The Haunted Forest: Mardoc puts the Sidar to the test.

[Mardoc]

Turn 52 was a very good turn indeed.

First, we've discovered copper! Amusingly, we moved so it's in neither BFC - but we'll still put hooking it up on a moderately high priority for the workers. Needs to happen before we research Bronze (which probably should come next after Kilmorph?).

Then, our first Shade settled down to some serious moneymaking. He's only worth 7 gold/turn, it appears, not the 9 that Iskender suggested. Is this an EitB change, or am I missing something in the interface? Or was he just wrong?

Anyway, here's the before:

And after:

That net 12 gpt change is due to 7 gpt, +50%, plus rounding up the priest's half gpt, plus -1 gpt unit maintenance. That latter factor needs to be changed, of course; we need to replace him and more.

Our second Shade was born, but is apparently unable to settle down just yet. We'll ask him again next year if his itchy feet have calmed.

Meanwhile, next to Asteroids sat a lone goblin. Our unpromoted warrior ran out to squish him, and got to 4XP in the process. No more unpromoted fighting units should appear in the rest of the history of the Sidar, if we do this right.

In foreign news, we discovered that Serdoa has an unpopped Epic lair! Tempting to pop it ourselves - but I suspect he'd take that as a cue to run out and kill the newly revealed scout. He ought to be able to manage that in 3 turns, so we won't do it.


After appropriate city maintenance (including firing both a Priest and a Sage in Asteroids ), here's what our empire looks like. I did make sure to let Asteroids grow into the new Dereptus, so that next turn it can immediately start spamming military for us.

[Mardoc]

Well, at least the Great Engineer was exactly as we expected:


I'm a little frustrated - there are at least 5 opportunities this turn to attack out of Asteroids for XP without having to risk counterattack, and we can't use any of them since we're short on units. I couldn't quite figure out a way to 1-turn a warrior here, either. Presumably we'll be able to improve that with either a 2nd engineer or once we can manage to improve the lands.

I suppose we'll get a bunch of bounty hunter gold IBT. Or maybe some of the barbs will do the pause thing, and we can collect some XP in the coming turns. We're solidly on top in Food and GNP, and also solidly on bottom in Power - it's definitely time to mass produce some warriors.

Looks like I forgot to post Serdoa's reply, but there's not much to it:

[COLOR="Lime"]Hi Mardoc,

nice to meet you. It really is a huge map and apart from Selrahc I haven't met anyone till now.

As for deals I think you are right, there is not much to discuss right now. Maybe when we all finally got some barb cities. I certainly intend to go for them soon.

Kind regards,[/COLOR]

Overview:



Forward to Kilmorph! And to a field army! We just need about 15 more turns to have a force capable of withstanding Serdoa - copper warriors and axes ought to manage.

[Iskender]

Congratulations on your first Shade!

He's only worth 7 gold/turn, it appears, not the 9 that Iskender suggested.

In my calculations I assumed that the +1 food from GM would be used to feed half of a merchant specialist. I planned to have 4 merchant slots available (and eventually had), so the first eight Shades effectively made 9gp/t, but you're right that raw gold output of a Sidar GM is 7.

[Thoth]

Two wanes, an Academy and the Brewery by t53. :hat:

Looking good so far.

Note that Pacman can grow a turn early if we maximize it for food.

Building nothing but warriors (Pacman finishes growth and Hunting Lodge first) until WotEM should give us 4/5 additional warriors per city which should be enough to keep our tiles free of barbs. We'll take some attritional losses, but that should give us a nice core army to start leveling up both for Waning and for combat use.

Good news on the Copper. Bronze warriors/axes are going to make our life a lot easier.

After WotEM: AH then Bronze? Gets us visibility on the Horses plus cows/sheep (we'll want the health soon as well as the tile yeilds ) plus Training Yards/Axes and Bronze warriors.

[Mardoc]

In my calculations I assumed that the +1 food from GM would be used to feed half of a merchant specialist. I planned to have 4 merchant slots available (and eventually had), so the first eight Shades effectively made 9gp/t, but you're right that raw gold output of a Sidar GM is 7.

