). Then you follow it up with a vote on Ichabod, whom to me has been as helpful as ever? I gotta say I expect better of you. I don't know how you've played in the last few WW games, but I remember your play from WW2. You were solid back then, even if your methods were poorly understood (I gave you way more trust and leeway back then than anyone else, and it worked out for the best). I know you play your cards close to the chest, but that's now how it feels to me right now. It feels like you're simply fishing to fish. Not a good sign. Injera Wrote:It's late here and I don't have much time, but I'm not really sure what would make zak (or anyone at this stage of the game, really) "clearly innocent." You're new here, but many of us aren't. Us vets have seen some of these faces from across multiple WW games (some from the very first one), so we have much more experience in reading people than you might. Therefore, when we see someone who's played both a 'Wolf and a Villager in the past it makes it easier for us to spot the differences. Hence zakalwe and Serdoa tripping as "innocent" on my list. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I think that's a large part of it for most people. It's just something you'll either have to learn for yourself, or choose not to accept. Injera Wrote:If zak had pushed hard against someone else other than uberfish I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been mislynched. Shouldn't that warrant even a shred of suspicion on Cat and zak? (obviously not both at the same time.) Yes, it should - thus part of my feelings against Catwalk (as I still haven't gotten any 'Wolf vibes from zakalwe; I'll get to that in a moment). Granted, I'm trying to temper my suspicions against Catwalk via other people's insistence that he's playing the exact same as he did last game, where he was an innocent, but I can't just let my feelings be dismissed out of hand. It's not my way, unless something big comes along to change my mind directly. As for why I don't suspect zakalwe? I'll put it simply: when he's a Villager, he's confident to the point of being nauseating. When he's a 'Wolf, he focuses his efforts towards stirring the pot, rarely pushing directly for a kill - only slipping hints here and there, trying to sew as much chaos as possible. The two styles are in stark contrast to one another, so unless zakalwe has learned how to act egotistical while still being a 'Wolf (and if so, bravo - I'll be the first to congratulate you on pulling the wool over my eyes) I just can't see him as a 'Wolf. Not yet, anyway - it is only Day 2, and as he said we'll have time to search for deep cover 'Wolves later, when we have more information to contrast with. Catwalk Wrote:I still think lynching uberfish was the right choice with the information available. He was being uncooperative all day, as others have pointed out. He even admitted that he was basically playing for an alibi in future games. Surprisingly (or not), he then uses his last words to cast suspicion on the two players who pursued the lynch. Anyone who makes anything of that is suspicious to me. Not just for sake of self preservation, but because that's such an easy argument to latch on to. All I'm going to say about the uberfish bit is that the fact that it was such a landslide on Day 1 should have tipped us all off that something was wrong. If he was a 'Wolf I would have expected more effort in trying to save him. As for his last words being an easy argument to latch onto, I'll agree. However, it's a calling card of his, and in the past I seem to recall him being at least somewhat accurate. Thus, since I'm not seeing any 'Wolf vibes from zakalwe, it gets chalked up to another reason to suspect you - albeit a circumstantial one. I'd never vote to lynch you based just on that - it's too weak by far - but it's something for me to keep in the back of my mind. Catwalk Wrote:Roland, I was addressing you because that's who I happened to be talking to at the time. I did something similar in WW6 with Meiz, I believe. If you find that suspicious, I think you're grasping for straws. Seeing as how Meiz directly backed you up, I suppose I should just let it go - not that it really bothered me that much (I was serious when I said it was mostly curious, rather than outright suspicious). Of course, Meiz isn't exactly the most trustworthy person on my list, so maybe I shouldn't after all. :neenernee I agree, though - to depend heavily on such an argument would be grasping at straws. Catwalk Wrote:I think Injera's logic is flawed, especially this last post. zakalwe provided very clear reasoning for both his original assessment of uberfish (based on past experience), and the change (based on lack of helpfulness during the day, basically dismissing accusations as idiocy). I don't find it to be particularly wolfish behaviour to push this hard for an innocent to hang. If either of us were wolves, it'd be much safer to jump on later and let others take the lead. It's funny you should mention that, because I don't recall finding your reasons for lynching uberfish being nearly as convincing - especially given how prone you were to flip-flopping on your position of him. Innocent, guilty, either way you thought he should die - if only to remove doubt. That behavior above all else has made me the most suspicious of you, especially combined with my next point: Catwalk Wrote:I don't mean it as an insult so I hope you won't take it as such, but how much WW have you played in other settings? If this is your first game you seem very sure of yourself, and I'm getting a feeling you're following wolf orders. If you've played a fair bit elsewhere, please disregard the comment. Ironically, I get that same feeling coming from you, except where Injera strikes me as a newbie (where being sure of yourself is fairly common - just look at my first game), you don't. New to WWRB? Yes, but not necessarily new to WW in general... I have to say Catwalk, you're back at the top of my suspects list. Catwalk Wrote:Wild guesses on everybody's status (not providing great arguments for all, I will try to back them up with quotes later today if you want any of it explained better): Quotes don't make for better arguments; they just reinforce what you're saying by providing a clear example of what you're attacking / defending, so this statement makes little sense to me. Catwalk Wrote:Serdoa - innocent. Working hard to sift through information and present it in a clear manner. Still not my first choice for mayor, but seems it'll work out well. Not an attack, just a curiosity: why don't you like Serdoa for Mayor? Catwalk Wrote:zakalwe - innocent. I find his play on uberfish to be highly villagerish, and I don't see the fluffing around others are talking about. Agreed, although I don't remember people saying he was fluffing around? