As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

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BTS SG 5 - The Greens

Thoughts re: Gaspar's post. He is completely correct on workers -- you need more workers, very very soon. With the settler mostly done, though, you might as well go ahead and complete it. But you then need at least a couple more workers...although you also need at least one warrior to escort the new settler.

On connecting the cities for the free trade route commerce, you just finished researching Wheel this turn so no commerce has been lost - yet. But you need a road quickly as you start losing 2 commerce (1 from each city) every turn. And right now your total commerce is about 12 per turn (from your 0% research cash rate and assuming 1 gpt cost for Salamis). So missing out on an ~17% commerce gain every turn is painful. frown

Gaspar is also correct about happiness -- luxuries are looking very scarce for you, unless you can conquer at least one neighbor. There is ivory and dye (by France); gems, dye, and wine (Kublai), and spices (should be yours, but Calendar is a ways off). Plus more wine and incense off to the farther east. But happiness is going to be pretty tight for the immediate future.

Where will you send the settler? You have several sites marked, some comments:

C-3 is not good. It has one plains cow for food, and that is shared with Salamis. And nothing else, really. Forests, I guess, but almost all of them are already within the capital's cultural boundary and can be chopped for full value into the capital. If you want the coast, move 2 tiles north and bring those pigs into range. You also get some forests not already in the capital's culture. Also, be aware that there could be seafood 2 tiles off shore of that forested hill -- planting a city and missing such would be a Bad Thing. Of course, probably there is nothing but ocean there, but if you don't check first....

C-4 is pretty good, with the grass cows, an oasis, and sharing the capital's rice for food. Plenty of hills for production, some forests, and you turn a meh desert hill into a standard city center and get the defense bonus. This would be a solid addition to your empire.

The plains hill marked C (discussed earlier) has already been discussed, although you now know there are no horses in its BFC. You probably want the pigs and cows for the capital, though, so this is still a pretty blah site.

The grassland south of the peak marked C is pretty blah as well. Shares wheat with Salamis, gets spices which will be very useful later but are only a middling tile for some time to come. And...that's about it. Also, this site would prevent a coastal city to the west where there are three tiles which might contain seafood.

Another option you might consider is the desert tile 2N1E of the spices: it converts a useless tile into a standard city center, has wheat and spices, 3 riverside grassland tiles for cottaging, plus some hills for production. Not as good as C-4 but not bad overall.

You could also consider going very aggressive, and trying to beat Kublai to that river area directly south of his capital. Lots of nice tiles there including the two flood plains, and you might be able to box Kublai in and force him to expand into Persia or France. Plus you could then settle even further east to grab more land there. The big risks are of course that Kublai beats you there, or decides to attack you to take it from you. More defense would certainly be needed. Plus it is a bit further away and will have higher maintenance costs than the closer sites.

This is definitely shaping up as a tougher than normal map. You have plenty of work ahead of you.

Edit: If I am babbling too much, just say so and I will shut up. lol As a non-player I should probably stick to just answering specific questions, as this game is supposed to be about the players. Sorry.
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Its nice the horses appeared at what was arguably our strongest city site.

I agree with C4 next.

Think pottery next sounds like a good idea
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@Gaspar: It probably would have been better to build another worker (use traits wisely!bang), but when I started building the settler I had just started moving the capital's warrior north hoping to find copper. The plan was to find it and immediately settle it but that didn't work out. At least maybe we have a leg up in the land grab with all these civs so close to us by dumping an extra (creative) settler out into the void.

I agree that getting a road to the second city ASAP is important. Should I have done that before getting the wheat farmed and the horse pastured? I assume it's best to work your special tiles when you can. Now, if I had built a third worker instead of second settler I could have had my cake and eaten it too, getting the special tiles improved and getting the trade network started....

It's good to know about the happy cap, you can see how many games I've played on monarch.rolleye
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Of course special tiles need to be improved before city connection is built. You will lose more than 2cpt if you work unimproved tiles

But yeah, I agree that 3rd Worker should've been built before 2nd Settler
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@haphazard1: I think we'll order up a few more workers directly.

