GvG Build & Discussion - Split Training

[Lurker Wyrm]

Add more KDS?

And get rid of what?

What's with you and paragons eh?

Ranged, near-warrior damage and armor with energy management and better support skills.

They can work in such situations, but are oh so much better with 4-5 physicals

That's a rather limited view... Unless you're doing r-spike or something, running 4-5 physicals is a pretty bad idea. I don't even like doing that in PvE...

P/E
Spear Mastery: 12 (11 +1); Motivation: 12 (10 +1 +1) Leadership: 8; Air Magic: 6
Gale, Ballad of Restoration, Song of Restoration, Swift Javelin, Blazing Spear, Anthem of Flame, Mending Refrain, Signet of Return

P/W
Spear Mastery: 12 (10 +2); Command: 12 (10 +1 +1); Leadership: 8 (7 +1); Tactics: 9
"Watch Yourself!", "Stand Your Ground!", "Make Haste!", "Brace Yourself!", Angelic Bond, Spear of Lightning, Swift Javelin, Signet of Return

E/Mo
Water Magic: 12 (10 +1 +1); Earth Magic: 10 (9 +1); Energy Storage: 9 (8 +1); Protection Prayers: 9
Ward Against Harm, Freezing Gust, Blurred Vision, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Ward Against Foes, Ward Against Melee, Aegis, Res Sig

Mo/E
Protection Prayers: 14 (12 +1 +1); Divine Favor: 12 (11 +1); Healing Prayers: 6
Divert Hexes, Reversal of Fortune, Signet of Devotion, Gift of Health, Protective Spirit, Dismiss Condition, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Aegis

Mo/E
Healing: 14 (12 +1 +1); Divine Favor: 12 (11 +1); Protection Prayers: 4; Air Magic: 5
Healer's Boon, Heal Party, Orison of Healing, Infuse Health, Holy Veil, Dismiss Condition, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Storm Djinn's Haste

This one's more defensive than the others and doesn't really have any damage, but it's going to be hard to kill.

The more I think about it, the more I think we should just run the build from the first post and just have the flagstand monk run BL with 14 df and 12 prot and the second team's monk run ZB. Yes, we'd have to play more defensive and possibly give up ground and fight close to our base; or, if need be, give up a morale boost.

[Hawkmoon]

Yes, we'd have to play more defensive and possibly give up ground and fight close to our base; or, if need be, give up a morale boost.

Wait a sec - I thought the whole point of this exercise was for us to learn to control the flagstand while in a split situation?

By all means, let's try something new - but it ought to be something that we think will work!

[Lurker Wyrm]

The goal of the exercise is to learn split tactics. Unfortunately, that means you're going to have to accept that it occassionally means the main force is going to have to play defensive (i.e. giving up ground) so that the second team can do its job. Just going to the flagstand and trying to force control there is not going to work. I can pretty much guarantee that as soon as the ranger on the base team takes a couple pot shots at the opposing team's GL, they'll send people back, which will allow the flagstand team to push forward. That will take a few minutes to happen though, since the base team has to take out archers and knights (and figure out how to deal with whoever gets sent back at first) before it can safely approach the GL.

What I like to use on Mel is Faithful Intervention (158 heal @ 16) and Illusion of Weakness (126 heal @ 6), both as an Enchantment damage booster and self heal.

Both of those skills are fine for PvE and maybe even RA, but in GvG there's not much use for them. The only time your health really drops below 50% is during a spike. Now, as a dervish, you're a rather low priority target for spiking because you've got high health and decent armor (and if you're in Melandru's form you're an even lower priority due to the condition immunity) which makes skills that only activate at low health somewhat useless. It's not that you won't get spiked, that's going to happen sooner or later; it's just not going to happen enough to validate dedicating any skill slots to it. Oh, and running Mysticism at 16 is a no-no for GvG. Dervishes are a primarily offensive character, which means you want the weapon attribute as high as it can get, meaning it gets the superior. It's a little backwards from what you expect in PvE where dervishes and warriors are primarily meat shields.

[KingOfPain]

Oops ya, I misread you suggested myth@16 while it's supposed to be 13. Still not not bad with 134@13. I only suggested them because of your initial concern that the Der is a little vulnerable.

KoP

[Lurker Wyrm]

Ok, so here's what I've decided on. Take it as you want.

D/W
Scythe Mastery: 16 (12 +3 +1); Mysticism: 12 (11 +1); Wind Prayers: 7 (6 +1)
Avatar of Melandru, Wearying Strike, Victorious Sweep, Mystic Sweep, Heart of Fury, Harrier's Grasp, Rush, Res Sig

Me/Mo
Domination Magic: 14 (12 +1 +1), Fast Casting: 10 (9 +1); Inspiration: 8 (7 +1); Healing Prayers: 6
Mantra of Recovery, Energy Burn, Wastrel's Demise, Power Drain, Shatter Enchantment, Shame, Diversion, Res Chant

E/Mo
Water Magic: 14 (12 +1 +1); Earth Magic: 6 (5 +1); Energy Storage: 9 (8 +1); Protection Prayers: 9
Ward Against Harm, Deep Freeze, Freezing Gust, Blurred Vision, Water Attunement, Ward Against Foes, Aegis, Res Sig

