The best defense is a good offense. The best offense is a good economy. The best economy skimps on defense...
Zen, I have none.
Zen, I have none.
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[SPOILERS] Ceiliazul and Timski go To War: Brennus of Spain
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Alright, First let me say, I'm nervous. I'm humbled. I'm honored. All those things because in a game that was supposed to be balanced by lurker leader/civ picks, I think I was put right on par with Dazed and Commodore.
Brennus doesn't suck. With SPI and CHM, I'd call him mid range of the leaders here. (Ramses and Mansa better, Hammy and Sulieman worse) Spain is... underwhelming. Conquistadors are the latest UU of the bunch, and Citadels are worse. A niche building made nichier with their bonus, and which offer their benefits over an extremely short time frame. Those benefits are great though! With Chm and a barracks, 3-promo siege units will (Literally!) rock the house. Spiritual: From there, things start looking up. As in, toward the heavens. We're spiritual! Worthless in the ancient age, but if we survive we'll be swapping the caste for border boosts and GP bursts. Banking units for Theocracy/Vassalage promos... and maybe get some mileage out of peace civics in this always war game. You know what would be even better? If everyone else wasn't also spiritual!  4 out of 5 SPI leaders will make it harder to get a comparative advantage out of this trait. It will also increase competition for the synergy woners. I'm excited to try Spiritual, I wish it wasn't in such a homogenous gang. Charismatic will help set me apart. In contrast to the SPI, I have CHM all to myself. Triple promoted horses and siege sound good. This is also my ONLY economic boost, helping vertical growth somewhat. Stonehenge is a huge draw, to give a further economic boost.
The Plan!
With Prince/Flat, REXing is the order of the day. It's still AW, so lots of warriors will be ordered up. Early choke points will be prioritized even with some sacrifice of economy. If those early choke points can also block some land, so much the better! Prince/flat should be pretty forgiving there. As Chm, I'll be working toward the ever popular CharHenge. Also, as one of the 2 teams starting with Mysticism, I'll be gunning for an early religion. If I manage both those feats, I'll have a base happy cap of 7! Either one will also have the effect of helping consolidate land gains with border pops and cultural defense. Beyond that, just have to see what opportunities appear on the board. Summary:
Ded-Lurker Checking In!
 A little music to set the mood: Demons Run When A Good Man Goes To War When do we start killing stuff? oledavy Wrote:Ded-Lurker Checking In Excellent, welcome OleDavy. I know you're spoiled on the map, so I won't ask for settling advice. As for killing stuff, that will depend very heavily on said map, which I have not seen. Plako offered to send something by this weekend, so I'm waiting patiently. Ceiliazul Wrote:Excellent, welcome OleDavy. I know you're spoiled on the map, so I won't ask for settling advice. As for killing stuff, that will depend very heavily on said map, which I have not seen. If this is true, you should check with the other players before lurking. Being spoiled on the map is usually considered to void lurkerdom. I got booted from dedlurking Lewwyn in FFH14 just because I was part of the pregame discussion in the map thread before any maps were actually posted. (Because I forgot Lew had asked me to dl him.)  I don't personally care one way or the other, but just noting.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
Also intending to dedicated-lurk. I've seen nothing.
Some opening thoughts: Spiritual's lack of anarchy allows constant switching between Caste and Slavery, which in turn works best with a food-orientated economy. Naturally, a poorly timed Farmer's Gambit is bad for defense. Charismatic's main early benefit is happiness - +1 per city, and another +1 from a Monument. Again something in favour of early food. Stonehenge's free Monuments are especially beneficial for Brennus. But are we facing anyone with Industrious? Both those early "advantages" are potentially rather situational, especially favouring a map with food resources and few luxuries. If almost everyone else is Spiritual (is there a definitive list of picks yet?), the game is interesting: We can perhaps assume that everyone else is working to the same food logic, and exploit that by, essentially, doing the opposite. Unfortunately we have no other early advantage to draw on, so perhaps should assume that someone that does have such an advantage will draw this conclusion instead. With a Mysticism start, tendency towards a food/GP-ish economy, and Spiritual's Temple bonus, early religion is rather attractive. Religion is shunned as a diversion, and in part it is. But it is also the basis of quite a decent defensive economy (assuming religions are founded in the core, as early religions normally are). Naturally early Stonehenge and religion are going to hurt early expansion. But with no specific REX advantages in our traits, perhaps that's not such a bad move. I dislike Spain in single player: Conquistadors gain a bonus against melee, when they tend to be facing mounted units like Knights. Citadels give a minor upgrade to buildings one normally doesn't need to build. That said, Citadels have an interesting synergy with Charismatic's military bonuses - highly experienced siege units, which are among the hardest units to upgrade, but also among the longest lasting. Overall, I'd favour early food, 'henge and religion, with warfare coming much later. But I'm also the kind of person who consistently leaves military too late. timski Wrote:Also intending to dedicated-lurk. I've seen nothing. Hey, happy to have you!* I'll do my best to keep your ded list in the win column... it'll be a tough go here though.* Exclusive ded-lurk graphics offered as the game goes on.* For a limited time only, naming scheme ideas are wide open too! timski Wrote:Spiritual's lack of anarchy allows constant switching between Caste and Slavery, which in turn works best with a food-orientated economy. Naturally, a poorly timed Farmer's Gambit is bad for defense. Yes, if we can survive to Code Of Laws, our traits will start to pick up steam. timski Wrote:Charismatic's main early benefit is happiness - +1 per city, and another +1 from a Monument. Again something in favour of early food. Stonehenge's free Monuments are especially beneficial for Brennus. But are we facing anyone with Industrious? Why especially for Brennus? Unfortunately, we've got the following opponents:
Oh, and no one is sated by CRE trait.* So yeah, maybe some Stonehenge competition there! timski Wrote:Naturally early Stonehenge and religion are going to hurt early expansion. But with no specific REX advantages in our traits, perhaps that's not such a bad move. True that we have no early expansion traits.* Still, we have to keep up.* If we start next to Dazed (IMP) I'll get nervous! Likewise if we start next to AGG Kyan, who can bring early pressure more easily. timski Wrote:I dislike Spain in single player: Conquistadors gain a bonus against melee, when they tend to be facing mounted units like Knights. Citadels give a minor upgrade to buildings one normally doesn't need to build. That said, Citadels have an interesting synergy with Charismatic's military bonuses - highly experienced siege units, which are among the hardest units to upgrade, but also among the longest lasting. Sounds like we're on the same page... we just have to survive until our bonuses can kick in! 
