[SPOILERS] - Too Much Information Thread

[TheMeInTeam]

Hello Realms Beyond and welcome to my first PBEM! I have a vague idea of how this works and a comparable idea of how civilization works. I'm starting up a thread for my dedicated lurkers too! Call it some early C&D, if you will .

I was a bit surprised to hit vet status...well...instantly. This is my first solo game on Realms Beyond and all of my MP experience comes with a blazing timer! Plako and warriorknight were serious factors in Pitboss 4...but it looks like my single player xp (and a video here or there ) gives me a little bit of extra credit. In this game, I'll be seeking to earn it!

Nevertheless, it is against the best here that I seek to compete. I can easily and consistently win on immortal and sometimes take a deity game. I've studied the previous pitboss games here. I know the basics of MP, most variants of attack and defense possible, and have a general (and soon to be improved) grasp of micromanagement. I even know a player tendency or two . Barring any silly errors, I expect a good showing here, but we'll see. I'll try not to die t10 or something.

i'll be updating this thread with pictures and general strategies as they come. I probably won't drop a pic every single turn but I'll keep the lurkers informed of anything important that happens and update with pics every few turns to showcase major changes. The proper balance avoids info overload while being entertaining. Let's see if I manage.

EDIT: Leaders have been chosen, so now it's time to analyze:

TMIT: Shaka of Ottomans: I had 1st pick and chose a leader with a combo of traits that act as both a deterrent and carries some offensive teeth, with enough oomph to expand. I was not overly concerned with the civilization, but obviously would have preferred Rome for their super UU if it fell to me (fat chance). Notably, I'm the ONLY guy who didn't pick a civ starting with fishing. I'm not certain why this is; possibly the others don't have a pig tile that will be 5F 1H 1C once improved (compared to 6f 2c on the fish, which is unusually good but not truly spectacular w/o the banned FIN trait). I actually think worker 1st + AH is stronger here because of the higher raw yield + head start on worker turns (edit: test saves show I'm wrong in this regard and that fishing is better, but only slightly so!). Regardless I like my starting techs and rate them just behind those of China. My UU is on the late side but dangerous as a draft unit as it really has no hard field counter until later in the game, and benefits from the trait. The UB is solid, but nothing amazing. Still, if military escalation appears in the books (and with AGG Rome around it just might!), having a nice cap booster en route to collateral + initial AGG axes should at least put me in the medium tier of "don't rush this guy". Let's hope.

Oledavy/Mackoti: Kublai Khan of Rome: I think this quote says something:

mackoti is your most dangerous opponent here

Especially because it was made BEFORE this team took aggressive Rome. Eyes tight on the demo screen, early game can be bumpy with that power rating. After the early goings, this civ peters out a bit (CRE becomes increasingly non-contributory and once prats are obsolete the only benefit is the rather terrible forum bonus), although early is most important. I need to watch this civ very carefully; in one of the other PBEMS or Pitboss (I forget which) people were calling aggressive Rome the "borg" . I'm assuming the worst and that this civ gets iron. If this team goes "borg" on someone I'm going to have to a) backstab them b) instigate a dogpile on them or c) stick someone and gain land even faster (unlikely but if someone has their pants down, i'll do it because my later-game is stronger)

Serdoa: De Gaulle of Carthage: Wonky. On a map where there is "no salt water" the UB is going to be fairly non-factor...can he even build it? I think you need salt water just to make a cothon normally...but the presence of seafood might allow it in cities that have that available. Even so, it's a major gamble at best to choose a UB like this on a land-heavy map. That leaves the UU. It's actually better in MP by miles than in SP and fairly dangerous. I shudder to think of a tandem attack with these guys + rome (axes are terrible vs numidian, spears terrible vs prats). With elephants banned, the best counters to these guys are spears (which still do get some odds) and ironically, stock horse archers. I was tempted to pick Egypt just to spite this civ, but that's more for 1v1 . I don't see a lot of trait synergy here. If Serdoa chases wonders (and picking his IND leader last this is likely) he won't be able to lay down a truly threatening attack timing and will be stuck using numidians to choke and/or dogpile...but more importantly leaves himself exposed to the borg. If he pursues early military timing I'm not sure why he selected IND. I don't know, maybe he just REALLY wanted that fish and picked Carthage because at least it had an early UU? That's my best guess.

Plako: Isabella of Native America: "Leave me alone, Rome". Normally the home of the protective anti-rush cow, Izzy is an upgrade on NA and Plako was one of the better players in Pitboss #4. It's almost 100% that this faction won't be prat rushed. He's actually a little threatened by numidians compared to AGG civs. Starting techs are good. Not much to say about Izzy; the choice is solid with a good expo trait and a micro utility trait that many underrate. On the flip side, Plako is going to have a hard time actually attacking anybody; dogs are good but they don't break AGG axes very easily and are terrible vs archers. One thing to watch out for is a VERY early dog though; that could give someone an early exit. More eyes on demo screen. If he misses that window (and he probably should, crippling someone at the cost of own expansion isn't ideal) his early game offensive is neutered though...and the uniques don't do much past the early game, especially with the lack of protective synergy (feel free to laugh now). Well, anti-rush deterrent is valuable though...I had a similar logic with my leader choice.

