[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[oledavy]

I'm pretty sure the battleship would just move onto the stealth destroyer without attacking it. That's what happens with Nox Noctis units in FFH anyways...

WB tested it, you're right. Unless you have a unit that gives visibility on the invisible unit, you cannot possibly uncover or attack it.

[DaveV]

Revised possible Diplo Message to Darrell:

[Profane]

[dazedroyalty]

Revised possible Diplo Message to Darrell:

I don't post much anymore but had to say, this awesome!

[Commodore]

I don't post much anymore but had to say, this awesome!

I hate it when the remix is more popular than the original. :thumbsdow

[oledavy]

Spoke to Spaceman, and he isn't happy.

novice.spacemanmf: afternoon/morning
me: morning
novice.spacemanmf: how's it going?
me: Novice or Spaceman?
novice.spacemanmf: space
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: pretty good, staying with a friend in New Orleans
yourself?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: at work
:-(
still weekend tomorrow[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: true
so, your post in the UN thread
I don't know really how to respond
did you guys fail to stop the vote?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: not even tried, but i doubt it's possible
i just heard that you were going for a diplo "victory" and haven't been motivated to open the save since it seems in such poor taste[/COLOR]
me: I don't even know if Shoot voted for me to be honest, last I spoke to him he was mulling it over
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: yeah he said to me he had a decision to make - i didn't ask what it was, though
but i don't think he has much motivation for the game to continue so i'd be surprised if he didn't vote for you[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: got the dialogue box last turn, spent a day stewing on it and asked my lurkers
really unsure myself, since it is such a cheesy victory condition
but the overall lurker consensus was I should go for it
to quote Seven:
100% go for it. If it works it's totally your opponents' fault for not
a) Razing the AP city,
b) Avoiding having a city of the AP religion or
c) Having enough AP votes to prevent it, or making sure that one player always has enough votes alone that the option can't come up
... any of which were easily available to them. The AP victory is a silly mechanic but it's not banned. Just don't be disappointed if they figure out a way to stop it somehow.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: well i have to say i disagree
it's purely a single player mechanic and is meaningless in the context of multi player
you don't achieve a win in reality, it's just a way of ending the game
i will view the game as undecided rather than anyone was a winner
not banning it was simply an oversight presumably because no-one thought anyone would actually do it[/COLOR]
me: fair enough
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: and you won't even win diplomatically if we never send the save on
so there[/COLOR]
me: we don't even know if Shoot voted for me, if I won diplomatically, this could all be a rather academic argument
novice.spacemanmf: yes i appreciate that
me: in the event that he did, we can always keep going and the two of you can continue eviscerating my empire, I have no problem with playing on
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: it's the thought that counts, though
i thought you were having fun
the last few moves you've made have been good
very impressive in fact[/COLOR]
me: or we could reload if you and Darrell feel strongly enough about this before I call for the AP vote
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: yeah darrell did a lot of moves
i doubt he could replay them[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: I still have the 1780 save
so he would only have to replay 1785
at any rate, we have options on that front
are you saying you don't want to play on simply because I would consider an AP victory?[/COLOR]
novice.spacemanmf: sorry on phone
me: it's all good
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: i don't know the mechanics for playing on - do we get "just a few more turns"?
in which case i don't mind playing on and you can take your moral victory if you like - i suppose that's possible
i just don't wnat the game to end cos i'm having fun![/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: sorry, internet wigged out
would imagine you are, burning all my cities :P
but, fwiw, have been enjoying it too
been a challenge, but it's been enjoyable and I've been trying to make my thread helpful to anyone else who is fighting modern wars on a water heavy map
just saw an opportunity and took it
would Novice know the "just a few more turns" mechanics?
I thought it was you could play on infinitely[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]novice.spacemanmf: well yes in SP
not sure about PBEMs[/COLOR]

Spaceman is a bit peeved, big surprise there. Darrell is grousing in the PBEM29 tech thread.

I'm am a little bit pissed at Spaceman to be honest. I lost six core cities in one turn and still kept playing. Now he's holding the save hostage and saying that the diplo victory was not banned because "no one thought anyone would actually do it."

EDIT: @Spacemanf when you read this after the game. I understand why you're upset, and I would be too in your shoes. I just don't understand why you're getting mad now - before we even know if I won a diplo victory or not. Just pass the save on, let's see what happens, and we'll go from there. You guys have played a magnificent game. Even if I did pull out a religious win, it doesn't detract anything from that.

[Kyan]

If you pull this off, you become an RB legend.

