[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[regoarrarr]

Why is it considered not worth building? I don't have very much practice with the late game and assumed it would be a pretty decent wonder to snag in a situation like this.

Paging Dr. T-Hawk....

[Profane]

One of the reasons has to do with the prerequisite techs being really out of the way from a spaceship beeline - You need Robotics, which isn't necessary.

Another related thing is that you'd probably be done with most parts by the time you get the tech, making its value rather questionable. If you haven't actually built many parts by then, you're screwed anyway.

It would help to have a GE to help finish it, but I think the diversion isn't going to improve your spaceship times.

Of course, if you are going need Mech. Infantry for defense, things may be different, although I'm not sure how well one would be able to defend on an archipelago while building parts, even with those Dikes.

[oledavy]

One of the reasons has to do with the prerequisite techs being really out of the way from a spaceship beeline - You need Robotics, which isn't necessary.

Another related thing is that you'd probably be done with most parts by the time you get the tech, making its value rather questionable. If you haven't actually built many parts by then, you're screwed anyway.

It would help to have a GE to help finish it, but I think the diversion isn't going to improve your spaceship times.

Of course, if you are going need Mech. Infantry for defense, things may be different, although I'm not sure how well one would be able to defend on an archipelago while building parts, even with those Dikes.

Thanks for the explanation

Fwiw, NoSpace started teching computers this last turn, which means one of three things:

1. They really want to build the internet.
2. They really want to get to fiber optics.
3. They're headed for robotics.

Would love to have a peek into their thread right now to see what they're thinking.

Anyway, onto the turn itself:

[SIZE="3"]Turn 159[/SIZE]

My vanity build, the Sistine Chapel, came in at the beginning of the turn:



I wonder if anyone will start thinking I'm going for a cultural victory.

Shoot gifted me back the HMS Inflexible this turn.



He now only owes me one more.

I went ahead and renegotiated our trade deal since I no longer need the wheat:



For completeness sake, here's the city of Acre (while I missed in last turn's update) along with what I jotted down in my notebook.



- Turn 159, pick up the workshop.
- Badly needs a university, grocer, and observatory.
- Grow to work the grassland cottage.

I whipped dikes to completion in Alexandria, Hebron and Nazareth this turn for 2 pop each, then grew 10 pop at the conclusion of the turn for a net gain of +4. I'm going to be doing very little whipping at this point with a golden age coming up, as I want to be able to work as many GA-boosted tiles as possible.

I ran 100% research to finish Communism, revolting into State Property next turn. No other techs fell worldwide.

I spoke to Shoot last night about the game, asking how he wanted to see it out. He wants to rebuild his empire, and wait to see the tech standings in ~20 turns before making a decision.

End Turn.

[T-hawk]

One of the reasons has to do with the prerequisite techs being really out of the way from a spaceship beeline - You need Robotics, which isn't necessary.

That's the entire reason. Robotics takes an extra 3-6 turns to research and does not pay back in constructing parts 3-6 turns faster. Remember that you're only limited by the LAST part, which should be coming in a city with monstrous hammer multipliers in factory/power, Ironworks, aluminum, and laboratory. (If the preceding aren't true, you already screwed up.) The "+50%" from the elevator is actually a really tiny boost when added to all the other multipliers.

Problem's not the elevator itself, it's the research cost to get there. If you already got Robotics somehow (maybe you were paranoid enough to want mechs, or got it in a trade or steal), the elevator isn't a bad idea (but still not great since the +50% is only additive with 250% of other multipliers.)

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 160[/SIZE]

I opened the save to find this message from Shoot:



I guess he missed that I've been paying him 30 gpt for three turns now :rolleyes: He also gifted me back two East Indiamen, giving me one too many (he traded for the HMS Prince eons ago).

I moved the ship back to Ilios, gifted it back to him, and sent off a short message:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Shoot,

A couple of quick notes on PBEM17. I turned down your offer for 60 gold, I've been gifting you 30gpt for 3 turns now, check your outstanding deals.

You gifted me back one East Indiamen too many (your traded for one long ago in exchange for rifles). I gifted it back to you and it is sitting in the port of Ilios.

Cheers!
Dave[/COLOR]

He also cancelled the deal in which I was gifting him ivory - the luxury went obsolete for him last turn since he researched industrialism.