WarriorKnight: Louis of England: Frenchman leading the English, good times. A 2nd industrious civ lends fortunate contention to wonders to Serdoa and weakens both of their choices a bit. The choice of England baffles me, unless we're just playing for the legendary fishing/mining start. Draft redcoats are an incredible force...but this is a 5 man quick speed game. Can he get them in time to turn the tide of an otherwise even war? Stock Exchange is similar in limitation...it's good but won't really shine w/o shrines, corps, or kremlin rush buy. I might be wrong, this might go late...but will it go late without people starting to run away? That is the question. Along with Serdoa WarriorKnight is probably the favored rush/early attack target by other civs; no traits to boost units and no hard counter to either prats or numidians.

Civ/Leader strength rating:

1. Mackoti/Oledavy: Tremendous earlygame powerhouse and can dictate how the game goes with the UU
2. TMIT: AGG to deter prats, one of the few useful UBs on the map, strong mid game.
3. Plako: Powerful rush deterrent and balanced traits but UB causes me to put him just behind my combo
4. WarriorKnight: Early game vulnerability, decent UB, decent later-game UU
5. Serdoa: Good opening UU but questionable trait combo and horrid UB for the map

Of course, diplo and in-game choices will have a LOT more of an impact than our civ/leader combos, so stay tuned!

[SevenSpirits]

I have cropped everyone's screenshots to remove tile bleed. I decided I didn't want anything to ride on people's differing abilities to read the fog of war from a screenshot. I will say however that the lake you see is only 3 tiles big, and that the bottom right grassland is riverside. I've not cropped out any visible tiles. Naturally, if you choose a hunting start, your warrior will be replaced by a scout.

To repeat what I posted in the organizing thread:

Here is some very important general info, which everyone gets:

[SIZE="3"]The map is 30x30, has toroidal wrap, and has NO saltwater.[/SIZE]

Settings are as you discussed - standard size, emperor difficulty, and no barbs being the main ones to remember.

Good luck!

P.S. Clever thread name

[Kyan]

Welcome to Realms Beyond TMIT.

Firstly, i didn't count the words, but be aware that the first paragraph or so of your first page is displayed even when you inadvertently hover over the thread name. I don't think there's much exciting there but worth knowing regardless.

I would say, based off your single player difficulty setting and your intention to commit serious time to the game (yeah, i saw your post count on CFC ), that you're actually the favourite in this game. I appreciate that this forum contains a lot of games, but the pitbosses are generally not the best measures of competition. They're the most lurked for sure, but in terms of showing skill- not in my opinion. If you're looking for a good read, i might suggest PBEM17; particularly Novice and Spaceman's thread (they're twice the player of me, i'm not ashamed to admit). Although, to be fair, i think most players delved into some serious micro for quite awhile. That game is still going so i won't say much more, but reading that should give you some perspective. Personally, and again this is just my opinion, none of the other players in this game are in the top 10% of what RB has to offer.

I think the game was mostly split because there are multiple players in the now green game that struggle on prince level or above. I'm not intending to insult anyone as that is a fantastic way to learn- a way i utilised myself.

Heh i sound like an elitist bastard, so ill stop talking now. I blame alcohol and too much time with Krill (woo new signature :neenernee ). Getting back on track, i shall read your thread with interest and feel free to do occasional youtube updates- a surefire way to get lurker popularity! Best of luck.

[Kyan]

Actually, i slightly take back my previous point. I have just realised that mackoti is teamed with oledavy. mackoti is your most dangerous opponent here for sure. However, he's an extremely dominant player and tends to not work well as a team so i guess we'll see how that goes.

[Thoth]

i'll be updating this thread with pictures and general strategies as they come. I probably won't drop a pic every single turn but I'll keep the lurkers informed of anything important that happens and update with pics every few turns to showcase major changes. The proper balance avoids info overload while being entertaining. Let's see if I manage.

No pics makes lurkers unhappy.

You'll have a hard time winning the thread spam competition without the help of Lurkers.

Bribe us with pics* and we'll help (with the thread spam )

Deny us pics and we'll shun you.

Remember, it's not winning the game that counts, it's winning the thread spam competition.












*Pics of random bewbs are an acceptable alternative to actual in game screenies.

[TheMeInTeam]

Firstly, i didn't count the words, but be aware that the first paragraph or so of your first page is displayed even when you inadvertently hover over the thread name. I don't think there's much exciting there but worth knowing regardless.

I'm a rookie in post count on RB, but no forum rookie . You don't know how large my temptation is to create a threat titled "counter to speakers super secret plan" in pitboss 6, and then say "we're onto them now" in the OP, only to occasionally spam nonsense into the thread . Still, I appreciate heads up like this.

That game is still going so i won't say much more, but reading that should give you some perspective.

I'll check it out. More scouting the mindsets here .

