Miscellaneous ideas

[Catwalk]

From another forum:

I've always thought MoM, like most 4x games, could do with a better endgame. Generally you know by about halfway or two-thirds of the way through that you're going to win, and then it's just a matter of going through the motions. But spicing up the endgame by simply boosting the weaker opponents doesn't seem to achieve much.

Maybe a more PvE-style endgame, where you have to use your accumulated resources to fight some external challenge, might work. For example, rather than just casting the Spell of Mastery, you also have to fight off hordes of demons that are summoned as a byproduct of the casting. Or maybe you have to defeat some BBEG.

The idea of a better end game appeals to me a lot. Making it harder to kill wizards off (by making fortress cities harder to take) will help somewhat with this. Any thoughts?

[WhiteMage]

Actually,
I would really prefer to start with 1 settler and nothing else. I like to choose where to settle. This is the initial Civilization 1 setup and that was the best. All new games including MoM can’t beat this. In a MoM game that takes me 2 weeks to play I really don’t mind spending that extra 5 minutes to finish first 20 turns, I already have plan that I follow. I agree that building shrine instead of granary should be a reasonable first choice. That’s why I proposed making it produce 3 mana and starting game with only 1 spell and making early research important. I also agree that making all these options in the game to choose would be the best, but that appears to be extra programming and extra interface development. Starting a game where disbanding the initial unit is a good choice? Hmm, not attractive and counterintuitive. It’s like getting a new car as a present and the best thing you can do with it is to sell it, rather than deciding that you want a car and then you start to save for it and eventually buy it. As I stated earlier, map editors should still be available and starting on tiny island should not be denied completely. MoM is a game you can only appreciate once you played it for a while. I’m not surprised that your friend did not get hooked in 5 minutes. It took me a couple of weeks as well. For new players the graphics alone is enough to turn their back. It simply doesn’t compare to 1600x1200 graphics with true color. The initial choice should be multi-dimensional: spearmen, settler, granary, shrine, mana, research skill, exploration, etc.? These should be all roughly equally beneficial.

[Catwalk]

But MoM isn't Civ. A new city progresses WAY slower. Starting with a hamlet would lead to massive boredom in the first 50 turns or so instead of the first 20 turns or so as is.

[WhiteMage]

Again, this seems to be mainly a preference issue, so perhaps making MoM offer the option to choose is the best way to go.

[robinh3123]

True, but we're planning on weakening overpowered combos That said, I do acknowledge that I had a preference for slower combos at that time.

Could you list all "over-powered combo" you think currently?
Based on v1.31 (or 1.40h, not quite matters), I would say possibly the followings (not in the order of power)
1. 11 books.
2. Artificier + Rune Mastery
3. Life + War Lord
4. Alchemy
5. Sorcery Mastery + Conjurer
6. Node Mastery

[kyrub]

(I couldn't find the thread about alchemy so here it goes: )

- Alchemy ratios must change, I think we agreed on it.
We had a lot of discussion about how much, without a proper agreement. What about making the other way, I'll put a new tentative ratio in Catnip 1.0, and then we test it and change?

My quick suggestion is to make:
I. nice, symmetrical, maybe too soft

Code:

Without Alchemy
input:output ratio 3:1

With Alchemy
input:output ratio 3:2

II. hardest setting

Code:

Without Alchemy
input:output ratio 4:1

With Alchemy
input:output ratio 2:1

III. Mid way, alchemy seems a bit less useful here, at first glance.

Code:

Without Alchemy
input:output ratio 3:1

With Alchemy
input:output ratio 2:1

Your choice.
BTW, I suggest no changes for mana -> gold, same ratios as above.

[Catwalk]

I think this one is difficult. There'll be many balance changes in Catnip, and the alchemy ideas were more or less based on the current balance. If you make a change, can it easily be revised later?

[kyrub]

Yes. More or less. I'll try to do it in a way, that would make it easy to change later.

[Catwalk]

Then I suggest going with the last option for now.