Yes, AP victory should have been banned before-hand, but it wasn't. It's not hard to deal with. The Great Lighthouse should have been banned too... (yeah, i know).

[Lord Parkin]

I have to say his argument - or at least part of it - is not at all convincing.

it's purely a single player mechanic and is meaningless in the context of multi player
you don't achieve a win in reality, it's just a way of ending the game

You could say exactly the same thing about Cultural victory. Someone could be ploughing away towards Domination with an untouchable military, and due to inattention, out of the blue a third party could pull a Cultural victory over them. Is there any doubt that if the game had continued indefinitely, the Cultural player would have been absorbed into the Domination player's empire? Not at all. Does this mean their victory was meaningless and doesn't count? Not at all.

Think back for a minute to PB4. Imagine I'd signed a huge NAP with Sullla/Speaker and they got their chance to play for Culture while I massacred the rest of the world. If I'd then somehow forgotten about their potential for victory or neglected to do anything about it, and they eked out a Cultural victory when I owned half the world and it was only a matter of time until I owned the remainder... do you think that victory "wouldn't count", or would be "meaningless"? Do you think many people would look at it that way?

This situation is essentially the same in principle, and arguing that your victory (should it happen at all) somehow wouldn't count is - in my opinion - somewhat poor sportsmanship. If I had been one-upped by a Cultural victory in the middle of my rampage in PB4 due to inattention, you can be sure that I'd be annoyed (mostly with myself), but I would never say the victory didn't count.

On the other hand I can see the point about having fun and wanting to play on - but that can be done anyway after your (possible) victory, whether by playing on from there or reloading and playing on from before the vote. You should be allowed your chance to (potentially) claim a surprise victory first though - it's only fair.

[oledavy]

Received this from Darrell:

[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=996
Dave
you should probably read htis
since it might not be obvious to you what happened
feel free to chat me up
I hope you take it in the spirit it was intended [/COLOR]

Which led to this chat:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: Can you explain to me what exactly you did?
If I read the IT post from a couple days ago right, you replayed your turn differently?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: Yeah
I thought our was obvious but then the lurkers were confused[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: I thought so too, but I wanted it to play out without getting into a fight in the tech thread
I take it the most notable thing was gifting Russia to NoSpace[/COLOR]
Darrell: Basically you won AP diplo
me: Shoot voted for me?
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: Yeah...you won AP diplo, basically
Oh
No idea
I was asked for a second save with the Russia gift, and didn't see any harm in it...when you are playing a shadow game why not play a double shadow game?
The lurkers went apeshit calling me a cheater and poor loser
I'm hoping you'll realize that was not my intent at all [/COLOR]
me: So, your purpose in stopping the AP vote was just to keep the game going?
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: No
I fervently want the game to end
I was mostly just responding to a request[/COLOR]
me: alrighty, fair enough
Darrell: No hard feelings?
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: honestly, a little peeved at the moment, but give me a night to sleep on it and I'll be over it
it doesn't help that NoSpace took three cities
killed a dozen units aboard their transports[/COLOR]
Darrell: Ok
me: and you destroyed my stack in Constantinople
Darrell: Throw a fit if you want, I Judd want the game to be over
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: meh, I'll leave it to my current post in the tech thread
throwing fits never made anything better[/COLOR]
Darrell: I mean obviously the game should be over
me: I gotcha
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]welp, let me catch up with the NoSpace
and we can try and bring this whole mess to a close[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: Please do so
For the love of god
Just saw your post[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: just edited it out
doesn't do any good, now that I'm appraised of the situation[/COLOR]
Darrell: I guess there was an assumption shoot was going to vote for you
me: and you've probably taken enough hell from the lurkers
Darrell: Eh
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: Assumption yes, but unless he revealed it in his thread
no one knows[/COLOR]
Darrell: True
Novice told me shoot told him he was not voting for you
me: hmmm
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: But no real way to be sure
That would surprise me[/COLOR]

I am honestly infuriated right now.

It doesn't help that t182 was nothing short of a military catastrophe for me to boot.

I have no desire to play that save right now, and I don't think I will want to continue this game. I'm going to sleep on it first and see how I feel about everything in the morning.

In the meantime, sent out the following emails:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Shoot,

Did you vote for me in PBEM17?

Dave[/COLOR]

And to NoSpace:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]We need to talk regarding PBEM17.

Dave[/COLOR]

Really sad this game is ending this way.

[oledavy]

[COLOR="Green"]Yeah, why?

Shoot[/COLOR]

So, now I know what you lurkers have probably known all along. Now to hunt down NoSpace and try to resolve this mess. Shoot is ready to end the game.