* I kept looking for the small print, but I didn't see any.
Quote:Why especially for Brennus?Sorry - my words were misleading: Any Charismatic leader benefits equally, but ours is called Brennus. On a historical note, Iberian Celts are "Celtici". Even though Brennus is associated with lands slightly further north-east, the civ might better take that name than "Spain". On settlement names I have no original ideas - the closest I got was wine names - my first thought on combining the words spirit, charisma and Spain. I assembled a list of civs and leaders from the original game thread, thus:
Some quick thoughts on the competition:  Kyan: Hammurabi of Ethiopia - Traits: Aggressive, Organized. Techs: Hunting, Mining. Uniques: Oromo Warrior, Stele.Aggressive is perhaps most useful when rushing without an early unique unit - late game it has no discernable advantage. Assuming a heavily war-based game, there's some synergy with Organised, since the most warlike civcs are generally the most expensive to maintain (such as Vassalage). But my gut feeling is that Organised is only decent on maps where a civ spreads unevenly. Techs are balanced - Hunting bad, Mining good. Stele replaces Monument, but only to grant +25% to culture - and how important is culture in an always war multiplayer game? The Oromo Warrior replaces Musketman with lots of first striking. Overall, Kyan has nothing to gain from peace, or diverting away from early military techs for religious techs. Ergo, I don't see them as a competitor for Stonehenge. Dazed: Suleiman of Arabia - Traits: Philosophical, Imperialistic. Techs: Mysticism, The Wheel. Uniques: Camel Archer, Madrassa.Philosophical naturally points towards a GP economy, Imperialistic towards faster expansion and defending home lands. Neither sit well with early aggressive warfare. Mysticism and Philosophical make an early religion a distinct possibility, but Dazed may have a similar problem to us: The need for food and metals techs at the very start. Camel Archer replaces Knight, gaining a small chance to withdraw. Madrassa replace Library, with the ability to work Priests in addition to Scientists - frightening synergy with Philosophical, if Dazed can find the food. Give Dazed the Pyramids, and their tech rate will be terrifying. Overall, a serious competitor for religions, who needs to be attacked early by someone. GingerEagle: Hannibal of Greece - Traits: Financial, Charismatic. Techs: Fishing, Hunting. Uniques: Phalanx, Odeon.Financial needs no introduction, but tends to enforce a Cottage economy, which can be vulnerable to pillage wars. Charismatic a mirror of Brennus. Starting techs are weak. Phalanx replaces Axeman, as a combined Axe-Spear - hard to counter early. Odeon replaces Colosseum, primarily with extra happiness. Very hard to know how GingerEagle will play: Phalanx suggest an early rush, but their traits suggest building an economy - the result may involve sitting behind a Phalanx wall while spamming Cottages. Overall this feels like a strong pick. Commodore: Ramesses II of Japan - Traits: Spiritual, Industrious. Techs: Fishing, The Wheel. Uniques: Samurai, Shale Plant.Spiritual again, and being the only Industrious player should give Commodore first choice on most of the Wonders. Techs are rather situational - indeed, with so many civs starting With Fishing, one wonders if we might all get coastal starts? Samurai replaces Maceman, with extra First Strikes. Shale Plant replaces Coal Plant - rather late for a fairly pitiful 10% hammer bonus. Commodore doesn't have an especially obvious early strategy, except to hoard Wonders (and food, like almost everyone else). But as the only competitor whose games I have watched, I have little doubt that they will play the optimistic aggressor. For that reason alone, they need to be treated with caution. In summary, I agree that there is a lot of competition for Stonehenge from Dazed and Commodore, with Dazed also rather likely to try for an early religion. Kyan, and to a lesser degree, Commodore and GingerEagle, are likely early aggressors. I'm rather concerned that we'll be caught in the middle, with no clearly overwhelming advantage. That implies that our advantage is *flexibility*. Your final point - "seize opportunities" - may be the best one! |