Actually YT updates aren't a bad idea! They aren't hard either, arguably easier than other methods. Leaving them "unlisted" would make them as "safe" as this thread is too.

No pics makes lurkers unhappy.

I've read a lot of summaries here, and I can't think of too many threads that post screen updates every turn, but rather with fair frequency. As compromise I'm thinking I'll offer some video material in addition!

Remember, it's not winning the game that counts, it's winning the thread spam competition.

Popularity contest gogogogo ! I'll keep your little note there in mind however one must be mindful of the forum rules .

[Thoth]

I've read a lot of summaries here, and I can't think of too many threads that post screen updates every turn, but rather with fair frequency. As compromise I'm thinking I'll offer some video material in addition!

Video updates would be cool. And most certainly a new thing here.

Popularity contest gogogogo !

Nah, nothing to do with popularity, just some fun on the side.

I'll keep your little note there in mind however one must be mindful of the forum rules .

They don't have to be nekkid bewbs....this sort of thing can work as well:


[FFH XI Spoiler]
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=165
[/spoiler]

[TheMeInTeam]

On a more serious note, I was first in the snake pick, and have chosen:

[SIZE="4"]Shaka[/SIZE]

I was a little disappointed to pick first actually. Metagame here is different from over on CFC (where I'm one of the few who values expansive highly). However, when I saw the map settings, I made the following considerations:

1. We have a 30x30 toroidal map and no salt water. This means we have no less than THREE civilizations that are capable of reaching our borders. Whatever my reputation may or may not be, most of the other players know each other and not me. They'll be looking for some disruption earlygame if they can find it, and an early deterrent (AGG) considering we're all likely to have metal is a plus. Of course, AGG never hurt for clearing out any would-be offensives or being opportunistic, either . I can tech decently in this game...but I need to survive and plako's/WK's behavior in pitboss IV justifies a little emphasis on safety.

2. Unfortunately for my lurkers, I share the appreciation for EXP here. I considered other traits and combos (peter, catherine, gandhi), but I kept ruling them out due to map size. Expansive is the best trait for setting up cities quickly, and in this format I'm going to need to do that...we're seeing AT MOST 3-4 cities between capitols...but with terrain, placement for resources/defense considerations, it probably won't even be that.

3. I don't think any civilization is a guaranteed advantage here. I'm up first, and anything I picked for some early cheezy peezy could be at least somewhat countered (picking a civ LAST with only a handful of players, on the other hand, gives me the opportunity to do that). Traditional rush units (noobtorian, war chariot, immortal, impi) are hurt by a combination of the game speed, decent-but-not-great distance between players, and the fact that we're all likely to meet early. An early rush is likely to be self destructive as remaining players take opportunity to grab land for MUCH less cost and/or backstab depending on their intel and point in the game. I don't want to be that guy, and I don't want to be that guy's target. With a fairly fast setup and a likely military edge/tie, I should avoid much of the early grief that I might otherwise come upon.

More to come as others make choices.

[Thoth]

Any thoughts on what civ you would like to pair Shaka with? (assuming of course that you manage to get your dream team)

[TheMeInTeam]

Any thoughts on what civ you would like to pair Shaka with? (assuming of course that you manage to get your dream team)

I'm not too concerned. I do want good starting techs, which means at least 1 thing that allows me to research AH immediately (pigs are my best tile, over the fish and earlier worker turns is better). On assumption of quick game speed I can get away with worker 1st as train worker ----> warrior is unlikely to get an opening scouting warrior in my face before I can get a defensive unit, even if they come right for me instead of exploring the area around capitol. To be safe i'll loop my warrior near cap however. I have a few I wouldn't mind:

1. Ottomans: Solid UB and while the UU may or may not become relevant, it has the potential to be very devastating to late medieval units, especially with AGG.
2. Maya: I will pick them if one of my opponents select Egypt or Persia. I don't like the starting techs (mysticism is dead weight in the opening turns IMO), but the UB is fine and guaranteed spears would be very nice against aggressive horse play. Can cause choke problems to opponents if someone is closer than expected and/or settles aggressively too.
3. China: Bad UU synergy, but the starting techs are excellent. In NTT I can get CKN in the late BC/early AD which can be very annoying although I devalue that bulb path given the fishing start.
4. France: Solid starting techs and a decent UU. Trash UB but w/e
5. Korea: Not ideal starting techs but UU/UB work well in a small map like this, especially UU will be very obnoxious
6. Rome: DERP! Aggressive rome. I'm so creative. But, fishing/mining + earlygame pressure should command some respect. Too much respect, I fear.
7. Zulu: It's not a bad combo by any stretch, with a threatening choke unit, strong trait/UB synergy, and respectable starting technologies for the AH/worker start.
8. Ethiopia: The thought of draft drill II combat I oromos at 0 xp is cute. UB is terrible though.

As you can see, players can't possibly choose all of these. My rankings tentatively:

1. Rome (massive troll powers ENGAGE!)
2. Ethiopia (worker 1st, AH, stronger late-game...well late for a small map)
3. Ottoman
4. France
5. Zulu
6. Maya