Regarding city sites, that is a very preliminary dotmap. I hope the next turn player will have an opportunity to finish exploring the coasts to find some seafood out there that will improve the proposed city sites. I tried to pack the dotmap in close around the capital to get productive cities early on, sharing the food we have since our happy cap will be low for a while to come. It may stunt growth in those cities later on, but having more cities in the small arable land we have early on should help us prepare for taking better land from the other civs later. </theory> Anyway, I mostly just wanted to get some ink on the page to get feedback for now, as I don't doubt there are better sites available once we have more complete map information. The C-3 site was for if we wanted to chop chariots to rush, but we do need to see if there is seafod up there to get a better idea of where to settle.

I think C-4 could be the best place to send the settler when it completes, since we have good map info in that area and know it is a good site. I want to build toward our neighbors now if we can. I'd rather be in KK's first ring than have him in mine.

I'm not philosophically opposed to settling aggressively toward KK if we can get away with it, but I'm not the next turn player and don't necessarily want to advocate for an action that could have hostile reprocussions. hammer Not yet anyway; our military power doesn't really inspire confidence.

Keep the comments coming, the whole point of me playing this game is to learn from more experienced players. This is my first monarch game -- I probably have a Noble/Prince mindset to how this all plays out, and I'm sure I have bad habits that should be corrected. Don't go easy on me!

Lesson for today: When you're expansive, build early workers!
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I don't do C&D, but it looks like from the culture graph that KK hasn't built a second city yet since we're ahead of him in culture now. If he isn't building settlers I wonder what he whipped, maybe a worker? Our scout did see one in the NW of his territory a few turns ago.
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spacetyrantxenu Wrote:@Gaspar: It probably would have been better to build another worker (use traits wisely!bang), but when I started building the settler I had just started moving the capital's warrior north hoping to find copper. The plan was to find it and immediately settle it but that didn't work out. At least maybe we have a leg up in the land grab with all these civs so close to us by dumping an extra (creative) settler out into the void.

I agree that getting a road to the second city ASAP is important. Should I have done that before getting the wheat farmed and the horse pastured? I assume it's best to work your special tiles when you can. Now, if I had built a third worker instead of second settler I could have had my cake and eaten it too, getting the special tiles improved and getting the trade network started....

It's good to know about the happy cap, you can see how many games I've played on monarch.rolleye

Yeah, of course connect specials first if you have the ability to do so. The point was more that if you build enough workers, you can do both. If at all possible I try to settle my first few cities where they don't need a road connection for trade routes and then I start roading ahead of time afterwards.

One thing worth noting that slightly goes opposed to what haphazard has said - you're not going to be able to utilize all that food at the capital for a long time due to your happiness issues so I would absolutely settle in such a way that lets you split those resources off to 2-3 additional cities. Those cities will be minor late on when you might want your capital to grow, say in Bureaucracy, but they beat building nothing but foodhammer units in the capital or even worse, not working your food tiles. So I'd probably settle both the rice and pig-sharing cities next. It will be quite fast to get them productive and then you're fully using your food specials.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
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I don't object to the idea of sharing the capital's food tiles -- note that I am quite positive about C-4 which shares the rice. But a sharing city should if possible have something else going for it, so it can borrow the food to get early growth but then once grown work that something else. The plains hill site doesn't bring a lot else.

One positive of the plains hill site which I had overlooked previously is that it could work two river grass cottages in the capital's BFC, maturing them while the capital is busy with food/hammer tasks early on. Once they become hamlets or villages, the capital can take them back later to get more commerce for the bureaucracy bonus (and probably the library and academy bonus which are more likely to exist in the capital). Could even get a third cottage if/when that forest tile is chopped.

Of course, to have cottages will require still more workers. lol So many things come back to more workers, more more more.
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Sorry everyone, but I'm going to need to drop out of this game. I've just been a lot busier than expected this week and I've completely lost track of things here... I haven't even had a chance to write my WW8 post-mortem yet... bang

Good luck, and I'll stay lurking when I get a chance to catch up. smile
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Can someone post a 'got it' and an 'on deck' so we can settle into a rotation?

Also, if anyone lurking would like to sign on as a turn player feel free to take our fifth spot.
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