Ah, thanks. This is what I get for just skimming your thread rather than reading it in detail. I guess it's reasonable to say one food is approximately worth 2 gpt when you can directly convert it over.

Note that Pacman can grow a turn early if we maximize it for food.

I suppose it's worth it. It's just hard to work a 2/0/0 tile

Maybe...maybe if I abort the mine for now and cottage that tile, I'll feel more comfortable about it . Don't really want the forest hammers speeding the hunting lodge ahead of growth, after all, and we can finish the mine next turn.

This barb dodging and priority shifting means I'm accumulating quite the queue of partially finished worker actions . Hopefully the Conquest fueled warrior swarm will let us finish them all off.

After WotEM: AH then Bronze? Gets us visibility on the Horses plus cows/sheep (we'll want the health soon as well as the tile yeilds ) plus Training Yards/Axes and Bronze warriors.

I think Bronze should come first. It's true we want the cows and pigs, we definitely need the health and the tile yields aren't bad either . But...our limiting factor is being able to sustain workers that far from the city walls. I don't think we're really going to be able to do that with non-Bronze warriors, even if we have oodles of them.

Plus, Serdoa now knows we exist; we may have successfully misled him on distance, but he's still Tasunke. And there's also presumably kill teams to worry about in the near future, and even the potential for expeditions to start popping dungeons and lairs. I think we're courting hubris to continue with just econ tech.

Still, if we're more effective with mass produced CII warriors than I'm expecting, then I'll be happy to reevaluate at the end of WotE. And in any event those should be our next two techs, probably followed by HBR to unlock Mobility. Or maybe followed by a beeline to Warfare (or maybe it's MilStrat?) to lock in Form of the Titan.

[Thoth]

I suppose it's worth it. It's just hard to work a 2/0/0 tile

Maybe...maybe if I abort the mine for now and cottage that tile, I'll feel more comfortable about it . Don't really want the forest hammers speeding the hunting lodge ahead of growth, after all, and we can finish the mine next turn.

Oh. I must have been looking at the previous turn's save. At that point we could have swapped a forest hill for a grass forest for two turns and grown/built the Hunting Lodge at turn earlier (HL completes with the help of the chop....note that we do NOT want to chop any more forests until we get some more health).

As it is, it's not worth working a 2/0/0 tile for. We certainly don't want a cottage on that tile. A farm post Construction and maybe a workshop post Sanitation/Smelting are what we want on this tile.

This barb dodging and priority shifting means I'm accumulating quite the queue of partially finished worker actions . Hopefully the Conquest fueled warrior swarm will let us finish them all off.

Yeah, we should be able to get some work done in a few turns. We should be able to push out ~8 Warriors before WotEM comes in (at which time we'll want to be building Temples of Kill'em'Orph to pay for those units). 10 level 3 warriors (including the two already on the board) will be enough to keep us relatively barb free (and racking up the xp ). We'll have some attrition losses, but the survivors will be stronger.

I think Bronze should come first. It's true we want the cows and pigs, we definitely need the health and the tile yields aren't bad either . But...our limiting factor is being able to sustain workers that far from the city walls. I don't think we're really going to be able to do that with non-Bronze warriors, even if we have oodles of them.

Plus, Serdoa now knows we exist; we may have successfully misled him on distance, but he's still Tasunke. And there's also presumably kill teams to worry about in the near future, and even the potential for expeditions to start popping dungeons and lairs. I think we're courting hubris to continue with just econ tech.

We'll have Bambi on the board a few turns after RoK is in, which will help our military (a St 6 Hero + Enchanted Blades for the Warriors). Pacman should be able to build him in around 4 turns after the Thane arrives from Asteroids (3? turns travel time?).

AH will show us the Horse situation as well as (hopefully) getting two powerful tiles improved. It should only be about a 3/4 turn tech by that point so it's not a huge diversion from Bronze.

If we're still feeling the pinch from Barbs or Serdoa's power starts to climb, then Bronze first for sure. Otherwise I think we're better off with AH first (which we'll need as a pre-req for HBR).

I'd like to pick up Writing before HBR (for some nice cheap Philo Libraries) if the in game situation allows it.