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the word. Catwalk Wrote:Meiz - strong innocent read, or amazing con artist. I had a strong villager read on him last game and paid off, reads the same to me here. I don't get a strong read on Meiz either way, but to each their own. Catwalk Wrote:scooter - wolfish. Flailing around on day 1, had an activity related excuse for it (may be true, may be a convenient cover) and looks to me like he has kept machine gunning with poor aim since then. Looks like a (legitimately) low activity wolf who's making an effort to throw out some accusations while also trying to keep up with wolf discussions. Agree somewhat. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here with regards to not having time to commit (I don't question people's RL obligations, as I'd find it offensive if someone did it to me), but I do expect a bit more content from him. So far it seems more white noise to me. Far from enough to lynch him over, but definitely reason to push him for a bit more content. Catwalk Wrote:Injera - wolfish. As stated before, I found his accusation of zakalwe for the uberfish play to be highly suspicious. Are you saying with your last post that two wolves were high on the chopping block when zakalwe pushed for uberfish? I don't see where you get the idea that two 'Wolves were on the chopping block. That looks like a big grasp at straws to me. I read it as no clear bandwagons had formed yet, so the 'Wolves were content to sit with their votes spread out in order to blend in with everyone else. Catwalk Wrote:Roland - wolfish. Jumped around with votes on day 1, was uber polite with zakalwe and now jumps him like crazy. Is highly supportive of uberfish, seems like a wolf move to me. He knows he's innocent and likely to hang, giving him a great alibi. I don't see cause for such certainty without inside information. I did not "jump around". I pressed people whom I found suspicious in order to draw them out, and if they responded in such a way as to negate my suspicions I moved on. Once I settled on Twinkletoes I didn't move once. I put my vote on him to pressure him into talking (not knowing of his RL commitments at the time). I went after my top suspects one by one, while still pushing for explanations from other people on my list, or just people whom hadn't posted much of anything yet. I pushed to generate discussion, like only a handful of others did yesterday. Contrast that to your unwavering desire to lynch uberfish, not caring what his actual alignment was (guilty, innocent, he should hang!), and I'M the flip-flopper? Don't make me laugh. Oh, and I'd hardly say I was "highly supportive" of uberfish. Go back and read my posts again - there was hardly a shred of certainty about anything, just gut feelings and emotional response. His initial explanation post was the one that best gave me an innocent vibe from him, and even that was far from certain, but it rang true in contrast to the 'Wolf uberfish I've been tricked by in the past. Catwalk Wrote:I will try to post more later today. I sincerely hope so, because right now it looks like you're trying to stir up a witchhunt based on poor evidence. Meiz Wrote:Wall of text warning! Holy hell Meiz. I think I'm going to have to come back to that one... Serdoa Wrote:I might add it is also irritating that nobody is placing his vote at all. Injera, catwalk, Roland, zakalwe all were posting since the start of the day but didn't bother with voting at all. Absolutely the way to draw wolves out I am sure. While I understand your frustration Serdoa, I must remind you that it can lead one to make rash decisions. Go have a beer and take a breather. As for me not voting yet, well zakalwe spelled it out - my normal MO is to wait and see what unfolds, not jump out the gate with a vote. I played it a bit more gutsy yesterday, since it was Day 1 and we weren't learning anything at the time (which bothered me). Since we're past that, I'm going to be a bit more discriminating with my votes - and thus slower to cast them. zakalwe Wrote:Based on the above, and taking into account what others have posted, I'd say my top two suspects are currently Erebus and MNG. You raise some excellent points about Erebus that I hadn't even picked up on. As to MNG, my initial reaction was to just dismiss him out of hand as just being MNG, but seeing it from an outsider's perspective makes me think I'm giving him too much leeway based on my past history with him. Also, he's unusually quiet even for him - and I don't mean post count. I'm talking post content. I'd expect better from him, even with his sense of humor, and thus far it seems more like he's trying to hide behind it rather than it just being a natural extension of himself. I'll echo your comments against Sareln. We have so little to go on right now I'm not inclined to vote to lynch him, but if he doesn't start contributing something - anything - that allows us a better read on him I'm going to be much more suspicious than I already am. Alright, this post is long enough, and the more time I spend writing it the more posts I have to catch up on (the thread apparently has grown three pages since I started this). I'll try to add more later when I've caught up (and gotten something to eat - I knew it was a mistake to come straight from bed to here! :neenernee)
Reading a bit more, I'd say that I don't really have any concrete suspicions yet, but a few people are troubling me a little bit.
I can see why people are looking at Erebus. When I was reading what I had missed, his early posts today just seemed to stick out at me. I can't explain it too well but his talking about the vig kill set off my wolf alarm. Sareln is another person who is making me suspicious. Picking on Jkaen is the 'easy target', his explanation of his move to Uberfish isn't really very convincing and with Lewwyn dying overnight, he was one of the only people who seemed to maybe have some issues with him. Meiz was the other who seemed to have problems with Lewwyn and maybe he was getting to close to the bone with him (and Sareln) and so they silenced him before he could get traction? I would also say that I have the impression that his posting so far has been more 'parroting' than original though, normally quoting someone else and agreeing with them or developing their ideas'. Would be a pretty good way of covering his behind. I'm prepared for any of them to counter me and prove me wrong, as none of my suspicions are yet strong enough for me to vote for them but they are the ones sticking out right now.
"You want to take my city of Troll%ng? Go ahead and try."
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