[SPOILERS] Don't mention the war

[plako]

Alright I've now gone through demographics and I think this is what has happened up to T24 (Too bad T24 doesn't add up correctly so something is not right):

OleMack:
T5 pop 1 (soldier points +1000 = 5000. I find soldier most useful points alongside with score when determining what is going on)
T8 BW (13000)
T9 Revolt
T10 Whip WB
T12 Whip worker (12000)
T14 Wheel (16000)
T19 Agriculture
T22 +1 pop (2nd city => 17000)
T24 ?? Hunting (17000)


TMIT:
T8: AH (8000)
T10: warrior (10000)
T12: Fishing +1 pop (11000)
T16: +1 pop
T17: Mining (13000)
T18: warrior (15000)
T24: +1pop + BW (24000)

Serdoa:
T5: +1 pop (5000)
T8: BW (13000)
T11: whip Worker (12000)
T14: Wheel+1 pop (17000)
T16: warrior (19000)
T18: Mystisicm + 1 pop
T19: warrior (21000)
T20: +1 pop (22000)
T21: Hunting (24000)
T22: whip settler -2 pop (23000)
T24: +2 pop - City founded (24000)

WK:
T8: BW (12000)
T12: +1pop (13000)
T14: Agriculture
T17: +1pop + warrior (15000)
T20: AH (17000)
T24: +1 pop

[NobleHelium]

Serdoa teched Mysticism but then went to Hunting instead of a religion? That's very odd if so...

I'd tentatively say we should go for religion after Pottery. It doesn't seem like there's much interest in getting them among the other people, and there's three available.

[plako]

Hunting seems strange indeed and I'm not totally sure. Things just doesn't sum up well on T24 currently so I've made mistake somewhere.

T29

I decided to open communication lines. 1st Chariot ready and I could easily get 3 more within next 2 turns, but I need to think if something else would make more sense. These aren't dominant units for very long so if I want use them I would need to do it immediately.

I think I take Mystisicm next. At least I get a bit more than standard monuments out of it and can try religion after it.



My Greetings to Rome:

I just want to let you know that we've met. Actually you're my 1st contact. It seems that starting areass are similar for everyone. Any news from the land of Praets ;-).

[plako]

Serdoa has found us. Here are 1st messages. He totally ignored the part where I ask about Rome. That seriously downgrades his creditability for now. I hope I can get communication lines open with Rome.

Serdoa:

I have found your second city in PBEM 25 and wanted to say Hello. How is it going in your part of the world? Have you encountered others already? I've met Rome and TMIT so far. It seems our map is rather small and we are all really near to each other. Especially with Rome on our doorsteps that might be not to fun in the near future. I am therefore interested to get good relations with my other neighbours. I feel that we can help each other more by working together then by attacking each other. For example we could:

a) agree to a NAP
b) agree to a border agreement
c) agree to have me supply you with missionaries - the first free, the others for a small payment - in Buddhism (I'll get it in a few turns)
d) agree to establish a trade route between us (both investing the same amount of worker turns for it) - though I honestly don't know if that would add more commerce then trade-routes with our own cities
e) help each other in a war

Let me know if you are interested in anything along those lines. I sure there is more we can help each other with if we put our minds to it.

Plako:

Nice to meet you and I've just previous turn met Rome. I'm definitely interested in to initiate a discussion including all your points. Border agreement coupled with NAP is in my book the most important part of the deal so I suggest we start from it. Unfortunately I haven't really scouted what is between us so either you need to wait until I can do that or you could provide map. It seems our starting areas are quite similar so adding some map knowledge I've from the south it might be possible to get pretty good view what we've.

Foreign trade routes are more valuable than local ones unless there has just been a war between the parties.

Is there anything you could share from your dealings with Rome so that I would have better idea how to continue my communication with them? Especially as you're suggesting military co-operation are you expecting them to be aggressive towards you or someone else?