Along with Shoot researching industrialism, Darrell and NoSpace both nabbed computers. My tech spreadsheet just keeps getting more and more depressing.



On the bright side, Communism came in at the beginning of the turn:



Time for a revolution! One that would make Karl Marx proud.



The financial advisor screen after revolting into State Property:





My income at 100% gold went from +937 gold to +1182 gold, a change of +245 Not including extra food from workshops and +10% production in all cities.

I just now need to remember to configure my cities' production to multiples of ten if possible.

End Turn.

[oledavy]

Not a very exciting turn this time around, sorry to say.

[SIZE="3"]Turn 161[/SIZE]

I came out of revolt this turn, and ran 90% science to polish off democracy. State Property did absolute wonders for my GNP. One turn running max gold can now support almost three turns of 100% research. The problem is that my max research is significantly less than Darrell or NoSpace's.

No techs fell worldwide this game, but NoSpace is one turn away from finishing fission.

NoSpace got a free spread of Confucianism to Kiev this turn, more gold for their shrine

Thanks to all the new land and pop, I am about to surpass the 3,000 mark in points. I grew from 264 pop to 274 at the conclusion of the turn.

Graphs

Score:


GNP:


Mfg:


Crop Yield:


Power:


End Turn.

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 162[/SIZE]

So, the save was delayed for a day, but I was actually rather glad of it. It gave me some time to consider and rethink my position.

I spoke to a friend about the future of this game, and he pointed out that if I do want to fight my way out of my losing position, I need to go all out. If I'm going to go down, I'm going to go down swinging. So, no more growing cottages and researching worthless techs like democracy.

The plan is to research electricity, industrialism, flight and military science, turn off research, and then save gold for the rest of the game to upgrade units.

Other than the towns around my Wall Street/Oxford capital Jerusalem, I am paving over every cottage, hamlet, village and town with a workshop, or watermill if the tile is riverside. Most economic building builds have been canceled, ones near completion are getting finished up; and the build queue for every city (with some exceptions) is now:

1. Dike
2. Factory
3. Coal Plant
4. Barracks/Drydock
5. Jail
6. Units





Plan is to leverage my huge production into tons of military, particularly tanks and marines, drafting like crazy in the meantime.

For the upcoming golden age, I'm revolting into:

Police State
Nationhood
Caste System
State Property
Theocracy

When I get industrialism in ~8 turns, I'm canceling NAPs with Darrell and Nospace and initiating the 10t cooldown. Depending on how things develop, I'll go after one or both of them, ideally with Shoot. Hopefully it won't be too late to give them a run for their money.

I went about this all rather poorly, basically switching horses midstream. I started out with an economic recovery and built lots of gold and science buildings. Now I'm switching over to a production focus and all out workshop spam. This comes after paving over a lot of workshops and putting hammers into banks and universities. However, the way I see it, better late than never. I stand no chance of winning the game going the current route. Going all out military I have marginally better odds, but more importantly, it'll be a fun war to fight

As for the turn itself, I labeled all the tiles getting paved over, and set my workforce to turning mine and Rego's continents into workshop central.

I went 100% gold for this turn, and put the research overflow into electricity. Three granaries were whipped to completion in ex-Incan cities (correctly, before the food box was halfway full - thanks Novice! ) and I started the drafting cycle back on my continent, conscripting three infantry.

Darrell got fiber optics on his turn; no other techs fell worldwide. NoSpace is in bureaucracy for some reason...

I switched my EPs over to Darrell, mostly because I don't like him having research visibility on me.

I spread Buddhism to a 27th city - only 7 more to go - and hit Shoot up for 1 gpt.

Let's go bash some heads.

aragon:

End Turn.

[oledavy]

I finally got the turn back yesterday afternoon. Went ahead and decided to jack up Darrell and NoSpace's paranoia and slow down those spaceships.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Novice & Spaceman,

This is a formal notification of the initiation of our 10 turn NAP cool-down. I have just played t163, so I assume that 172 marks the last turn of the cool-down? (I can't remember which player the turn flips with off the top of my head, and the forums are down, so correct me if I'm mistaken)

Dave[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Darrell,

This is a formal notification of the initiation of our 10 turn NAP cool-down. I have just played t163, so I assume that 172 marks the last turn of the cool-down? (I can't remember which player the turn flips with off the top of my head, and the forums are down, so correct me if I'm mistaken)

Dave[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Yes that is how I understand it. No space is last in the turn order.

