Werewolf 7 game thread

[Injera]

My vote for TT on day 1 was aimed at shaking the tree and seeing what fell out. Uberfish was going to be the lynch 9/10 here at RB I think with his gambit barring a wolf royally screwing up. So after getting a satisfactory response from TT, I move to Uberfish for the end of the day.

Can you elaborate on this? If you're a villager, and you think uberfish is almost certain to be the lynch, why pile on and create even more cover for the wolves?

I still think Ichabod is too quiet for my tastes but I can see nobody is very interested in that.

My take on Ichabod is that he seems to be playing an honest village game. Is it possible he's an undercover wolf? Absolutely, though I can't see how we could possibly suss that out right now.

[Serdoa]

Reading a bit more, I'd say that I don't really have any concrete suspicions yet, but a few people are troubling me a little bit.

I can see why people are looking at Erebus. When I was reading what I had missed, his early posts today just seemed to stick out at me. I can't explain it too well but his talking about the vig kill set off my wolf alarm.

Sareln is another person who is making me suspicious. Picking on Jkaen is the 'easy target', his explanation of his move to Uberfish isn't really very convincing and with Lewwyn dying overnight, he was one of the only people who seemed to maybe have some issues with him.

Meiz was the other who seemed to have problems with Lewwyn and maybe he was getting to close to the bone with him (and Sareln) and so they silenced him before he could get traction? I would also say that I have the impression that his posting so far has been more 'parroting' than original though, normally quoting someone else and agreeing with them or developing their ideas'. Would be a pretty good way of covering his behind.

I'm prepared for any of them to counter me and prove me wrong, as none of my suspicions are yet strong enough for me to vote for them but they are the ones sticking out right now.

Erebus talking about the vig-kill set off your wolf-alarm? But you yourself talk about that vig-kill with absolute certainty that the wolfs have killed Lewwyn. I would have expected something like "IF the wolfs have killed Lewwyn, then maybe..." but instead, you are sure about it (what only a wolf or the vig can be) and use that as reason to be suspicious about two people.

I think I should color your name red TT, but maybe I am wrong, maybe you want to tell us instead why you shot Rowain?

[zakalwe]

@Zakalwe: You suspected Sareln on some of your posts on day 1. Later you voted for Uberfish and gave your reasons, while I voted for Sareln and gave my reasons. Now you suspect Sareln again. Why didn't you comment anything about my Sareln vote? I got the feeling that you weren't so sure on Uberfish being guilty (maybe I'm mistaken), so I wonder why you didn't say anything more about Sareln after I voted.

Sareln was off to a bad start with his illogical random mayor vote, and I felt compelled to prod him on that. His responses didn't exactly convince me, but I knew from experience that he is very bad at projecting innocence, so I was wary of going after him so soon.

Later in the day, Uberfish felt like a better lynch target than Sareln. I had no issue with you voting for him, though, and I didn't have anything to add in his defense, so there was nothing much to comment on. I didn't really comment on much else, either, as nothing caught my attention. I was mostly just watching, and half waiting for Uberfish to claim a power role, because that seemed pretty likely (either because he was a wolf, or because his behavior would make more sense as a villager if he at least had a role claim to fall back on).

I think the strongest individual cause for suspicion against Sareln is the fact that he first got offended for me calling him a bad villager, and then later used that in his own defense. Then again, he's not the kind of player to let pride get in his way, so I could see him emphasizing his own flaws if he thought that was what it would take to get people off his back.

Anyway, as far as I can recall, I don't think I noticed that particular inconsistency until I was rereading during the night. And, as is typical of Sareln, he didn't address that point yet. That actually reminds me of WW5; when defending himself, he fails to address the specific causes for suspicion that have been brought up, "inviting" people to keep suspecting him.

In summary, I don't think he is defending very well, but I recognize the ways in which he is defending poorly, if that makes sense. So he still feels like a risky lynch target.

[Meiz]

Meiz was the other who seemed to have problems with Lewwyn and maybe he was getting to close to the bone with him (and Sareln) and so they silenced him before he could get traction?

I suspected Lewwyn, Lewwyn didn't really seem to suspect me.

I would also say that I have the impression that his posting so far has been more 'parroting' than original though, normally quoting someone else and agreeing with them or developing their ideas'. Would be a pretty good way of covering his behind.

