Mod Ideas (open to all)

[Tasunke]

So I thought I could start a thread for mod ideas in general, for either BTS or FFH and their multiple derivatives.

There are some threads like this at Civfanatics, but its a different type of crowd here, so I think a new source of input is always nice.

If nothing else, this will be a nice location for me to share various mod ideas to the community. And if others wish to join me, please be my guest.

[Tasunke]

I am currently working on two mods, one for BTS and one for FFH2, both with a more single player focus (unlike my earlier FFH mods, which were designed for a certain MP variant called "RP game" ... and if you think NaP's are hard to agree on, "RP in Civ" is even harder XD)

Still, for the forseable future I think I'll be talking about simple changes to FFH2 that could work for any FFH2 mod. I'll try to keep to one change per post, or a series of bullet points if they are all relevant.

[Tasunke]

One thing I would like to see is for undead units to not cause war weariness since they do not cause military happiness.

I don't mind Drown causing WW primarily because of their religious significance in the lore (but their waterwalking mechanic isn't half bad either)

Primarily, this is for skeletons. Due to the weakness of the spawn skeleton mechanic ... I mean you'd be better off building swordsmen than death1 adepts. I mean the only reason to build death 1 adepts is to get death 2 mages ... I dunno I guess I feel like if "spawn skeleton" is in the game it should be worth it to focus on.

Another unit this is for is the Diseased Corpses. While the unit wouldn't ordinarily need much of a boost, I figure it could help make up for its weakness to Destroy Undead (as it comes a bit later than Drown and Pyre Zombies).

Also, in the classic Order/AV standoff, the AV's lack of happy deserves a bit of "no WW" boost here and there.

For Spectres and Wraiths, they don't create WW anyways due to the way the code works.

For liches, being magical units WW is perfectly fine ... and I plan on making them 'true immortal' anyways. (I think Magister Cultuum thought of it first)

Valkyrionn and Co figured out how to make the Skeletons have 0 cost, but I feel like at least giving them 'no WW' would make them a little more useful.

I've experimented with giving them -1 gold cost, but its barely balanced under normal conditions, and with puppet summons it would get just ridiculous. So if anyone knows a non-DLL way to get 0 cost on a unit, I'd really like to know .

So there it is, that's my initial Spiel on the Undead of Erebus.

[Tasunke]

Entropy 2 and Law 2 summons.

Ever think Pitbeasts and Einherjar are a bit ... unspectacular?

I've toyed with the idea of making Pitbeasts a permanent summon, or allowing Ritualists to summon pitbeasts .... but that just creates a new problem (especially the latter).

Instead, I think just a few simple additions to the units themselves could make them a bit more ... sensible.

for the Pit Beast ... 1 first strike and the Cannibalize promotion

for the Einherjar ... guardsman and demon slaying promotions (or at least guardsman)

For the Einherjar, I felt FFH2 as a whole did very little to encourage tier 2 spells other than Spectre and Fireball ... and in rare cases Poison Blade and Flaming arrows.

Then I noticed that FFH2 had hardly any source of the Guardsman promotion.

I also noticed that, while Law 3 is cool, it is certainly no 'I win' button. (for the record, Im thinking of boosting Entropy 3 a bit, as its even weaker than pitbeasts imho)

Alternatively I could make Einherjar a bit stronger and switch Einherjar to Law 3 and Valor to Law 2 ... but I feel that goes beyond a tweak and the unit would have to be re-balanced all over again (similar to the original Chaos 3 summon, the original Pit Beast)

as is, I feel a summon that stays around extra time after each battle should stay at tier 2 magic level ... as no one wants to face against 20 fire elementals or their equivalent. I mean, sure I could remove that from the Einherjar, but then the unit would be something completely different, and might even need a new name.

as it stands, I think making pit beasts stronger (cannibalize is a good start) and giving the Einherjar the Guardsman promotion would make things a bit more interesting.

// an alternative to Guardsman is something that WONT stop assassins but would STILL guard first against anything else ... useful to protect ppl from the dangerous position of having a wounded super unit that still defends first, eh?

[Tasunke]

For long have Sheaim players pondered at the expensive costs of the Planar Gates, and for long have modders changed it. Here are a few of my thoughts.

Planar Gate (either half hammer cost, or +100% production with Entropy mana, or +100% production with Spiritual and give Spiritual to Os Gabella to replace Industrious).

more than making the Gate easier to get to (with some combination of Spiritual, entropy mana, and possibly making it cheaper altogether) ... I also want to make it more useful.

While the appocalypse isn't supposed to be "useful" to the Sheaim, they have been known to take advantage of their alliances with various demon lords in order to make it ... worth their while, to an extent. Therefore, I am not content to sit back and make the Sheaim one of the civs with the LEAST reason to bring on the appocalypse. (part of this is the current uselessness of the Planar Gates, other than the occasional Succubus or Mobius Witch at the high opportunity cost)

Upgrading the Planar Gates is one of the best bets of making the appocalypse (not all that bad).

therefore, as a start I'd say the planar gate could give +1 health with Razorweed, +1 health with Toads, and +1 happy with Gulagarm.