Darrell[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]I take it back apparently shoot wraps the turn...

Darrell[/COLOR]

So wait, is it t172 or t173? I'm confused.

[COLOR="Yellow"]The NAP is effective through t172, and is over for t173.

Darrell[/COLOR]

Okay, I gotcha.

Sent off an email to Shoot appraising him of the situation.

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Shoot,

I have just initiated my 10 turn NAP cool-downs with both Darrell and NoSpace. I am workshop/watermill spamming every tile, turning off research after industrialism, and building nothing but military for the rest of the game. You're welcome to join in if you so wish, if both of us cancel NAPs, I'd bet it would slow down those spaceships a bit.

Dave[/COLOR]

Got a rather disappointing reply:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Good luck man. At this point though I just don't have enough interest in the game to want to spend the time required to go through another war. Maybe that will change, but at least from now I'll hold off I think.

Shoot[/COLOR]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Oh, it also might help you to know that Nospace has 4 great scientists (yes, four!) sitting in his capital unused, so be aware he can quickly bulb things. I am starting to get EP city visibility on him, so I can try to keep you informed of his troops (although with airships I suspect you'll be able to scout just fine anyway).

[/COLOR]

Without Shoot joining the war, my chances of being able to do anything to stop those spaceships drop from 1% to .0000001% If it's an issue of simply not wanting to devote the time to another war, I'm going to reply to Shoot and see if he'll build military for me, or at least do something else to aid the cause...



That's the spirit kid!

The Plan

Unless I'm presented with an amazing opportunity, I won't be declaring war on either NoSpace or Darrell on turn 173. Worrying about when and if I declare war should slow down spaceship production a tad and prompt them to churn out an army of units when they'd rather be building infrastructure.

Also of note is that in theory, neither knows that I cancelled my NAP with the other, and am just gunning for them. So I may be able to play that to my advantage.

I expect that by the time I get enough forces together, the spaceships will have been launched. I plan to stop them by building to huge landing forces with the goal of razing both Brazil and Capital to the ground to recall the ships.

Plan A

1. Take a coastal city.
2. Use commando tank(s) to blitz inland and burn the capital to the ground.
3. Celebrate

This is by far, my best shot. I have been keeping my GG's hidden in an East Indiamen. When I switch back into theocracy, I'm producing a pair of 7xp tanks from Edessa to attach these guys to. I'll then either split one to each landing force or dedicate both to stop one spaceship in its tracks.

This plan is a longshot at best, as I expect everyone to be well aware of PB1. I hope here that one of these things will happen:

1. NoSpace and/or Darrell will not remember PB1.
2. NoSpace and/or Darrell will not consider the possibility of me having commando units.
3. NoSpace and/or Darrell will not defend against the possibility of a commando tank (attacking with blitz).
4. NoSpace and/or Darrell will not anticipate me attacking with two commando tanks.

In the event they remember and account for all four of those possibilities, there's always Plan B!

Plan B
1. Take a coastal city
2. Advance whole army inland
3. Take capital
4.

In the event the commando tank plan fails, I move to Plan B and advance on the capital. This has an even smaller chance of success than the commando tanks, but hey, it's not like I would have anything to lose at this point by trying.

This whole suicide operation needs a snappy name (since I like names so much). Anyone out there care to contribute one?

As for the turn itself:

The Apostolic Vote came up, I voted for myself.



Darrell completed the Three Gorges Dam.



I pushed my Great Person in Constantinople and went into starvation to get him done in one turn.



Virgil, a Great Artist, was born in the city at the end of the turn.

I drafted three more infantry this turn, making sure I have a least a couple of these guys in all my border cities with Darrell.



Between airships and espionage, I have visibility on all of NoSpace's cities and all but one of Darrell's.

So, time for a military report.

The Egyptian Armed Forces




The Indian Armed Forces




I expect to see these grow quite a bit in the coming turns.

End Turn.

[Tatan]

This whole suicide operation needs a snappy name (since I like names so much). Anyone out there care to contribute one?

Well, I don't know how snappy it is, but Operation: Shoot the Moon seems appropriate on a number of levels. No matter what you call it, good luck! It's good to see someone go out on a bang.

[DaveV]

Operation: Going Commando?