Serdoa:

as for the map it seems to be mirrored with the next one being set up 12E, 6S of your starting position, with all of us having the (basically) same 12x12 area. Put that in a 30x30 square in excel and you'll see that we are all only 12 tiles from each other. Your second city is 4N, 2W of your capital. Now, look at your copper. Go 6S and 4W - thats the same spot you settled, only belonging to your neighbour.

As for the border agreement. We are pretty near each other and I am intending to settle the deer-spot (you should see it south of your copper). I would suggest we agree to not settle across the "deer-line" against each other. Means you are free to do in your north, north-west what you want and I am free to do in my south, south-east what I want. What do you think?

[NobleHelium]

I forgot Serdoa needed Mysticism for Stonehenge so deviating after that isn't a huge surprise. Not sure why he'd want Hunting so early, but whatever.

[plako]

T30

Tough desicion this turn. War or economy path? I decided to choose economy and did put the overflow I had been accumulating to build 1T granaries in both of my cities.

There is OleMack's worker building a cottage near capital. No response from them so far.

[plako]

I had a chat with Oledavy. Talked about NAP and I agreed one until T36 and we try to iron up a longer one.

My response to Serdoa:

Thank you for your offer. Deer seems to be in my "box" so this doesn't sound right to me.

I still lack some map info in the area so it is quite hard to make counter offer.

[plako]

OleMack:

Sorry I had to run earlier, I've now had time to examine the situation and talk to Mack. Thanks for your patience


Existing Deal: NAP until t36, inclusive (at least as I understood it).


Would you be interested in extending the Non-Aggression Pact through turn 61? The following clauses would be in effect for both parties:


1. We will not gift units to a third party to facilitate an attack.
2. We will not allow the army of a third civilization to pass through our lands to attack either party.
3. We will not organize an alliance against either party.


In regards to a settling agreement, could you please send us screenshots of the territory in question?


Hopefully we can come up with an equitable distribution of land, and we can expand towards our neighbors as quickly as possible

Me:

T61 sounds just like the date when you get Praets. I'm better off without such a NAP. It would need to be significantly longer e.g. until T100.

Just checked the approach area towards Rome and to my disappointment the tile NW from rice is not flatland as it is in my land. This gives them a forewarning 1T sooner, if I decide to attack .

[plako]

T31
Discussed again with OleDavy and seems like we're probably getting a NAP until T100. We need to arrange border deal before that though.

Started Mystisicm this turn and focused on commerce tiles to get it in 2. I'll probably convert slavery next turn and whip the settler from the capital to settle the copper city.

[plako]

Serdoa sent this:

may I ask why you think that deer would be in your box? The spot I will settle is 5 tiles from my capital after all, the deer itself 6 tiles. As our boxes are 12x12 tiles with the cap in the middle, I don't see how that would be your box. Of course the one in your south is yours, no question about that, but I don't think you meant that.

As for you lacking in map info I am sorry to hear that. I could provide all I know about the map but I think you understand that it did cost me some investment (mainly having to build scouting units instead of pure expansion as you did it) so I would like to get something back for that. For example as I said I am heading for Buddhism. I would like to make sure to not be in a race for it, so I would offer my map information in exchange for a non-compete on Buddhism from your side.

Btw: I also realized when rereading our conversation (to find out why you consider deer in your box, no such luck though) that I never answered your questions about Rome. My dealings so far with them were not to unpleasant, but yes, I except aggression from them. Not necessarily against me though.

I've strong feeling the "missing" stone and/or marble are located where Serdoa is heading with his city. This probably also explains why he researched Hunting (assuming I'm right that he has researched it). If marble is there, it would give him access to very cheap Oracle. All this in mind I sent him this:

The deer tile is just 5 tiles SW from my capital and therefore inside my 12*12 box assuming my capital is in the middle.

If you want to settle there, I need to see what I'm losing and also a compensation of the land somewhere else (most likely in the area south from me i.e. NE from you). But again I can't make a desicion without seeing the map.

We can also postpone border agreement until I've uncovered the border area so Buddhism deal is not nescessary.