[Tasunke]

as for Planar Gate summons ....


get rid of Chaos Maurader entirely

Tar Demons -> move to Walls

Pit Beasts -> Move to Veil Temple ('replaces' Chaos Maurader)


Balor? -> AV shrine, Grimoire, and Ragnarok (a fun idea, but with all the other changes, hard to say what the balance of it is)

[Tasunke]

A) gives manes the "escape" spell (so random manes didn't have to get stranded on the war path)

B) Have Hyborem create +1 AC per living combat.

C) Grant Hyborem a chance to create manes after combat (similar to how werewolves create new werewolves). Refer to point A.

D) boosted hell terrain yields (+1 'food' on burning sands, so that improvements like cottages can be built there, +1 commerce on broken lands)

I had toyed with the idea of having Hyborem capture demons through combat ... but I think it would require some DLL work as non-living units are normally immune to capture.

[HidingKneel]

Things that I think should go into a FFH mod (I guess these are more MP balance suggestions, rather than SP "this would be cool" suggestions):

1) Fix Keelyn. Puppets and summoner should not stack.

2) Take financial away from Hannah, Flauros, and Rhoanna.

3) Make Os-Gabella spiritual again, so she's a valid alternative to Tebryn.
I like your planar gate idea, there should be more incentive to build those.

4) Aristocracy should lose its maintenance bonus, and republic should be boosted (so that each civic in that column has its niche).

5) Vampire spellcasting should be nerfed. Maybe just don't give them Death I and Body I for free. Maybe take away Death altogether.

On your ideas: I don't think skeletons need a boost. Right now they're the only summon you can get with adepts. They're situationally very useful. If anything I'd say Death I is one of the stronger adept spells.

[Tasunke]

I agree with you completely on Aristocracy (and Os Gabella)

I will talk about the Vampires on a later post. Something about giving Vampire units the possibility to be "individually" stronger, but less of an immediate force multiplier. Hopefully this should make the race less 'op' in MP and more interesting in SP.

I may take a second look to Republic and Theocracy ... personally I think Theocracy should come earlier (perhaps Religious Law)? And chalid should come later (theology? he IS a luridus after all, and doesn't require a lv 6 priest either)

not sure about puppets and financial though ... I mean I really like financial, though I guess I could see it upgrading 3 commerce tiles instead of 2 commerce ... Something to think about, at least.

[Tasunke]

Vampires ... both the unit of "Vampire" and the promotion 'Vampirism.'

first lets look at Vampirism.

What it used to be

+5% healing
+10% strength


What I think it should be

-25% holy damage
-25% fire damage
heal while moving


Original Vampire unit

5 str
death 1
body 1
channeling 1 + 2


Proposed Vampire Unit

5 str
channeling 1 + 2


why? Well, from a coding perspective, we can simply ignore Enchanted Blade's need for Channeling 1, so we can remove Channeling 1 from Bambur, and then we are free to allow any spells to be learnable by melee, and have it relate ONLY to vampires

Therefore, allowing Death, and Entropy mana on Vampires is somewhat of an improvement imho (I originally thought allowing Shadow would be good too, but as its a palace mana ... we'd see Vampires giving their stacks blur from turn 1 (so to speak) ... so instead I reduced it to only Death and Entropy because that would require going out and getting the mana)

also, I added some new "toys" for Vampires to play with

Hunger promotion (requires Combat 3 and Vampirism, MELEE ONLY)-> allows a spell called "BloodLust" which gives +1 move, 'blitz', and +10% heal after combat. Only affects the caster, and counts as an ability instead of a spell ... unless units can use a spell and ability on the same turn. I'd rather them have to decide between Bloodlust and Spectre/Pitbeast for that particular turn. I want it to be mutually exclusive, yet unaffected by Arcane Lacuna (similar to a Dragon's roar and breath fire abilities)

Vampiric Strength promotion (requires Combat 5 and Vampirism, MELEE and ARCANE) -> +1 strength, +10% vs melee

Vampiric Toughness promotion (requires Cover 2 and Vampirism, MELEE and ARCANE) -> +20% vs Archer units, ignore defensive strikes, +1 fs chance

Vampiric Agility promotion (requires Drill IV and Vampirism, MELEE and RECON) -> -1 movement cost, ignore first strikes

Hunter's Instinct promotion (requires Hunger and Vampiric Agility, MELEE) -> 'marksman' effect


below are idea's I've been toying with that I haven't tested yet

allowing a Vampire Lord to turn himself into a "bat" (so he can temporarily fly himself over oceans and mountains ... at the cost of strength of course, which is why he'd need to turn back into himself if he wanted to fight) -> if nothing else, allows for late game SP fun in making the "mop up" faster

allowing Vampiric units to learn the escape spell at some point ... I'm thinking (requires Hunter's Instinct, Magical Resistance, Sorcery tech, and Entropy Mana)

Arcane Mastery 1 (new name needed) -> allows "plane-shift" spell (works just like escape, but is vampire only due to the requirements)

^- as you can see, 'Arcane Mastery' isn't a very good name for the promotion, but I can't think of a better one.

I'd be tempted to allow the creation of Arcane Mastery 1-3 promotions, allowing Vampires only the first one, and allowing all three to Amurite/Sheaim arcane units.