Still, if we're more effective with mass produced CII warriors than I'm expecting, then I'll be happy to reevaluate at the end of WotE. And in any event those should be our next two techs, probably followed by HBR to unlock Mobility. Or maybe followed by a beeline to Warfare (or maybe it's MilStrat?) to lock in Form of the Titan.

MilStrat/Philo/Warfare should be in our near to mid term plans. After Writing/HBR though. More mobility + cheap Libraries will help us both militarily and economically.

I like the notion of building FotT though. If we get a shot at it, Pacman can build it very quickly with access to Copper + God King.

[Mardoc]

Played the turn quick while I was home for lunch; maybe I'll be lucky and see it again today.

Highlights:

• The barbs in the south all just stared at the walls, so we got 4 more XP onto the warrior. Maybe that'll continue? Up to 9 in range to attack anytime they want, I hope a Drill4 CIII archer can handle that if they come.
  
• Didn't get to the workers fast enough, so they finished chopping; therefore moved Pacman to max food so it could also grow in 1. Warriors up next.
  

Any chance I can get you to cover this game, too, while I'm gone? I think Selrahc normally sends you the save so logistically we should be in good shape.

[Mardoc]

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]Hey Mardoc, it looks like we have contact as of this turn- seems one of my scouts ran into an invisible something or other of yours near the Remnants of Patria.

Feel free to hit me up on chat sometime if there's stuff you wish to discuss, otherwise pleased to meet you

-Bob
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Silver"]Glad to have contact. I am thoroughly confused at the mechanism,
though - I spotted Serdoa's units several times but only officially
had contact when I saw his culture. Yes, there is a scout over by the
Remnants at the moment; continue west maybe 5 tiles and you'll find
Serdoa. I think we're lucky he didn't spot the Remnants before he settled!

I don't know that there's a lot worth discussing now. Certainly I
don't want to run a road to Raider lands for trade, which leaves the
question mainly at war or peace. And frankly, I'm not convinced that
anyone can bring a force scarier than the barbs yet, or for a while.

Google chat is blocked at work for me, but I'm generally on it in the
evenings (~6-11 pm EST). If you need me urgently, though, e-mail is
best.

- Mardoc[/COLOR]

This suggests that the save is moving right along!

Provisional guess - the code for contact only looks for 'see invisible', not the more direct question of 'can you see this particular unit'.

[Thoth]

Played the turn quick while I was home for lunch; maybe I'll be lucky and see it again today.

Highlights:

• The barbs in the south all just stared at the walls, so we got 4 more XP onto the warrior. Maybe that'll continue? Up to 9 in range to attack anytime they want, I hope a Drill4 CIII archer can handle that if they come.

Our Archer has -20% St from Light, +30% From CG 1, +60 % From C1->C3, +25% Archer inna City, +25% Fortify and +20% Cultural defenses. Total bonus: +140% Str. Our Archer has an effective strength of 12 and has 4-7 first strikes, against strength 3 units it will take no damage most of the time. 8 at once might get in a hit or two, but they're looking like another 8 (9 if we get a first strike in at 60% odds) xp and 16 gold.

Didn't get to the workers fast enough, so they finished chopping; therefore moved Pacman to max food so it could also grow in 1. Warriors up next.

Meh. Not a big deal. Tip for the future: When you're doing pre-chopping and don't want to complete the chop until later, cancel the worker's actions before hitting end of turn. It's a PITA if you have a bunch of workers to click on and hit Cancel, but it lets you fine tune your chops without having to try and chase down the workers before their actions process.

Any chance I can get you to cover this game, too, while I'm gone? I think Selrahc normally sends you the save so logistically we should be in good shape.

Sure. I suspect we won't get (m)any turns in, but Selrahc has been sending me the saves so NP playing. I'll be a bit slow at times.

I send the save to Bob?

[Thoth]

This suggests that the save is moving right along!

Provisional guess - the code for contact only looks for 'see invisible', not the more direct question of 'can you see this particular unit'.

I've no clue how the contact mechanics work.

Cool that we have contact with Bob though.

Let's get together with Bob and dogpile Serdoa.