I hope you had time to read my wall of text. I feel I tried to provide original ideas there (but not sure if succeeded ).

[zakalwe]

Can you elaborate on this? If you're a villager, and you think uberfish is almost certain to be the lynch, why pile on and create even more cover for the wolves?

This is a very valid question; he even stated in his post when he cast that vote that it was for "protection against a late swing" or something to that effect.

The thing is, he did the exact same thing in WW5, as an innocent. Like you are doing now, I thought back then that this was extremely strange reasoning for a villager. But apparently, that's how he does reason, as a villager. Of course, he could be emulating the same behavior as a wolf; I just want to warn you that Sareln has a somewhat unusual baseline, which could make him harder to evaluate if you haven't played with him before.

[Twinkletoes89]

There was no certainty as they were suggestions with question marks. I mentioned Lewwyn dying overnight, not being eaten. Whether he was eaten or vig-killed, my best guess is that he was taken out by someone taking issue with what he was saying.

The two people who had expressed those issues were Meiz and Sareln, so they become suspicious because of that reasoning. One of them may prove to be the vigilante instead but their issues with him and then him dying suggest that at least one of them may well have been involved.

I am of the opinion that they are both players who are too savvy with the game to have made such a stupid mistake with a vigilante shot.

I've had my fill of trying to role-claim in WW games as I have enough people who seem to suspect me already without giving them more ammunition. I am a humble villager and nothing more.

[zakalwe]

Day 2 Lynch Tally

3v: Erebus (Zakalwe, Catwalk, Serdoa)
3v: JKaen (Erebus, Scooter, Sareln)
2v: Scooter (MNG, Meiz)
1v: Catwalk (Gaspar)
1v: Zakalwe (Injera)

Not voting: Ichabod, JKaen, TT, Roland

History:

1. Erebus votes for JKaen
   
2. Scooter votes for JKaen
   
3. MNG votes Scooter
   
4. Gaspar votes for Ichabod
   
5. Serdoa votes Sareln
   
6. Meiz votes for Scooter
   
7. Serdoa switches from Sareln to Scooter
   
8. Catwalk votes for Injera
   
9. Zakalwe votes for Erebus
   
10. Injera votes for Zakalwe
    
11. Catwalk switches from Injera to Erebus
    
12. Serdoa switches from Scooter to Erebus
    
13. Sareln votes for JKaen
    
14. Gaspar switches from Ichabod to Catwalk
    

[Catwalk]

All I'm going to say about the uberfish bit is that the fact that it was such a landslide on Day 1 should have tipped us all off that something was wrong. If he was a 'Wolf I would have expected more effort in trying to save him. As for his last words being an easy argument to latch onto, I'll agree. However, it's a calling card of his, and in the past I seem to recall him being at least somewhat accurate. Thus, since I'm not seeing any 'Wolf vibes from zakalwe, it gets chalked up to another reason to suspect you - albeit a circumstantial one. I'd never vote to lynch you based just on that - it's too weak by far - but it's something for me to keep in the back of my mind.

uberfish was not a landslide lynch until quite late, and once he started getting votes his defense consisted of "this is not a very bright village".

Concerning most of the rest of your points, I'll have to plead inexperience. If you read through WW6, you'll find that I didn't do a striking performance either when it came to doing investigative work. I think I did a good job identifying Meiz as villager and managed to save a kill, other than that I did nothing noteworthy. I pushed for a lynch against a villager on day 1 when I saw what I perceived to be a mysterious bandwagon forming, and that lynch succeeded. Given that, I'm a bit at wits end here. I'm trying to keep myself alive and figure out who to trust, while also attempting to contribute to the discussion. I suppose I'm easily influenced, as my switch back to uberfish on day 1 was directly influenced by Ichabod who called me out on switching away from uberfish, and today I went ahead and placed a dubious vote on Injera because Serdoa was (rightfully) complaining that very few votes were being placed.

It's funny you should mention that, because I don't recall finding your reasons for lynching uberfish being nearly as convincing - especially given how prone you were to flip-flopping on your position of him. Innocent, guilty, either way you thought he should die - if only to remove doubt.

