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[SPOILERS - PBEM 17] Shoot the Moon - Pacal II of the Ottomans

yep vote for dave.
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Lurkers please don't give your opinions or guidance here. Let StM make his own desicion.
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But he specifically asked for our opinions. We aren't typing spoiler stuff here.
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I would ask if you're having fun continuing the game. If you are and you want to play things out then you shouldn't vote for him. If you want to get it over then this is an out.

But then also consider: does the idea of oledavy coming out of this war as a "winner" appeal to you? I use winner in quotation marks because I'm sure everybody would recognize that this kind of AP win is dubious. And if darrell and novice are going to reload and play amongst themselves with AIs after the fact, then which "victory" really counts? I could talk myself circles here smoke ; let's just stick to whether or not you want to keep playing the game
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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I'm ready for the game to be over. I have no chance to catch up to space even if I wouldn't get dogpiled by building apollo. I'd like to see Darrell and Nospace space race it out regardless just to know who would win, but that's up to them.
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A fun little diplo exchange with Novice:

Quote:Hey Shoot.

Did you vote for Dave in the AP elections last turn? We'd rather not
accept any cheese city gifts from Darrell if we can help it.

Quote:Even if I were to say I didn't, would you really take that risk? (I'm actually curious to know if you would take that risk, don't take that as a sarcastic reply)

Quote:I don't know, I'd still like to hear your answer though. smile Obviously
if you say you voted for Dave I'll be inclined to believe you.

Quote:Well since I'm interested to see if you'd take the risk, I'll go ahead and say I didn't vote for Dave.

I'm honestly interested to see if they take the risk, but don't really want to outright lie to them either. I expect to see Russia be gifted when I get the save back.
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I read your thread first because it was only four pages smile.

Shoot the Moon Wrote:I expect to see Russia be gifted when I get the save back.

It was mind control what made us do it!

Darrell
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Shoot the Moon Wrote:Oh man was I tempted to vote for Dave for a diplo victory. Would have been a hilarious end to the game, but at the same time I feel like it wouldn't really be an acceptable way to end the game, so I didn't. I'm half way tempted to vote for him, send Darrell the save, and then like a day later send him the real save where I don't vote for Dave just to see his reaction...

This was the post that struck me most (other than the one Darrell posted).
And on the sixth day, god created Manchester.

[SIZE="1"]Played: PBEM13 (China), PBEM17 (India)
Helping out: PBEM23 (Egypt)
Dedlurked: PBEM15 (Ottomans)
Globally lurking: more or less everything else[/SIZE]
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Alright, I'm way too busy these next couple of weeks so I'm afraid I won't get much of a chance to read everyone else's threads for a long while frown, but I'll at least go ahead and post my thoughts on the game from my limited perspective (for reference, I have read both the beginnings and ends of most of the threads, but that's about it):

First off, the whole ending. As Spaceman's quote points out, I was rather torn on how to vote. There were a couple of things (in no particular order here) that influenced my decision. The first was I was honestly ready for the game to be over. It seemed to an extent like I was just being dragged along for Darrell's and Nospace's personal sandbox game. I think part of that was my fault for not expressing I would have preferred to go AI clearly enough, but well too late now (I had sort of vaguely touched on the subject with Darrell but in hindsight not clearly enough). The second was that it seemed for the last bit like it was sort of Darrell and Nospace vs. Me and Dave (and that secret MDP only confirms that), so I was more willing to see Dave win at the end of the day than either of the others. The final and I think most important part was that I didn't expect the vote to actually go through, but expected my voting for Dave to force Darrell to gift Russia without me having to lie and say I voted for Dave. Dave had talked to me and said that eliminating the culture in Russia might give him the chance to raze it, so I was obviously willing to help out there. Spaceman, I hope that helps clarify how my vote also falls under the RB-try-to-win ideal -- I honestly expected my vote not to end the game but to help my chances to win in game. We all now how that turned out of course lol (that's not saying I'm in favor of continuing though, I was equally happy going in if you guys neglected to gift the city and the game ended; the game ending was a fine outcome for me).

In regards to my other thoughts on the game, I think this sadly sums up the game for me:

Shoot the Moon Wrote:Guess who the dumbass who forgot to revolt to slavery while his first settler was moving was? smoke That's what I get for barely paying attention to this game and not doing any simulations I guess.

My lack of simming and inattention to this game up until the Rego war put me irreparably behind. I really only started to seriously pay attention once Dave's frequent diplo and planning forced me to (thanks for that though Dave). If there's one thing from my thread to take away from this game I think it is that if you are in a game against good opponents that sim stuff out, you will lose if you don't do it yourself. Plan for that time commitment before you sign up for a game.

From that bad beginning on I was essentially in catch up mode, which most evidenced itself in my need to go to war with Rego for land and cities. That in turn left my infrastructure and tech too far behind to be in a position to join Dave in his later wars, and then that was that. Playing catch up in Civ, even with a 3v1 dogpile and someone gifting you an entire navy, is not easy!
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Actually that quote jumped out at me and I didn't want to say anything, but your observation is spot on. You were in a game where everyone was looking for the smallest edge. The only reason I bothered was in reaction to PBEM13 and knowing what I was up against. Its not something I typically bother with, I prefer to play by "feel" even if its less optimal smile.

Darrell
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