Mo/E
Protection Prayers: 14 (12 +1 +1); Divine Favor: 12 (11 +1); Healing Prayers: 6
Blessed Light, Reversal of Fortune, Signet of Devotion, Infuse Health, Spirit Bond, Dismiss Condition, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Aegis

Mo/E
Healing: 14 (12 +1 +1); Divine Favor: 12 (11 +1); Protection Prayers: 4; Air Magic: 5
Healer's Boon, Heal Party, Orison of Healing, Heal Other, Protective Spirit, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Storm Djinn's Haste, Res Sig

R/Mo
Marksmanship: 16 (12 +3 +1); Expertise: 9 (8 +1); Wilderness Survival: 10 (9 +1); Protection Prayers: 5
Apply Poison, Burning Arrow, Savage Shot, Distracting Shot, Natural Stride, Mending Touch, Troll Unguent, Res Sig

N/A
Curses: 14 (12 +1 +1); Soul Reaping: 13 (12 +1)
Dash, Reckless Haste, Price of Failure, Enfeeble, Suffering, Icy Veins, Shadow of Fear, Res Sig

Mo/A
Protection Prayers: 13 (11 +1 +1); Divine Favor: 12 (11 +1); Shadow Arts: 7
Zealous Benediction, Reversal of Fortune, Dismiss Condition, Holy Veil, Protective Spirit, Signet of Devotion, Dark Escape, Return

Well, there you have it. Not sure how well it'll work but we'll find out tonight, won't we? Can make tweaks and whatnot between matches.

Oh, just a quick note about the N/A. Don't put Shadow of Fear and Reckless Haste on the same target, please. The Shadow Of Fear is there in case you need to defend against an attacker and Reckless is still recharging (Reckless + Price makes a good NPC killer).

[DamadmOO]

The build of the N/A has been changed quite a bit today. Me, Wyrm and Fox have been doing some gank practise and we noticed that the build above has not enough damage output. The build we are using right now is:

N/A
Death Magic: 14 (12 +1 +1); Soul Reaping: 11 (10 +1); Curses: 9 (8 + 1)
Dash, Discord, Enfeeble, Parasitic Bond, Shadow of Fear, Suffering, Rotting Flesh, Res Signet

I think that Fox did slightly modify the R/Mo build as well tho i am not sure what he made of it :P

[FoxBat]

While water magic is good, and makes discord spam somewhat easier in 8v8, I wonder if we are going to have enough offense now. I'd probably take trident over ward against harm at least. A variant on the angelic bond para ( drop make haste, add anthem of flame or gfte, drop swift javelin for agressive refrain) is a midway we could sub in.

[FoxBat]

I still don't like ward against harm (angelic bond! You know you want to! ) , but it turns our our flagstand team needed the defense, since we weren't able to force large splits very often. I ended up adding Res Chant to the R/Mo over sig so I could recover people lost in an enemy base, also used it to get Vort up after he was DP'd out and we went on to win that match.

If we tune the necro a bit I think it's possible for us to get max degen between him and my apply poison. (He already has defile flesh and suffering, though this is not so useful for killing archers.) In that case we might be better served with cripshot on the ranger instead of burning arrow, which can snare a flagger trying to escape and protect our split monk from enemies, as well as quite a boon to the main group, all while buring that cripple under poison. To achieve our extra degen against NPCs, vile miasma might work, although the 15-second recharge is long. I might try experimenting with moo again to come up with something good vs the npcs.

[Lurker Wyrm]

You said that with a monk around, Unguent wasn't needed, so swap that out and put Pin Down in.

Angelic Bond is fine, but the last time I suggested it you said the build was too defensive.

We also need to add in more KDs. We somehow wound up without any in the build (*mumbles something about Fox's inexhaustable nitpicking*) which was somewhat problematic.

One thing we need to work on for defense is Aegis chaining. Both a monk and ele have it, so they need to do a small bit of communicating when to put it up so they don't collide.

[DamadmOO]

Today i saw eF use a split build. They lost both their matches tho maybe there are some interesting things in their build.

R/Mo
natural stride
burning arrow
apply poison
troll unguent
savage shot
distracting shot
mending touch
res sig

W/A
dash
healing signet
signet of malice
you're all alone
frenzy
server artery
gash
final thrust

E/A
windborne speed
mind shock
res sig
GolE
Lightning Orb
Lightning Strike
feigned neutrality

Mo/A
holy veil
spirit bond
zealous benediction
reversal of fortune
return
dark escape
dismiss condition


W/E
healing signet
bull's strike
shock
rush
devastating hammer
heavy blow


A/W
feigned naturally
res sig
burst of aggression
twisting fangs
horns of the ox
shadow prison
black lotus strike
black lotus spider

Rt/Mo
shadowsong
pain
weapon of warding
mend body and soul
purge signet
displacement
flesh of my flesh
wanderlust

Mo/A
protective spirit
dark escape
shielding hands
zealous benediction
return
dismiss condition
reversal of fortune
holy veil

Me/E
Glyph of Renewal
Shame
Res Sig
drain enchantment
shatter enchantment
gale
energy burn
power drain

As you can see this are 9 builds. The A/W was replaced by the Me/E during their second match.