I've argued for my reasons why uberfish was a good candidate, and I do stand by that. I found it to be far more likely that it was a cunning (and highly risky, and ultimately not that good) wolf gambit than a needless and poor villager play. I specifically stated that uberfish was still my prime suspect when I switched to Injera, I only switched because there seemed to be no support for my accusations. I also think the fact that we have no seer was a highly relevant factor, as that makes it plausible that it was a wolf gambit. With a seer in play, I wouldn't find it plausible.

Ironically, I get that same feeling coming from you, except where Injera strikes me as a newbie (where being sure of yourself is fairly common - just look at my first game), you don't. New to WWRB? Yes, but not necessarily new to WW in general...

I have to say Catwalk, you're back at the top of my suspects list.

I've played a whole bunch of IRC based werewolf games several years ago, and I do think I learned some from that. But day turns lasted 2 minutes at most, so it was an entirely different game. The information level was low, and wolves were more likely to make mistakes with so little time to think. So gut feeling and simple analysis of available information took you a long way. This is an entirely different game, and I'm not faring too well. Doesn't discourage me, I'm sure I'll catch on.

Quotes don't make for better arguments; they just reinforce what you're saying by providing a clear example of what you're attacking / defending, so this statement makes little sense to me.

To me, qualifying what you're saying with factual information does make for better arguments. I did intend to provide quotes, and ran out of time.

Not an attack, just a curiosity: why don't you like Serdoa for Mayor?

I suppose this was partly for personal reasons (concerning my screwup in WW6) and for what I saw as poor play in WW6. He kept finding me highly suspicious and he wasted a vigilante shot. I'll withdraw the comment and say that I find him to be rational and useful to this game.

re: finding zakalwe to be innocent
Agreed, although I don't remember people saying he was fluffing around? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the word.

I meant the comments about him resorting to jokes and stuff (what I refer to as fluff) when he's a wolf. I haven't really seen much of that.

I did not "jump around". I pressed people whom I found suspicious in order to draw them out, and if they responded in such a way as to negate my suspicions I moved on. Once I settled on Twinkletoes I didn't move once. I put my vote on him to pressure him into talking (not knowing of his RL commitments at the time). I went after my top suspects one by one, while still pushing for explanations from other people on my list, or just people whom hadn't posted much of anything yet. I pushed to generate discussion, like only a handful of others did yesterday. Contrast that to your unwavering desire to lynch uberfish, not caring what his actual alignment was (guilty, innocent, he should hang!), and I'M the flip-flopper? Don't make me laugh. Oh, and I'd hardly say I was "highly supportive" of uberfish. Go back and read my posts again - there was hardly a shred of certainty about anything, just gut feelings and emotional response. His initial explanation post was the one that best gave me an innocent vibe from him, and even that was far from certain, but it rang true in contrast to the 'Wolf uberfish I've been tricked by in the past.

I was mistaken about a lot of this. I had a gut feeling that you might be a wolf, so I looked for clues to support this theory. The result was not very accurate, I do apologize for that. I also do maintain that I didn't flip flop about uberfish though, and part of my suspicion of you was your stance on uberfish. As with Injera, I'll chalk that down to a difference of opinion about his gambit.

I sincerely hope so, because right now it looks like you're trying to stir up a witchhunt based on poor evidence.

While the evidence may be poor, I'm not stirring a witch hunt. I tried to provide arguments for some of my suspicions, they did not concern you alone. I find this a little suspicious, similar to when zakalwe made a slight accusation of you along with other people and you jumped at him with fangs bared :neenernee It sounds like that's a question of playing style, though.

[Catwalk]

I still think Ichabod is too quiet for my tastes but I can see nobody is very interested in that. So I have to say Catwalk seems to be trying really hard to chum up with zakalwe, even leaping to his defense virtually unprompted. I recognize this behavior from doing it myself in previous games when I played wolf.

Care to explain why you think you need to carry zak's water for him, Catwalk?

I suppose this was mainly because we were lumped together concerning the uberfish incident. I was discussing the points brought up by Injera about our different perspectives on that, and it seemed a natural point of discussion. I do believe zakalwe to be innocent, though.

[Twinkletoes89]

Something I don't seem to see us doing (or at least discussing) is now is looking again at the fallout from uberfish's gambit, now that we know (pretty much) what he was trying to do and that he was a villager.

One of the main reasons for his lynching was so that we would have this information to use, but I don't really see any of us using it.